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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

I dont post as often as i used to, but this being such a significant milestone in RED's roadmap... well, I thought it opportune.

First off, thank you for the ongoing commitment to developing an all-world camera system. While it isn't the perfect match for every customer, the platform you've developed changed everything.

Owning a high-end cinema camera is such a personal experience. It brings with it the artists passion and creativity and sometimes, a certain perspective that allows some people to forget that the modular and upgradeable approach is not so different than purchasing a completely new system every couple of years. It basically is just plotting smaller distances between points on a Moore's law chart. RED allows its customers to upgrade more often staying within the same system. Most other companies have much broader paths and force customers into obsolescence much sooner.

The Dragon is such a great camera that it will remain a popular choice for years to come, much the same way certain film cameras and stocks were used for decades.

I appreciate REDs approach, and look forward to watching them mature more and more each year.
 
I think there will be plenty of Epic Dragon's as A camera still. I think the new body will open up the possibility for some higher frame rates, maybe higher resolution (not a priority in my mind), low light, and possibly a little more dyanamic range. But I think a big draw will be the form factor of the body and possibly full size xlr's, knobs, etc. at least thats my thinking. I hope its a mixture of all the above ;)

I'm on the fence in regards to upgrading so quickly as I just purchased Epic Dragon in November, but I LOVE having the option that RED so kindly provides us owners. Cheers to having the best at the top in Jim and Jarred :)

Nick Morrison said:
True, but they will also be a great way to continue to use 1.8" mags...

It wouldn't suprise me if some shoots see Weapons shooting on Minimags...and Dragons and Dragon Scarlets alongside them on 1.8" media...especially with so many 1.8" mags out there that may be dropping into used market, at even lower prices ($750 for 256?).
Click to expand...
 
Weapon's reliance on faster media on a Dragon platform suggests HIGHER DATA RATES...question is where/what are they being applied to?

1) Resolution? Red One Mx was 4.5k and Epic MX 5k. I think it's safe to assume then that Weapon may see a similar jump in resolution - maybe 7-8K? And perhaps a larger sensor too? I dont think Full Frame, but perhaps 4:3?

2) High Speed? My guess is Weapon has quite a bit of horsepower (even the name suggests it armed to the teeth!). Paired with Redcode 2, perhaps Weapon shoots 7k 200fps? 6k 250fps? 5k 300fps? 4k 500fps? 2k 1000fps?

3) New boards may also lower noise floor...clean at 5,000 iso?

4) Lower compression for almost uncompressed shooting when needed?

5) 1TB Super Speed Mini Mags?

6) Thunderbolt Readers?
 
I would probably have to give in and buy if those were the specs Nick ;)
 
Adam Johnson said:
I think there will be plenty of Epic Dragon's as A camera still. I think the new body will open up the possibility for some higher frame rates, maybe higher resolution (not a priority in my mind), low light, and possibly a little more dyanamic range. But I think a big draw will be the form factor of the body and possibly full size xlr's, knobs, etc. at least thats my thinking. I hope its a mixture of all the above ;)
Click to expand...

I think your predictions for Weapon are probably spot on...Im guessing a form factor more like Amira, but likely smaller...
 
ryan peters castañeda said:
This is a huge "heads up".
The carbon fiber bodies will be shipping first, does that mean that the Aluminum bodies are more like Q4/ end of year?
It's also safe to say that Dragon produces amazing images and will do so well in to the future.
Click to expand...

Its a good guess and yes Dragon is incredible... and it keeps getting better every firmware that comes along. Weapon takes Dragon and refines things inside and out.

But alas... I have said too much. Brent is gonna kick my ass for giving away way too much already.

This heads up is really is supposed to be less about Weapon ( my random photos probably didn't help keep it like that though, sorry, i got excited.) This is more about making sure everyone is on Dragon if they want to follow the future path.

A little peek on whats down the road so if you are on the fence you at least know that one path ends and another opens up.

I know it is always a commitment.. but its not a requirement. Weapon may be too soon for some of you that just got into your cameras and thats fine, I just wanted to make sure you guys were in the loop, as we are all in this together.

At any rate.. it was nice spending the night with you guys. It's been awhile. Now I gotta go be a good husband :)
 
I just need this new weapon upgrade :)

1: Some gram even more lightweight and more small size :) (RONIN like this)
2: More silent
3: MORE resolution, 65mm want :)
4: Getting to 500/1000 fps at 4k :) :)
5: Dual ISO. (This would be crazy, would also help in slowmotion)

Fire Chief, I am honest, I get scared dellle cards 512gb, if it breaks or something goes wrong lose a huge amount of data.
Would love to see minimags 128 or 256 gb, this allows more security and less data loss in case of breakage!
We will see these cards more small ?!
 
Jarred Land said:
Its a good guess and yes Dragon is incredible... and it keeps getting better every firmware that comes along. Weapon takes Dragon and refines things inside and out.

But alas... I have said too much. Brent is gonna kick my ass for giving away way too much already.

This heads up is really is supposed to be less about Weapon ( my random photos probably didn't help keep it like that though, sorry, i got excited.) This is more about making sure everyone is on Dragon if they want to follow the future path.

A little peek on whats down the road so if you are on the fence you at least know that one path ends and another opens up.

I know it is always a commitment.. but its not a requirement. Weapon may be too soon for some of you that just got into your cameras and thats fine, I just wanted to make sure you guys were in the loop, as we are all in this together.

At any rate.. it was nice spending the night with you guys. It's been awhile. Now I gotta go be a good husband :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for hangin' Jarred!
 
luigivaltulini said:
Fire Chief, I am honest, I get scared dellle cards 512gb, if it breaks or something goes wrong lose a huge amount of data.
Would love to see minimags 128 or 256 gb, this allows more security and less data loss in case of breakage!
We will see these cards more small ?!
Click to expand...

I have shot an "unholy" amount of footage over the span of a couple months onto MINI-MAGs, lots of them in fact. No issues at all. In fact based on that I in some cases would want a 1TB solution. However, I can certainly see room for a 256GB version for some.

The capacity shouldn't be a worry honestly. Also, I'm the dude who likes to fill up mags. Most productions during an actual shooting day tend to fill to a certain capacity and then DL at the DIT.

I've been moving a different way for my productions. I like filling up mags and dealing with data at a later time, but that's just been how my last 3 gigs have worked. And it's worked really well.
 
RED has to develop its portfolio. It's only good that it does.

And if Dragon (or MX) or whatever is "all you want", ten just stick to them. They won't become worse over time.

RED one M, released 7 years ago, is still an amazing camera as to imagery.
Nothing wrong with that.

That the loyality program is extended is a bonus to us all, which we can choose to use, or not.

I was planning on sticking to Dragon, but then (from Jarreds hints) it suddenly seems possible that the new body will have a larger sensor. Possibly 4:3 (hoping and praying) and maybe can accept lower compression at film and stills resolutions.

Now that is only good news.

One after-market product I could envision for the heap of 1,8" SSD's, would be if RED released a 16 (or 8) slot Thunderbolt cabinet, so we could RAID them and use them for post. That should make for a pretty fast temp/editing storage solution.

And if RED doesn't, maybe they will be ok that others do?

Glad to hear that things are evolving Jarred, and I think having a second look at the body-design (even if it stays small formfactor) is really smart.

Thanks

G
 
My observation has been that more human errors have occurred with more offloads. So I prefer to offload less often which means give me larger cards. I have never had a single error with Red Mags. My ideal situation would be to never offload on location if I could. Im cool with doing my own offloading if I have to, but man, there have times I have to leave it to others and they sure enough bugger things up :(
 
Weapon

Weapon

Hi,
After getting my Dragons lot of REDUSER like me were almost out of Reduser but announcement of 'Weapon' has again created the excitement.

Cannot wait for NAB .....

Harcharan
 
Nick Morrison said:
I wonder if Dragon owners can keep their Epic Dragon brain, and earn a credit/discount towards a brand new Weapon? Sounds like Dragons could make convenient B-Cams to Weapons...
Click to expand...

That is what I'm thinking. Epic Dragon as B cam and Dragon Weapon as A cam. Makes sense.
 
Phil Holland said:
I have shot an "unholy" amount of footage over the span of a couple months onto MINI-MAGs, lots of them in fact. No issues at all. In fact based on that I in some cases would want a 1TB solution. However, I can certainly see room for a 256GB version for some.

The capacity shouldn't be a worry honestly. Also, I'm the dude who likes to fill up mags. Most productions during an actual shooting day tend to fill to a certain capacity and then DL at the DIT.

I've been moving a different way for my productions. I like filling up mags and dealing with data at a later time, but that's just been how my last 3 gigs have worked. And it's worked really well.
Click to expand...


Yep Phil,
but!!!!!!!
are not forever.
Sooner or later it happens, and assures you that to be very unpleasant!
If I have 512 I'd like to use them to 512. It does not continue downloading every 200 gb.
I like the idea of having a big ssd and often do not remove it, but I'm always afraid!
I have owned 2 512 1.8 and both broken!
maybe I was just bad luck ehehheh




Probably never exist Mini Mag 128 and 256, weapon will fire faster and with more resolution eeheheh
 
Jarred Land said:
Its a good guess and yes Dragon is incredible... and it keeps getting better every firmware that comes along. Weapon takes Dragon and refines things inside and out.

But alas... I have said too much. Brent is gonna kick my ass for giving away way too much already.

This heads up is really is supposed to be less about Weapon ( my random photos probably didn't help keep it like that though, sorry, i got excited.) This is more about making sure everyone is on Dragon if they want to follow the future path.

A little peek on whats down the road so if you are on the fence you at least know that one path ends and another opens up.

I know it is always a commitment.. but its not a requirement. Weapon may be too soon for some of you that just got into your cameras and thats fine, I just wanted to make sure you guys were in the loop, as we are all in this together.

At any rate.. it was nice spending the night with you guys. It's been awhile. Now I gotta go be a good husband :)
Click to expand...


just one little question Jarred... will I be able to buy a dragon weapon right out the gate. Don't mind if it has to be a carbon dragon weapon. I just want to keep my Epic Dragon and get a 2nd camera.
 
Wow! Amazing to read all these posts for last two hours. See I was on a job Friday and missed all this great news. Must admit positive posts receive more attention and bitch posts are an afterthought, but that's just me. I am very excited to get in line for our new 'Weapon.'

Off to bed now as another job looms Saturday. I need money so can be 'armed' with our forthcoming toy, and trust me I don't like violence :-)

Until then I'll be saving and waiting to get impressed...Again!
 
luigivaltulini said:
Yep Phil,
but!!!!!!!

I have owned 2 512 1.8 and both broken!

Probably never exist Mini Mag 128 and 256, weapon will fire faster and with more resolution eeheheh
Click to expand...

Not wishing breakages on Phil or Bob but if they are unlucky enough to have just one failure I doubt they would continue to confidently fill mags so easily and/or leave set without downloading. I haven't had a failure with the minis myself but have seen a failure of a 1.8 mag that cost someone dearly.

Its a matter of WHEN not IF.

Most shoots for me are not high frame rate so filling every mag is not a concern - and if I do shoot high frame rate I`d use a high cap mag if needed. Personally Id like to have 4 or 5 low cap mags and one high cap. But 5 high/current cap mags are BIG BUCKS! Good to have options.

Smaller mini mags would be great for the safety conscious shooter who don't want costly unused space on their mags.
 
Exciting (and costly ;-)) times a head. Thanks Jarred, for the heads up. Very excited. We didn't upgrade our Epic-M, as we were lucky to get our hands on one of the BT Dragons around the time we were about to upgrade.
From the information I think we will keep our original Epic-M and upgrade our BT Dragon to Weapon, unless a big job comes up and make enough funds available.
Our exchange rate is almost 30% up from when we bought our Dragon, so it's a lot more expensive to upgrade than it used to unfortunatly. Fingers crossed it will change back in the coming months
 
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