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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

I don't expect amazing things out of the gate, but I'm hoping this new design will make the camera even more flexible, silent, and more future proof... well as one can be in this age of technological explosions. But I'd love to see: future speeds that rival the Flex, record module separate from sensor module (for ease of sensor upgrade), and higher sensitivity ISO. As long as I'm dreaming, all in a compact system. Although I'm not sure what TSA will make of the word "Weapon" on the side of the camera... certainly not something I plan on putting on the carnet :) Oh, and built in motion mount sort of thing would be of course great.

And if those mini mags allow for future speed increases I'm ready to jump ship to the mini mags.
 
Jarred Land said:
heh heh dont throw them in a bin... Non-Weaponized Dragons will still be alive and well and we will still be selling them so the used market for those older SSDs will be healthy.....

And sorry you missed all the hints and heads up that I have given along the way over the last year about the media change.. Glad though that they have made you money :)
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All cool.
Looking forward to being blown away mate.
 
I feel there will be a second-hand market for any DSMC accessory including RED mags. Plenty of people will not be in position to upgrade and will be in line to purchase these.

(Ha, Jarred said the same thing while I was typing!)
 
I HATED THE QUE with the dragon upgrade! I wish they would just got back to Serial Number Epic-M first, then Dragon Carbon, then Epic-X. :-).

Jarred you know how to bring out the worst in all of us with all your innovation :-)
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes but the price doesn't actually go down, you just get an extra credit of the difference put back on your account. You can use that credit towards an early spot for the weapon upgrade @ NAB if you want, or on accessories etc.
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Does "of the difference" mean people who upgraded after the Dec deadline will potentially get a credit of the price increase to upgrade to Dragon? If I buy a Scarlet Dragon now, without upgrading my scarlet, would this make a difference moving toward Weapon. Thanks again for the heads up and I am anxious to learn more about what is in store with weapon.
 
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Tom Gleeson said:
Mark,

Just imagine if you had been shooting film the last four years and what that would have cost ! Having said that losing an investment in medis stings. I'll have to put the SSD drives in the same draw as my Red CF cards and Red drives. While extra DR, more sensitivity and speed would occassionally be handy I find its a rare occassion I exceed the Dragon camera's capabilities. I will need to see exactly what the upgrade is and its cost but so far the Red upgrade process has been cheap enough to make it a no brainer. I'm old enough to remember cameras being as expensive as exotic sports cars.
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We ordered a ARRI 435 ES and Arri 535 kits some years back, total was around $860k...(US / EURO Exchange rate at the time wasnt helping)
Then 911 happened and I stalled the order until I knew what the world was doing, then I started to hear rumours of the RED camera being developed which stalled me again.

Technically... RED stopped me blowing just short of a million dollars on cameras that had a serious useby date: So in the grand scheme of things, Ive got lots of spare change left over for upgrading. :)
 
Argggh - they don't make this easy! LOL

Wanted to go Scarlet to Epic trade-in to get on the "top track." Ran/running out of time, especially for both steps. Could quickly switch to Scarlet Dragon upgrade before NAB but a $12,500 UG vs. a brand new Scarlet Dragon at $14,500?

Leads to a question: If one buys a Scarlet Dragon outright, before NAB, are they on the Weapons track? And, as important, can that track (from Scarlet Dragon) lead to the same place (presumably for more money) in the future. Or, is one still stuck on the "Scarlet (Weapons) only" track?

Depending on those answers... does one buy a Scarlet Dragon now (and sell existing Scarlet) or just wait it out and go Epic for now and let things wash out in the future with the Weapons track? :emote_22_yikes:
 
Rome Will said:
So if you knew the hard date of no more conversions, why not tell us last year?
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This is a bit ridiculous and I know you are being polite but I am a bit offended by your multiple allegations in your post.

We didnt know the hard date of no more conversions last year.

We still don't know the hard date of no more conversions today.....

Which is why i havn't said one... its a moving target.

The timeline for customers to upgrade we could not forecast a year ago as it was not in our hands.

It was completely up to the customer and their finances and when they decided to take advantage of the offer. Completely unpredictable. Most people have upgraded. There are some stragglers, which seem to be upset now because they don't understand manufacturing and don't seem to ever want us to be able to make anything new.

This is driving me nuts. I'm done for the night with this topic we seem to be going in circles.
 
Terry having been down this route a lot earlier sell your Scarlet buy a new SD. The sums work in your favour that way.
 
Mike Garrick said:
Terry having been down this route a lot earlier sell your Scarlet buy a new SD. The sums work in your favour that way.
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Mike - I agree the Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon upgrade makes no financial sense, My only question now is whether I am still better off in the long run owning an Epic X for awhile before I move to Dragon then Weapon. I want to leave the best path open, and I am in no hurry. But, less than 60 days until NAB. tick... tick... tick...
 
Jarred Land said:
This is a bit ridiculous and I know you are being polite but I am a bit offended by your multiple allegations in your post.

We didnt know the hard date of no more conversions last year.

We still don't know the hard date of no more conversions today.....

Which is why i havn't said one... its a moving target.

The timeline for customers to upgrade we could not forecast a year ago as it was not in our hands.

It was completely up to the customer and their finances and when they decided to take advantage of the offer. Completely unpredictable. Most people have upgraded. There are some stragglers, which seem to be upset because they don't understand manufacturing.

This is driving me nuts.
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Jarred,

I'm not trying to drive you crazy. I appreciate your responses. Yes, I am one of those "stragglers"...but I, as others, were late to the party (again, yeah- that's a part of life). Three total camera brain purchases/upgrades at $10k a pop in less than 1.5 years would drive a consumer more crazy (I would think). I hope you read my two posts. I was sincere with them. I'm not just as a customer, or someone who want's to argue online- I had a Scarlet. I then upgraded to an Epic. I planned on upgrading to Dragon late this year. I buy your products. This is a niche market, and this is a small road bump. It'll pass. It's just hard to swallow that back in December '14 you didn't know you'd be at NAB '15 with a major upgrade that was only available to Dragon owners.

I believe in the brand. That's why I'm still here (in the forum) trying to make sense of this.

Last, you said the final conversion is a moving target- but NAB is an event with a fixed date right? I don't believe the conference jumps weekends...and the conversion from MX to Dragon (in order to get Weapon) has to happen before NAB's announcement...so wouldn't that mean there is a fixed date for MX-to-Dragon upgrades?

Again, you're the president of a major company and running the show. To be honest, I'm impressed you're up reading our comments and responding (especially on a Friday night). Thank you. But I'm a little guy. No endorsements here. Just debt and dreams...something that I think makes you work harder, and plan smarter. This announcement though, was a strong *left hook.

*see my first post
 
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Terry, if you can afford to go Epic Dragon and skip Epic, that's probably the best choice. If you can't, perhaps waiting and buying weapon outright might be fine too but I'm the type that rather have 1 awesome camera then more equipment and 2 lessor cameras.

I hate trying to sell a camera too. There's a lot of pain...everything from shipping cost, to ensuring payment, to low ball pricing. Then there might be the lack of demand and waiting. It's never fun in my opinion.
 
Jacobo Martinez said:
Maybe Red should start doing what adobe and other companies are doing, pay a monthly fee and get all upgrades for free! Why not?
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NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!! Don't get me started on Adobe's and Autodesk's subscription plans...
 
Rome Will said:
Jarred,

I'm not trying to drive you crazy. I appreciate your responses. Yes, I am one of those "stragglers"...but I, as others, was late to the party (again, yeah- that's a part of life). Three total camera brain purchases/upgrades at $10k a pop in less than 1.5 years would drive a consumer more crazy (I would think). I hope you read my two posts. I was sincere with them. I'm not just as a customer, or someone who want's to argue online- I had a Scarlet. I then upgraded to an Epic. I planned on upgrading to Dragon late this year. I buy your products. This is a niche market, and this is a small road bump. It'll pass. It's just hard to swallow that back in December '14 you didn't know you'd be at NAB '15 with a major upgrade that was only available to Dragon owners.

I believe in the brand. That's why I'm still here (in the forum) trying to make sense of this.

Last, you said the final conversion is a moving target- but NAB is an event with a fixed date right? I don't believe the conference jumps weekends...and the conversion from MX to Dragon (in order to get Weapon) has to happen before NAB's announcement...so wouldn't that mean there is a fixed date for MX-to-Dragon upgrades?

Again, you're the president of a major company and running the show. To be honest, I'm impressed your up reading our comments and responding (especially on a Friday night). Thank you. But I'm a little guy. No endorsements here. Just debt and dreams...something that I think makes you work harder, and plan smarter. This announcement though, was a strong *left hook.

*see my first post
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Ok.. i see where you are going sideways here.. you have a bit of info wrong. You do not need to upgrade Dragon before NAB to be eligible for Weapon.

You do need to upgrade to dragon before NAB to get the extra credit, the NAB price and to be able to make a Weapon reservation at NAB. Thats what i meant by " upgrade before NAB it will be worth it " .

You can upgrade to Dragon anytime before the the upgrade line transfers over in the summer, and then goto Weapon after that whenever you can until the weapon line eventually closes ... it just will cost you alot more money and your spot in line might be way far out.

This heads up is to save you money.. not to force your hand at anything or some weird blackmail attempt that we have been planning for a year :)


And yes... i know paying 10k over and over in a few years seems excessive..but to be fair, if there was no upgrade program and you just had to buy a new camera every time at full pop, you would likely have paid more than it costs for 1 other new camera that does much less.
 
I would encourage everyone to read the works of Ray Kurzweil, he talks about how technology is exponential. As the technology advances, the rate of advancement, advances (Theory of exponential Return).

In terms of folks being upset about upgrade paths and the deadline for Dragon upgrades, call a Sony rep and ask if they offer upgrades for their camera bodies. I would also encourage folks to call Canon & Arri and enquire about upgrade pathways. Their answer will be illuminating.

there are more cameras in the market place, we have choices, we can go with innovative tech or unimaginably cheep tech, you decide.

There will never be a be-all, end-all camera or media. Take a look at the history of photography formats From glass back negatives to 50MP digital sensors.
Storage media has gone from pen and paper, to solid state and experimental crystal based multidimensional storage.
The race never ends, never stays the same. Dont look back, keep looking forward.

Let's be happy with these bits of future information, lets be glad we can plan.

Can't stop the signal.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
These words are pretty scary.. What does "a lot more" means? I hope that Weapon will be as affordable as all Red cameras have always been..
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Of course. Context for that discussion.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes but the price doesn't actually go down, you just get an extra credit of the difference put back on your account. You can use that credit towards an early spot for the weapon upgrade @ NAB if you want, or on accessories etc.
Click to expand...

This is actually kind of cool. Thanks Jarred!
 
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