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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon´s Leash (aka RED TETHER)

Happy to report from the tether testing lab:

i´ve just recorded 0272091 continuous frames of 5k 17:1 with the dragon tethered to macmini to USB3 drive ... hey! this is handy ...!! ... and CHEAP!

On tuesday, i´ll approach the real world test, filming the master of a stage with speakers for the whole day, hands off ... about 10-12 hours single shot ...

I´ll be close by, operating the big boy epic hand held and place another minimal config dragon on sticks here and there ...
this is going to be a 1 day event documentary, experimental and free spirit ...

"Rebel without a Crew" style ... ;-)

Unthinkable only a few weeks weeks ago, now with free software upgrades (BETA actually) and a bunch of cable .... what can i say,
the "weapon" maker rocks the house ...

cheers,
Detlev

11206864_10206505290461285_5686301244211138324_o.jpg
 
Hi Detlev,

thanks for testing this. I'm still waiting for my epic Ethernet cable but have a studio shoot this would be ideal for. I'm interested in Epic Dragon 4k 25fps @ 9:1. Will that do real time r3d's using GigE onto MacBook Pro internal SSD? Each take is 45 mins.


Cheers,


Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk
 
It seems like the data rate is limited to about 50 MB/sec ... highest i got so far was 53 MB/sec ... there is a neat iphone app called RED Tools ... ;-)

http://www.red.com/news/red-introduces-cinephotography-app


indicates 35 MB/sec at 4k 25FPS @ 9:1 ... should work!

With the above settings, needs shy of 100GB per 45 min. take.
But beware and remember: drives get slower, the less space they have available, due to fragmentation and so on,
i would go external USB3, not mixing the recording with system files ...
just a hunch, keeping the data stream separate from the rest of the system.

cheers,
Detlev


i did a test with an older macbook pro (2007) with USB2 which i did not like!
So, the game plan is getting a bunch of macbook air, one for each, USB3 2TB drives (the 3TB version on offer need extra power, could be over second USB port - i don´t fancy this) ...
when the shot safety matters, a tiny raid is probably a good thought ... ;-)

E voilá - "mobile multi cam field work direct to disk", powered by RED.

Not to mention, i am a big a fan of this! .... :-))
 
Sweet. We're actually recording 4K HD which is slightly less bandwidth so should work fine. Thank you so much Detlev!

Now we just need his mode in a release build (but won't stop me testing once my cable arrives).

Cheers!

Craig Lees
3dstories.co.uk
 
how is the max bandwidth set ?

is it (currently) fixed / hard limited by RCX or is there a way to allow higher bandwidth given the ethernet port supports it and the write speed of the host device can keep up ?
 
Hi Detlev,

Also, is it possible to simultaneously record to a Redmag whilst GigE'ing the same long take r3d?

Thanks,

Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk
 
Craig Lees said:
Hi Detlev,

Also, is it possible to simultaneously record to a Redmag whilst GigE'ing the same long take r3d?

Thanks,

Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk
Click to expand...

nope, no dual recording.
with the current BETA (build 35) at hand, tested with EPIC DRAGON + SCARLET DRAGON ... it is either/or
 
Mike Nagel said:
how is the max bandwidth set ?

is it (currently) fixed / hard limited by RCX or is there a way to allow higher bandwidth given the ethernet port supports it and the write speed of the host device can keep up ?
Click to expand...

well, the bandwidth is computed and depending on 3 factors
resolution, frame rate, redcode ... + probably a safe margin for protocol traffic etc. ... it feels hard coded by RED
set via on screen menu in RCX / RED Tether

the aforementioned iphone app give´s a nice indication of what that results to in MB/sec.
http://www.red.com/news/red-introduces-cinephotography-app
 
Thanks Detlev.

hopefully red will figure out simultaneous recording in a future release.

Cheers,

Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk
 
Detlev Eller said:
Happy to report from the tether testing lab:
i´ve just recorded 0272091 continuous frames of 5k 17:1 with the dragon tethered to macmini to USB3 drive ...
Click to expand...

Important Update: for whatever reason, the setup (same drive), newer USB3 equipped Macbook Pro does not hold a connection for more than a few minutes ... investigating!


I have confidence in the "Mac Mini" configuration to work it´s magic on Tuesday, i could even copy a REDMAG from the reader to a second USB3 drive in the background ... without disturbing the 3 hour take ...
wicked!

After all, Everything is BETA!

;-)

cheers,
Detlev
 
Mike Nagel said:
Detlev, I'm talking about MAX bandwidth...
Click to expand...

Sure, ... there is no way to set the max bandwidth ... it is set by the RED tech wizzards ... ;-)

The menus do not allow any combination of settings resulting in a max bandwidth higher than 53 MB/sec (the highest combo i found so far) ... this is not measured, but read from the corresponding settings in RED TOOLS (iphone app)
.... hence, i said it´s computed from the 3 factors and in practical terms, thats how I tend to think about it ....

does that help?

cheers,
Detlev
 
Detlev Eller said:
Sure, ... there is no way to set the max bandwidth ... it is set by the RED tech wizzards ... ;-)

The menus do not allow any combination of settings resulting in a max bandwidth higher than 53 MB/sec (the highest combo i found so far) ... this is not measured, but read from the corresponding settings in RED TOOLS (iphone app)
.... hence, i said it´s computed from the 3 factors and in practical terms, thats how I tend to think about it ....

does that help?

cheers,
Detlev
Click to expand...

no, what u're talking about is the required bandwidth for ur specific settings... that is not the max bandwidth for tethering available in ur signal chain.

max bandwidth is determined by a few factors, including capabilities of both ethernet ports, cables and write speed of ur disks.

--> meaning: on a faster signal chain, lower compression ratios would be enabled

so the question is - for the RED team - whether RCX does a quick and dirty system check and then determines the max bandwidth available for systems, or if the RED devs just hard code a "safe" default max bandwidth value...

b/c the point is, even if u just stream 6K 12:1 and ur disks cannot keep up (for whatever reason, there's many) u gonna have frame dropouts or other issues with the footage... (hopefully u realize that sooner than later)

even if we get the faster ethernet port on W, u need to make sure ur disks can keep up with the data rate...

so it would be good to know how things are being implemented by the devs, what is the workflow that they use for testing, and what are the guidelines we should follow in order to make tethering a usable solution...

background is that some of us would like to tether 6K 5:1 or less, which obviously requires new hw and a sw that ensures we get usable footage...
 
Mike Nagel said:
no, what u're talking about is the required bandwidth for ur specific settings... that is not the max bandwidth for tethering available in ur signal chain.

max bandwidth is determined by a few factors, including capabilities of both ethernet ports, cables and write speed of ur disks.

--> meaning: on a faster signal chain, lower compression ratios would be enabled

so the question is - for the RED team - whether RCX does a quick and dirty system check and then determines the max bandwidth available for systems, or if the RED devs just hard code a "safe" default max bandwidth value...

b/c the point is, even if u just stream 6K 12:1 and ur disks cannot keep up (for whatever reason, there's many) u gonna have frame dropouts or other issues with the footage... (hopefully u realize that sooner than later)

even if we get the faster ethernet port on W, u need to make sure ur disks can keep up with the data rate...

so it would be good to know how things are being implemented by the devs, what is the workflow that they use for testing, and what are the guidelines we should follow in order to make tethering a usable solution...

background is that some of us would like to tether 6K 5:1 or less, which obviously requires new hw and a sw that ensures we get usable footage...
Click to expand...

I love the easy thing, it will for sure run into some Bandwidth issues but when weapon comes it will be really nice to have the process proxy files on the leach.
Anyone knows ow many cables there is in the cable? Thinking how I can get this trough sliprings.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Anyone knows ow many cables there is in the cable? Thinking how I can get this trough sliprings.
Click to expand...


RED GIG-E cable has 9 pins on the lemo side and ethernet RJ45 side is the regular 4 x 2 pairs + ground so I guess that's how many cables you'll need to pass thru your robot's sliprings.
 
I have used this on a shoot, there is however a problem. I was recording both to SSD and sdi to have an overlap in the video where I can switch out the ssd cards while keeping the recording going on over the harddisk recorder on the sdi. Whenever you press the start/stop button the video output on the sdi stops momentarily for about 10 frames.

Any chance this will be fixed in a future update?

Trent Lillehaugen said:
External recording has been around for a while. It allows you to trigger external recording devices, that is HDSDI/HDMI recorders, with the camera. In this mode you don't need an SSD in the camera.
Click to expand...
 
Mattias Åkerlind said:
That's why we really need a 10-Gigabit Ethernet port!
Click to expand...

The precursor to what we're discussing here was done back when the RED ONE was not "finished" and it utilized fibre optic networking like a few other cameras did. They never brought it to market because the cost/interest was not lined up to be profitable at the time with the expenses of fibre gear back then.
 
L. Langer said:
The precursor to what we're discussing here was done back when the RED ONE was not "finished" and it utilized fibre optic networking like a few other cameras did. They never brought it to market because the cost/interest was not lined up to be profitable at the time with the expenses of fibre gear back then.
Click to expand...

Yes, but now you don't have to use a fiber cable, just a standard Cat.6 TP cable and a $300 NIC to get 10-Gigabit Ethernet.
 
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