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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

Jake Wilganowski said:
I think there is definitely some new cooling tech, probably some built in wifi, more fps, and better ISO sensitivity( why else would Jarred shoot at night)
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Exactly the improvements I would like to see in a new camera ;)
Better (and more silent) cooling, built-in Wifi (let's get rid of these external wifi modules !), higher ISO.
Let's see what they came up with... Damn, 2 more months...
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
I think there is definitely some new cooling tech, probably some built in wifi, more fps, and better ISO sensitivity( why else would Jarred shoot at night)

What I'm most curious about are all the accessories/modules for the current form factor
I suppose if they don't work there will be a big used market, especially when red starts selling battle tested dragons
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And maybe a Dragon sensor modification (Dragon +) with larger photosites for low light shooting. I think the changeable OLPF stopgap was deemed just that and that they have come up with a better solution for DR. Could explain the slowdown in getting the OLPFs out in a timely manner.
 
Since Many of us are playing the Guessing game - I'm going to go out on a limb here and put in some guesses:


1. I'm guessing This new camera is NOT an upgrade from a Dragon body to something else.

2. I'm guessing this new camera MIGHT have the MX Sensor in it.

3. I'm guessing this new camera MIGHT weigh 2 lbs. or LESS!
 
Isaac Marchionna said:
Yeah ummm...you don't see RED CF cards or RED Drives holding their value too well now do you? the 1.8" mag prices will fall. Hard.
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Dude, I went to a Band Pro open house two years ago... RDC gave out "info" on their gear ON the Red CF cards! That was kind of crazy to see!

Unfortunately, the 16GB cards they passed out won't format in ANY camera, other than the R1! (I tried!)
 
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Jarred Land said:
I know.. I always forget. Seems like such a great idea and such a courtesy to our awesome customers that nobody else does , but it always goes down a weird path of never being good enough. I would at least like to think that most of you guys appreciate it.

At any rate.. I just need to remember that I need to just stop posting and go do something fun when I find myself apologizing for people's unreal expectations or when I start yelling at people. It worked for Jim and I can tell it will ultimately work for me.
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I dont think you should let the opinions of "the johnny come lately" change who we are. We have been first and foremost a family, as well as a company, which fought together against all odds. We should never forget that the things like upgrade paths,the unrivaling customer service, and more is what sets RED apart from ARRI,SONY and other moster companies that dont have this business model. I for one have been in this family from the beginning and appreciate you, Jim,Kelly and all my other siblings...
 
Michael Dalton said:
I wonder what they say going through customs.

As exciting as this is, I really am curious to hear what we are getting excited about. As great as continuing to upgrade is, there are lots of factors to think about.

- Fast frame rates would be amazing for my line of work
- Bigger sensor would be better. I'm really interested in 65mm

Cons
- 6k is taking up insane amounts of storage.
- begin able to work with any higher res stuff is a bit of a nightmare as it takes editing companies time to catch up.

I'll likely do my carbon, but with think long and hard about my other cameras once we have the specs on what this is. I think it will be logical to either upgrade or sell my MX.
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The US has been pretty lackadaisical to deal with... However, traveling in and out of OTHER countries with a "bomb" has been tough! So much so that several countries wouldn't let me ENTER The country with a Bomb! I had to leave it behind! I've actually placed 'semi permanent' paper tape over the entire "bomb" wording... just to avoid issues I've had in the past. I've also semi-permanently mounted the EVF to an arm that the mounting plate somewhat 'covers' that entire side.

I was worried about buying the RDC wireless focus system BECAUSE of WMD... Therefore I was seriously considering the ET version instead.

Again, I think in the US, if you had a "Bomb," "WMD," and a "Weapon" I think you'd be safe because they are RATIONAL in their thinking and realize it's a marketing thing for a manufacturer... other countries? Who knows!
 
Yeah the biggest question mark for this is definitely the media. Jarred:

1) Should we buy side modules now or would that be a waste of money (aka we should wait for weapon side modules)?
2a) Should we buy media now or will Weapon come along with new mini-media options?
2b) Should we buy media now or will Weapon upgrades include a discount on media based on past orders (aka if you have bought 1TB of media in the past, get 30% off at NAB on all minimag purchases.)
3) Yay no more mini audio plugs, I guess that means we've finally got XLRs somewhere.


Re Scarlet MX upgraders... GO EPIC.

I've said it every single time and I still believe it as strongly as the first upgrade opportunity. Upgrades always have historically cost the same whether you're epic or scarlet. Once you are on the Epic track you get Epic upgrades. When you are on the scarlet track you only get scarlet upgrades for the same price as epic upgrades. For a one time Epic upgrade price every camera after that is substantially better for the *same price*. An alternate way to look at it is that the Epic upgrades only cost slightly more. For $13k if I upgrade 3x I get way better upgrades than for $10k 3 times. After upgrading to Dragon I got 6k at 100fps. If I had upgraded my scarlet to dragon I would have gotten 6k at 12 fps. Both upgrades cost $10,000 one gave me highspeed and low compression for greenscreen and one gave me less framerates and compression options than an MX Epic. Weapon will probably cost the same for Scarlet and Epic customers and I imagine it's safe to say that the Epic Weapon will be substantially more badass for that same amount of money.
 
BTW, the idea of being a "weapon"… : (The 1999 Apple Ad :o)

http://youtu.be/7Eb1yih5kNY

===========


Thanks a lot, Jarred, for the early "bread-crums" to follow RED to the next adventure. I'm digesting them currently… Thanks for the continuation of the "upgrade path"! I'm really grateful about it.


How will the image quality of the "Weapon" cut with current Dragon cameras? Too early to say?
 
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Well if Jarred says you should upgrade to the mini-mag, then i think it's pretty safe to upgrade to the Mini-Mag-Module right now. Come on, RED isn't the company that tricks you into buying something that gets replaced soon.

There is no real reason to assume the module will be replaced as it can handle highspeed. But there might be room for faster Mini-Mags... Just my 2c.

Don't try to get more details, it must be hard enough for Jarred to hold back all the great news. ;) I don't want to be in his position right now, after starting such a thread. Hehe.

Damn, the RED-excitement is back again. Can't wait.
 
I for one sincerely appreciate it Jarred with zero reservations or complaints.

Truly everyone needs to remember the alternative is NO UPGRADES...

For those who doubt, I feel you have absolutely shown your intentions clearly in how previous upgrades have worked, and while those without imagination may not have a clue about what's coming, it's pretty obvious to me. No, I'm not eager to spend another 10k, but if Weapon does what I believe it will, I'll be first in line lol.

*Thank you* for continuing the policy of taking care of your current owners, for defying "parental supervision" letting the cat out of the bag early so we can all plan better, and for the continued energy achieving next level capabilities that will propel the industry and our craft forward.

Kudos on "lowlight" success btw (whatever that means it must be good lol).




Jarred Land said:
I know.. I always forget. Seems like such a great idea and such a courtesy to our awesome customers that nobody else does , but it always goes down a weird path of never being good enough. I would at least like to think that most of you guys appreciate it.

At any rate.. I just need to remember that I need to just stop posting and go do something fun when I find myself apologizing for people's unreal expectations or when I start yelling at people. It worked for Jim and I can tell it will ultimately work for me.
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Gavin Greenwalt said:
Re Scarlet MX upgraders... GO EPIC.

I've say it every single time. Upgrades always have historically cost the same whether you're epic or scarlet. Once you are on the Epic track you get Epic upgrades. When you are on the scarlet track you scarlet upgrades for the same price as epic upgrades. After upgrading to Dragon I got 6k at 100fps. If I had upgraded my scarlet to dragon I would have gotten 6k at 12 fps. Both upgrades cost $10,000 one gave me highspeed and low compression for greenscreen and one gave me less framerates and compression options than an MX Epic. Weapon will probably cost the same for Scarlet and Epic customers and I imagine it's safe to say that the Epic Weapon will be substantially more badass for that same amount of money.
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Easier said than done. Many Scarlet MX owners couldn't afford an Epic MX to begin with or the jump to Scarlet Dragon, let alone the one to Epic Dragon.

Didn't it cost you $19K to go Scarlet to Epic Dragon? 6K @ 100fps cost $9,500 more than 5KFF @ 48fps.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
...

Re Scarlet MX upgraders... GO EPIC.

I've said it every single time and I still believe it as strongly as the first upgrade opportunity. Upgrades always have historically cost the same whether you're epic or scarlet. Once you are on the Epic track you get Epic upgrades. When you are on the scarlet track you only get scarlet upgrades for the same price as epic upgrades. For a one time Epic upgrade price every camera after that is substantially better for the *same price*. An alternate way to look at it is that the Epic upgrades only cost slightly more. For $13k if I upgrade 3x I get way better upgrades than for $10k 3 times. After upgrading to Dragon I got 6k at 100fps. If I had upgraded my scarlet to dragon I would have gotten 6k at 12 fps. Both upgrades cost $10,000 one gave me highspeed and low compression for greenscreen and one gave me less framerates and compression options than an MX Epic. Weapon will probably cost the same for Scarlet and Epic customers and I imagine it's safe to say that the Epic Weapon will be substantially more badass for that same amount of money.
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I think I like you're thinking here... :-)
 
Jarred, please make this jump a little less painful in budget for us indies! I know the previous jump from MX to Dragon- 9500- was a fantastic deal in industry terms, but as an indie and on a tight budget it seriously made me stretch - because add to that had to include armor and rocket X . if not, give us some extra time to get the funds! :)
 
Jordan Buck said:
I for one would like to just say that the upgrade path is what has allowed me to progress in what I do and own a camera that was ultimately out of my reach any other way.

Having purchased a Used MX and upgrading to Dragon and now as it stands having top of the crop camera for a lesser price than buying a used Dragon I cant help but appreciate the fact that RED stays loyal to there customers and offers a discount.

I cant imagine people would be complaining about a discount if Arri released a new camera and said any previous Alexa owners etc. will receive a percentage off of there new purchase, not only do we get a discount we get the opportunity to re use some of the parts of our existing model to keep prices down.

I am also sure that this is something that RED keep in mind when doing R&D, It would probably be easier to build a new body around whatever awesome technology they have but they have continued to try and use the past models and keep things going for as long as possible.

Having still spent a fortune to own this kit obviously its hard to keep up financially and to always have the newest, but if we want the image to progress and to have these improvements surely we have to pay for them, they are in fact a company and a company has to make money.

My initial reaction to all theses posts were "fucking hell another upgrade i'm going to be broke" but after reading this whole topic and taking a moment to really think about what we get offered through this portal and from RED it put a smile on my face, it truly is unlike any other company and I for one am extremely happy to be part of the family.
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thx man
 
Brian Boyer said:
Easier said than done. Many Scarlet MX owners couldn't afford an Epic MX to begin with or the jump to Scarlet Dragon, let alone the one to Epic Dragon.

Didn't it cost you $19K to go Scarlet to Epic Dragon? 6K @ 100fps cost $9,500 more than 5KFF @ 48fps.
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I think Gavin's point is that you tend to "pay up" once to get on the higher (Epic) track and, after that, the upgrade prices at each juncture, while maybe still higher, are keeping you at the "premium" level. I am not sure the mathematics are completely flawless but the general idea is a reasonable one.
 
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