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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Update

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Paul Russell said:
Hey Jarred, if you're still online, tell us more about no-penalty Low ISOs. Does this mean that we won't need ND filters much anymore?
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Unless they have used digital limiting/fractional multiplication of sensor light gathering data, NDs will still be needed. Then again, maybe not. They may have a funky trick up their sleeve.
 
Jarred Land said:
It really isn't that difficult per say as long as the system is setup to do it and the ratios match up, nobody did in the past mostly because resolution used to be dictated by NLE and all the baggage that follow legacy formats.

Now that most NLEs are resolution independent, it makes things a bit easier. We have actually been making custom resolutions for years.. First for Fincher with prototype RED ONES because he needed a combination of max frame rate and overscan resolution for stabilization, and then when 3D came along there was custom frame sizes for dealing with IO post adjustment etc.

Noah is correct in his assumption, it got to a point where we had so many odd ball settings already in there, and Matt our head software guy got so tired of me asking him for custom frame sizes in custom builds, he said screw it and just put a user set custom box in there. Of course there still is the standard sizes listed for quick access.
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Perfect. Would this be an across the board firmware. I am still trying to decide whether to go Scarlet Dragon or Epic upgrade paths.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Unless they have used digital limiting/fractional multiplication of sensor light gathering data, NDs will still be needed. Then again, maybe not. They may have a funky trick up their sleeve.
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They could do something similar to the new time lapse modes ( or even HDRX) , that is to read the sensor out several times ( each readout being fully exposed ) and then combining the images together as if the shutter was open for one longer exposure.
 
Don't forget they've got the new PL Mount with internal NDs, electronically controlled, I don't think they will be doing too much to make it all a part of the firmware :)
 
Les Dittert said:
User set frame sizes ... Very good, I suggested that about a year ago, Thank you !
Big question will be if the frame rates will get progressively faster as the vertical size decreases ? It is the vertical read out speed of the sensor that is the limit, after all.
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User/ arbitrary frame sizes or resolutions was actually one of the initial features listed for EPIC when it was first announced. ;)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
User/ arbitrary frame sizes or resolutions was actually one of the initial features listed for EPIC when it was first announced. ;)
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That is pretty interesting. Sounds like we may be able to get some interesting frame rates out of that as well.
/Andreas
 
Jarred Land said:
It really isn't that difficult per say as long as the system is setup to do it and the ratios match up, nobody did in the past mostly because resolution used to be dictated by NLE and all the baggage that follow legacy formats.

Now that most NLEs are resolution independent, it makes things a bit easier. We have actually been making custom resolutions for years.. First for Fincher with prototype RED ONES because he needed a combination of max frame rate and overscan resolution for stabilization, and then when 3D came along there was custom frame sizes for dealing with IO post adjustment etc.

Noah is correct in his assumption, it got to a point where we had so many odd ball settings already in there, and Matt our head software guy got so tired of me asking him for custom frame sizes in custom builds, he said screw it and just put a user set custom box in there. Of course there still is the standard sizes listed for quick access.
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This is fantastic...!

Will the custom frame sizes work out the best frame rate possible (best use of bandwidth) without resorting to the nearest slowest neighbour?

for example if I wanted to shoot 2.6k to get the max frame rate (but still with some downsampling to HD) would this default to the 3k frame rate or would it allow a frame rate between 2k and 3k?

thanks

Michael
 
Any chance the Dragon firmware will give us a 4k HDMI out to a monitor like the Seiki, for instance, to use as a Director's monitor? Is the camera hardware limited in some way to prevent a firmware solution?
 
Elsie N said:
Any chance the Dragon firmware will give us a 4k HDMI out to a monitor like the Seiki, for instance, to use as a Director's monitor? Is the camera hardware limited in some way to prevent a firmware solution?
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The big question is, can the camera do a full debayer of 6k/5k and downscale that to 4k, because HDMI is the smaller problem here. 4k is doable since v1.4 (even 4096*2160 @ 24fps, not just 3840*2160 with up to 30fps).

A HDMI-chipset thats updateable via software to 2.0-specs would be great, but i think its to late for that. But RED could surprise us with multiple outputs (like REDRAY). ;)
 
So quiet...
 
Jarred Land said:
Quiet here.. but the very opposite behind the scenes :)
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So basically crazy people screaming with thier asses on fire running around waving their hands in the air? Sounds like fun:willy_nilly:
 
George Tsai said:
So basically crazy people screaming with thier asses on fire running around waving their hands in the air? Sounds like fun:willy_nilly:
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yup.. that sounds about right.. specially the fire part :)
 
Jarred Land said:
yup.. that sounds about right.. specially the fire part :)
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Sohhhhh, as Fire Chief, are you the one lighting a fire under their asses? '-)
 
Jarred Land said:
It really isn't that difficult per say as long as the system is setup to do it and the ratios match up, nobody did in the past mostly because resolution used to be dictated by NLE and all the baggage that follow legacy formats....

...First for Fincher with prototype RED ONES because he needed a combination of max frame rate...
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I'm glad it's going in there!

You touch on the variations in frame rate with frame size which to me is the part that sounds complicated. Will we see constant variation? Like if I make my frame so-and-so pixels shorter will I be able to sqeeze out 1-2fps extra? Or are there going to be set "teirs/levels" of framerates, matched to the preset frame sizes, to keep the choices from being overwhelming?

Sorry if that's more detail than you're ready to talk about, I'm just very curious!
 
Lee Saxon said:
I'm glad it's going in there!

You touch on the variations in frame rate with frame size which to me is the part that sounds complicated. Will we see constant variation? Like if I make my frame so-and-so pixels shorter will I be able to sqeeze out 1-2fps extra? Or are there going to be set "teirs/levels" of framerates, matched to the preset frame sizes, to keep the choices from being overwhelming?

Sorry if that's more detail than you're ready to talk about, I'm just very curious!
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Its not a complete free-for-all as remember the frame rate is determined not by the raw volume of pixels, but the volume of rows. To get higher frame rate, you need to reduce the number of rows.

So if yo have 5120x2700 frame size and a 4800x2700 frame size ( for example ) the framerate max is the same as the number of rows are the same... but you will get better compression numbers with the smaller number columns. And the inverse is true, If you change that to 5120x2700 vs 5120x2160, then your frame max rate goes up on the second one.

Make sense?
 
Gotcha! Thanks for answering.

What I'm curious about is if I pick an oddball size between the typical sizes (like 5120x2400), will I also get an oddball speed or will I get bumped down to the nearest "standard" speed? For VFX elements where you don't need the whole frame, the possibility of a few extra fps with an odd little square frame size is interesting...
 
So today I finally completed the wire transfer for a new epic. But I won't be back to the US for another month. So my bomb squad rep and I decided to hold off shipment for these next weeks because a lot could happen in the next month, and who knows... Dragon M could be ready by then. He said that once it's in they are going to move very fast with the whole process. This was music to my ears.
 
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