DJI RONIN - independent review and in-depth test

[Andreas Kielb]

Dobrej den Ostraváku! (I used to live in Novy Jičín / Šenov when I was a kid...)

As Constantine pointed out (thank you Constantine!) - we have discussed this over the last few pages in great detail.
THIS is the key difference between Steadicam and Gimbals, exaggerated by the fact that this was my first test with the Ronin.
I know then more I will work with the Ronin - the better I will get at managing this issue.
This has nothing to do with the Ronin - this is 100% issue with the motion platform - in this case human operator - myself...

:sifone: Peter

Very nice footage, Peter! The footsteps issue can easily be solved by attaching the gimbal to the steadicam sled. Since you also work as steadicam operator it would be great if you could include that into your tests. What I really like about the Ronin is the possibility to tune the system automatically, at least if that works reliable for different camera setups and weights. Did you use the autotune option to setup the Ronin for the shots in your video? Maybe you also could try the autotune with much lighter cameras like a DSLR to see if it works constantly good?

 

[Med D]

This is REDUSER Zeb... :cheers2:

Ouch!

Nice footage, love the different applications.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Very nice footage, Peter! The footsteps issue can easily be solved by attaching the gimbal to the steadicam sled. Since you also work as steadicam operator it would be great if you could include that into your tests. What I really like about the Ronin is the possibility to tune the system automatically, at least if that works reliable for different camera setups and weights. Did you use the autotune option to setup the Ronin for the shots in your video? Maybe you also could try the autotune with much lighter cameras like a DSLR to see if it works constantly good?

Yes, Steadicam is definitely one of the options to solve this and I am for sure including this in my test. Only waiting for the custom bracket now... ;o)

:sifone: Peter

 

[Andreas Kielb]

Yes, Steadicam is definitely one of the options to solve this and I am for sure including this in my test. Only waiting for the custom bracket now... ;o)

:sifone: Peter

Great to hear. Did you use the autotune function for your setup and how does it work? Or was it neccessary to change the change the settings to achieve the good results in your video?

 

[Nathan Apffel]

Peter,

After watching your first test video, i wanted to say congrats. The footage looks great, and I love the fact you have the balls to put a 105 on it!

In my opinion this is a huge test for and nod to the ronin. I've been using another gimbal for almost a year now, and with what the ronin produced here I am very confident ronin in the next gen tool for me.

Thanks for giving your time to this no bull, fluff, straight forward test.

 

[Steve Das]

Peter, After watching your first test video, i wanted to say congrats. The footage looks great, and I love the fact you have the balls to put a 105 on it!

In my opinion this is a huge test for and nod to the ronin. I've been using another gimbal for almost a year now, and with what the ronin produced here I am very confident ronin in the next gen tool for me....

What is the issue with the telephoto lens on the gimbal...is it just that the telephoto is going to emphasize any extra motion /shake.

 

[Justin McAleece]

Yes, any sort of movement is magnified on those longer lenses. An inch is a mile!

 

[Peter Majtan]

Great to hear. Did you use the autotune function for your setup and how does it work? Or was it neccessary to change the change the settings to achieve the good results in your video?

The auto-calibrate function works better then expected. In reality this first test all I did was to physically balance the camera in the gimbal (about 5 min) and then press the auto-calibration button on the iOS app (under a minute). Then it was off to the shooting without any further adjustments or tuning.
All I need to play with now is the actual settings independent of the calibration, such as the speed at which I want the gimbal to move, how fast I want it to respond, window of tolerance, etc... - all these are easy adjustable from the app while you are running the rig.
I was playing with this a lot on a set yesterday. Held the gimbal in one hand - adjusted setting on my iPhone with the other - tested the response and then repeated the process until I got the follow mode to work the way I wanted for the particular shot...
Super easy and convenient. And you can quickly re-adjust between shots. One minute you can shoot quick pan follow ups and 2 min later slow smooth tracking shots...
This will only get better judging from the two updates in the last 10 days...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Peter Majtan]

About the tele lenses - yes, they magnify any movement dramatically.
With a real-size helicopters we were forced to use long focal lengths to get the framing needed as you are restricted how low can you fly.
So if you want to fill your frame from 1000' with a car going 100 mph on a dirt track - you have to reach for the 70-200 and I have done so on few occasions.
Not an easy task and most of the time requires the use of very expensive systems like the Wescam to get proper results...
But with the budgets these days being squashed so much - these tools are most of the time out of the question.
The beauty of RC aerials is that you have the opposite restriction - you have a celling on how high can you fly before you need clearance / license...
So with RC you can get as close to your subject as you (and the subject) are comfortable with within common safety limits.
So the need for longer focal lengths is being reduced dramatically.
The 35-105mm f/3.5 FD lens I have had converted to EF mount is specifically for aerials and I do not expect to need anything longer then the 105 mm - certainly not on frequent basis.
On the contrary - just need to find a complimentary wide angle as the problem now becomes reversed.
The 18-35 Sigma sure seems like a great gimbal lens and so is the (now hard to get) RED 17-50 mm v2...
And I am most certainly getting the (hated by many) $300 new Canon EFs 10-18 lens. At that price it is hard to beat for when you need to go super wide. And the initial imagery posted from this lens is impressive to say the least...

So I think my personal aerial lens kit will consist of:

Canon EFs 10-18 mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM (as is)
Sigma 18-35 mm f/1.8 DC HSM (cine modified)
Canon FD 35-105 mm f/3.5 (already converted to EF with variable fluid aperture)

I expect the Sigma to be on the gimbal 75% of the time even for on-the-ground work...
I might also give a try to the Canon EF 16-35 f/4L IS USM for its extra Image Stabilisation function, but at f/4 its use will be limited to daylight exteriors (just like the 10-18)...

Having said all that - during my further testing of the Ronin I most certainly intend to "slap on" the Canon EF 70-200 mm f/2.8L IS II and test it at extreme of 200 (particularly from a helicopter)... :reddevil:

:sifone: Peter

 

[Petri Teittinen]

So if I'm correct, there's currently no solution for using a V-mount battery to power an Epic installed on the Ronin... right?

Peter, and I asked this before but you probably missed it, do you think I could use a battery belt clip to power my Epic - or would the power cable hinder Ronin's operation?

 

[Demetri Zuev]

So if I'm correct, there's currently no solution for using a V-mount battery to power an Epic installed on the Ronin... right?

Petri, not at all, there is a V-mount solution from FreeFly that mounts a V-mount plate on the side of the camera (where a side handle usually is). Here's a link - http://store.freeflysystems.com/collections/movi-accessory/products/epic-vlock-adapter-kit

It works with Ronin as well. Though I don't think that you can put a battery larger than 95w on it or it'll become too heavy

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Wow! Thank you Demetri!

Heh, I knew I bought those PAG PL96e batteries for a reason

 

[Peter Majtan]

Hey guys! Just have spent the whole day downtown at my favourite rental house ARK VIDEO (http://www.arkvideo.co.jp) configuring the Ronin with a properly cine-configured Epic...:

I will post all the configuration details, weights and of course some sample footage as soon as I have had a chance to rest a bit... ;o)
Every day I use the Ronin I love it more and more. Not since RED there has been a tool that has revitalised my love of cinematography more...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Every day I use the Ronin I love it more and more. Not since RED there has been a tool that has revitalised my love of cinematography more...

So you're saying it's worth the $$$ and I shouldn't waste my time or money looking for cheapter alternatives?

 

[vincent kardasik]

Peter,
When reading the specs the Ronin weights more than 9lbs so 6lbs more than the M10 for example.
How do you handle shooting with it?
Since the beginning of the "gimbal era" it seems that all operators complain about how difficult it is to carry these things.
Don't you feel like the Ronin is way too heavy?

 

[Demetri Zuev]

Hey guys! Just have spent the whole day downtown at my favourite rental house ARK VIDEO (http://www.arkvideo.co.jp) configuring the Ronin with a properly cine-configured Epic...:

I will post all the configuration details, weights and of course some sample footage as soon as I have had a chance to rest a bit... ;o)
Every day I use the Ronin I love it more and more. Not since RED there has been a tool that has revitalised my love of cinematography more...

:sifone: Peter

Peter, how do you power your Paralinx transmitters/receivers?

 

[Peter Majtan]

So you're saying it's worth the $$$ and I shouldn't waste my time or money looking for cheapter alternatives?

Petri - to properly answer this I have to put the answer in a perspective...:

If what you are looking for is a gimbal that can handle without a compromise fully-kitted RED camera (and many other cameras that simply won't fit on other gimbals - whether due to size or weight or shape or all three together) - then absolutely YES. Don't waste your time - especially with any cheaper alternatives. There is simply no cheaper alternative. In reality, as of now, there isn't really any alternative regardless of the price aside of maybe the Helix. The Ronin easily outperforms even the 3x+ more expensive MOVI-10 which has 25% less payload capacity (when accounted for the new 12 lbs updated spec)...

But this comes at a cost - the Ronin is certainly not light-weight or for the fainthearted. Your average fully-kitted configurations for proper cinema work where you must have matte-box, FIZ, wireless HD, etc... will run around the 10 kg mark all included. This is not for everyone.
But this is identical for professional Steadicam work. The rigs that we fly weigh a lot more then the Ronin. I am sure in time there will be solutions (like the EasyRig + Serene combo) that will address this concern.
In the meantime if you need no-compromise solution for professional cinematography - look no further...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Peter Majtan]

Peter, how do you power your Paralinx transmitters/receivers?

Demetri - I had the folks at Paralinx make me a custom T-tap cables so I can power mine from LiPo's.
In the config above there are two LiPo's on the handle-bar - one powering the Tomahawk and the other powering the Crossbow and Arrow+.
If I had a Y-cable - I could have powered all from one LiPo.
When I am done configuring my personal setup - I will have a solution where all the accessories on the handlebar will be powered from a single LiPo - even the monitor. This will simplify battery change and management and also make the rig that much more compact and lighter...

:sifone: Peter

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Petri - to properly answer this I have to put the answer in a perspective...:

If what you are looking for is a gimbal that can handle without a compromise fully-kitted RED camera (and many other cameras that simply won't fit - whether due to size or weight or shape or all three together) - then absolutely YES. Don't waste your time - especially with any cheaper alternatives. There is simply no cheaper alternative. In reality, as of now, there isn't really any alternative regardless of the price. The Ronin easily outperforms even the 3x+ more expensive MOVI-10 which has 25% less payload capacity (when accounted for the new 12 lbs updated spec)...

But this comes at a cost - the Ronin is certainly not light-weight or for the fainthearted. Your average fully-kitted configurations for proper cinema work where you must have matte-box, FIZ, wireless HD, etc... will run around the 10 kg mark all included. This is not for everyone.
But this is identical for professional Steadicam work. The rigs that we fly weigh a lot more then the Ronin. I am sure in time there will be solutions (like the EasyRig + Serene combo) that will address this concern.
In the meantime if you need no-compromise solution for professional cinematography - look no further...

:sifone: Peter

As Peter stated , we as operators as well as designing tools, knew this from the start. Thats why we have started designing tools that can take the weight limits of pro rigs and not just naked cameras wit photo lenses.

Example is that easy rig and Serene can take up to 20kg of camera and gimbal and stabilise it, support it , and give you the benefit of long takes. The same we do with our gimbal, we already work with Alexa xt huge in size and over 15kg of weight. You shouldn't limit your choice , it comes a time when you will need an extra kg or 2, or even 3 and the choice will not be there for you.

We are also in the works of the fastest quick release for hand overs to other easyrigs and Serene. Possibilities are all there.

kind regards

 

[Peter Majtan]

Peter,
When reading the specs the Ronin weights more than 9lbs so 6lbs more than the M10 for example.
How do you handle shooting with it?
Since the beginning of the "gimbal era" it seems that all operators complain about how difficult it is to carry these things.
Don't you feel like the Ronin is way too heavy?

Vincent - I have addressed this a little in my above answer to Petri...

I have also seen Ketches' take on this question - but with all due respect I disagree with him.
First of all the choice to use aluminium instead of carbon-fibre was certainly not due to cost saving. If you see the complex precision machining of the arms - they cost a lot more to make then just the standard off-the-shelf carbon-fibre tubes cut to length.
The problem with carbon-fibre tubes is that they are inherently slippery. Most here are already familiar with this issue when we started to use carbon-fibre rods instead of aluminium ones trying to save weight.
In the end it is next to impossible to prevent FIZ motor from slipping on CF rods.
This translates to the gimbals as well - and in particular where you enter the domain of the heavy-weight cameras like a fully-kitted Epic.

Then there is the weight saving issue. Really most of the weight of the Ronin is due to its massively strong motors, the battery and the electronics.
If you were replaced the arms with CF tubes - the saving in weight of the overall fully-kitted rig will be negligent and you will run into the issues I have just mentioned.
In fact even on the Ronin the main handle-bar is a high-quality CF tube and you need to tighten the handles with alan key to prevent them from slipping under the heavy load.
So lets say the full rig weighs at 10 kg with the camera and all accessories. Using CF would save at the most 1 lb / 0.5 kg - and I am being generous here. You would never notice this - the rig will still be too heavy for the average operator. And you will end up with the issues associated with CF...
Absolutely not worth it if you ask me - and I for one am glad that DJI opted to go this route...

If you look at the Helix - despite its compact design it is not that much lighter then the Ronin. There is no way around this if you want to handle these kind of payloads (15+ lbs).
The motors on the Ronin alone weigh more then the bare M10 (without batteries).
The best way I can compare this is tripods. Everyone here knows my affection for Mannfrotto systems. I have been using them successfully for years now even with fully kitted RED ONE.
That works great for me as I travel a lot to remote locations and need to carry my own gear. But you won't see any Mannfrottos on a proper film set - even if they could handle most of the camera configurations used.
The reason people use the much heavier O'Connors (etc) is simple - they are guarantee to handle ALL the configuration you may ended up needing on the set without a compromise, not just the most commonly used ones...
On a film set time is money. You need to know you can 100% rely on your equipment not only to work flawlessly - but to be able to handle anything you can throw at it...
This is Ronin. With the optional longer camera accessory package you can handle kitted Alexa on it. Good luck trying that on the MOVI...

And yes - the rig is heavy and not everyone will be able to operate it comfortably...
Considering the wide range and expertise in gimbal tech at DJI - I would be surprise if we don't see in the future a "LITE" version of the Ronin that will be more targeted at the smaller cameras (and compact configs of the RED's).
Ronin is the answer to fill the gap on the market. The gimbals evolved from RC aerial field that has only recently (in the industry terms) began flying RED cameras in a very limited configurations.
The M10 is nothing more then the MR (multi rotor) version with handles on it instead of a helicopter.
Ronin - just like the Helix - has been designed primarily for ground operations and will be extensively used suspended from or supported on various platforms - capable of carrying proper cine configurations without a compromise...

Choose your tools carefully...

:sifone: Peter