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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Double Dragon....

Jeff Kilgroe said:
I'm still curious if RED has explored the Xeon Phi / Intel MIC platform? While it has a lot of similarities to the nVidia and AMD/ATI GPUs, there's also quite a few differences. It seems to be a much better fit for wavelet operations than CUDA on the Kepler architecture... Just thinking out loud here...
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+1 MIC please
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Still curious if it wouldn't be able to use some of the internals from the Epic to create a Rocket Monster...
It already does 5k playback and downsampling to 1080 in realtime.
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Another stone to look under.

DRAGON is a non-event for smallish indie filmmakers like myself (NOT speaking on behalf of ALL indie filmmakers, let me state that clearly) without an accompanying and affordable, reliable, post solution. RED Rocket has too much of a flaky reputation from my reading thus far.

RED doesn't have to build a solution themselves, but they can atleast partner, prioritize, even fund and facilitate a build by someone else.

I wish there were some way for the user community to impress upon RED that the POST pipeline needs its full attention and that the RED Rocket approach needs a reboot.

:(
 
Jarred Land said:
Hey Filip... Your facts are wrong :)

And if it is really a pain in the ass for you...get a proxy module to record both RAW and super low resolution prores etc. files.. Its not really fair to compare rendering times of 6K raw files vs. 1080p ProRes files.
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Totally - it's about $ it takes power that's all and in the end, how much is your movie worth to you and your producers?

- E
 
Bob Gundu said:
Jarred has mentioned it will run cooler and with less power.
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Man it would be so cool if RED's magicians can squeeze some power-saving-modes out of the chipset to allow fanless operation for standard-fps, well if they can't kick the fans out completely.
 
any info on possible improvements on the sensor coating?
(I'm talking OLPF, IR-sensitivity,...)

thanks! :)
 
RED has already discovered some materials options to reduce weight and get better conductive cooling.

That said, some convective cooling is likely to remain necessary so I think its a matter of evolution in the fans themselves and how they are managed. One of the reasons the Alexa is physically larger that the Epic/Scarlet is bigger air channels in the structure. I prefer small and light, even if that means a bit more fan noise. Engineering, as always, includes some art of compromise.

On that note, I always assumed that more IR protection on the OLPF sandwich would cut sensitivity so it was better to have it be handled by an external filter. Either I am a bit off on my science or the Dragon is so sensitive that the loss is acceptable.

Cheers - #19
 
Jarred Land said:
Hey Filip... Your facts are wrong :)

And if it is really a pain in the ass for you...get a proxy module to record both RAW and super low resolution prores etc. files.. Its not really fair to compare rendering times of 6K raw files vs. 1080p ProRes files.
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With the advancement on GPU technology, is there no way to start leveraging that for debayering purposes as opposed to having to get two red rockets for every workstation?
I hate to say but a lot of commercial productions end up using Arri Alexa not because it's a better camera but because it has less of an overhead when it comes to workflow. The productions that do end up using our Epics require us to transcode all the r3d files in a different format...it's really a shame that a lot of those people are not taking advantage of the amazing flexibility that redcode/raw files gives them... This is where a cheaper rocket or GPU optimization could really help sway a lot of those people.
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
With the advancement on GPU technology, is there no way to start leveraging that for debayering purposes as opposed to having to get two red rockets for every workstation?
I hate to say but a lot of commercial productions end up using Arri Alexa not because it's a better camera but because it has less of an overhead when it comes to workflow. The productions that do end up using our Epics require us to transcode all the r3d files in a different format...it's really a shame that a lot of those people are not taking advantage of the amazing flexibility that redcode/raw files gives them... This is where a cheaper rocket or GPU optimization could really help sway a lot of those people.
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Seems like Filip, you and I see some of the same patterns... :)
It isn't an issue for fully red-tuned houses, like a few I have been involved with.
It can definitely be an issue in the open market.

But if it isn't a priority, it isn't. Won't change what cameras I use anyway... :)

And with a proper gpu/station, hplaybacks, if not renders are ok.
And software decode has some advantages over rocket, so setting up renderfarms for that and working uncompressed like some rather significant red supporters do for online, can make a lot of sense.

Just raw throughput, not raw processing.
Leaving the computing power to colorcorrections and vfx processing, rather than debayering and decoding wavelets.

Makes a lot of sense in some contexts.
And there are food quality arguments for such workflows.

Offline/conform/uncompressed online still makes a lot of sense for long form work.
 
Filip Orlandic said:
Jarred,

R3D rendering times have always been a huge RED weakness. 95% of the RED owners and post houses don't have a red rocket card or even two as you suggest.

Dragon 6K and the new afforadble (max 1000 usd) hardware/software acceleration solution must start shipping in the same time.
Slow renders could blow everything.
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I'm editing 5K EPIC files everyday on my 5 year old MacBook Pro. This thing eats R3Ds for breakfast. Editing at 1/8th resolution, and even exporting out to 1080p for some clients is simple, painless, and relatively fast. A 3 minute 5K video takes 45 minutes on 5 year old hardware. That's nothing to cry about.
 
Justin Kirchhoff said:
I'm editing 5K EPIC files everyday on my 5 year old MacBook Pro. This thing eats R3Ds for breakfast. Editing at 1/8th resolution, and even exporting out to 1080p for some clients is simple, painless, and relatively fast. A 3 minute 5K video takes 45 minutes on 5 year old hardware. That's nothing to cry about.
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That sounds quite unbelievable! I wonder how it can do it so fast?
My new beefy Intel i7 system spits out a 3-4 minute video - with effects and all the goodies applied in around 7-10 hours with the CPU at 100 % workload at all time.
 
I think this meme is really apropiate in this moment
 

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Justin Kirchhoff said:
I'm editing 5K EPIC files everyday on my 5 year old MacBook Pro. This thing eats R3Ds for breakfast. Editing at 1/8th resolution, and even exporting out to 1080p for some clients is simple, painless, and relatively fast. A 3 minute 5K video takes 45 minutes on 5 year old hardware. That's nothing to cry about.
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I wouldn't equate editing at 1/8th resolution a system that "eats R3Ds for breakfast".... it's pretty painless to edit the footage even at 1/2 resolution...the problem is with exporting and rendering out.... that is when it takes a very long time without a rocket...especially when you are outputting at maximum quality with FULL debayering on your 5k footage....add the smallest little effect on that footage and the process of rendering out is even longer.
 
Any ideas on Epic update prices?? Should we be thinking in the 8000/9000 region??
 
Viktor Sloth said:
That sounds quite unbelievable! I wonder how it can do it so fast?
My new beefy Intel i7 system spits out a 3-4 minute video - with effects and all the goodies applied in around 7-10 hours with the CPU at 100 % workload at all time.
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That sounds about right Viktor. Especially with maximum quality and full debayering enabled.... Now...as soon as you uncheck "render at maximum quality" your time to render drops drastically. (Try it you will be amazed how much faster it goes...lol)
 
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