DJI RONIN - independent review and in-depth test

[Peter Majtan]

Hi folks! I know everyone has been frustrated with the lack of proper independent review and in-depth testing of the new DJI RONIN 3-axis gimbal...
I am pleased to say that the wait is over! I have just received the RONIN and I am ready to "dive in" into the testing and review...

I am cooperating with a local rental house in order to put the Ronin through its limits.
We intend to try all sorts of configurations - from the lightest, most compact Scarlet with affordable still lenses and accessories - all the way up to fully kitted CF Dragon Epic with proper cine glass, matte-box, filters, FIZ and wireless HD...
We are also planing to test the Ronin on variety of platforms - from handheld through steadicam, crane, dolly, car and other moving platforms all the way up to a full-size helicopter (weather permitting)...

There are many questions you guys have that are yet to be answered - so this is your chance!
If you have any specific requests and / or questions you want me to test / answer - please post it here. I will do my best to cover them all...

I will also post a ton of footage - both from the RED and BTS. We are also going to mount a GoPro on the outside handles for a direct comparison of the stabilization effect...

:sifone: Peter


Here is a summary (I will keep this updated) info...:

Main page at DJI:
http://www.dji.com/product/ronin


Basic Package:

1 x Ronin Gimbal
1 x Ronin Intelligent Battery
1 x Ronin Battery Charger
1 x Dual mini 15mm modular rods (3-sections for each rod)
1 x Lens support base
1 x Remote Operator Controller 2.4ghz
1 x Camera Dovetail Plate
1 x Collapsable tuning / balancing stand (able to take top part off to mount on a baby pin)
2 x Top Bar Accessory Mounts
2 x 1/4" Camera Screws
2 x 3/8" Camera Screws
1 x Allen Wrench Set
1 x Accessories Pouch
1 x Custom Molded Pelican-Style Carrying Case with hard foam
1 x Power Breakout Box
1 x Thumb control*

$ 2.999,- USD - retail
$ 2.700,- USD - REDUSER GROUP BUY
(shipping and handling charges to be added as extra by your local dealer based on your preference for the shipping - keep in mind that this is a rather large and heavy case)
(source: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...IN-Group-Buy&p=1391714&viewfull=1#post1391714)
* The thumb control is not yet available and we are waiting for a confirmation if this is still part of the base package...

Weight info:

4175 g (9.2 lbs) - RTS Ronin in handheld mode (including handle bars and battery - not including camera and camera accessories)
3390 g (7.5 lbs) - RTS Ronin in 3-rd party platform config - such as aerial, steadicam, etc... (including battery - not including handle bars, camera and camera accessories)
510 g (1.1 lbs) - Ronin remote controller with 4x AA batteries

7250 g (16 lbs) - maximum payload for camera with camera accessories


RED DSMC camera configurations weight info:

XXXX g - lightest functional Epic config (including ...)
XXXX g - lightest functional Scarlet config (including ...)
XXXX g - "proper" basic cinema configuration (including RED Epic, Side-SSD, REDMAG, PL mount, FI(no Z) prime lens control, wireless HD, LCD, power solution, matte-box with 1x 4x5.65 filter (no flags) and all necessary cables, etc...)

XXXX g - "PETER's HAND-HELD CONFIG" - my personal preferred configuration for hand-held operation (including ...)
XXXX g - "PETER's GROUND CONFIG" - my personal preferred configuration for on the ground operation other then hand-held - basically as above, but no handle bars and LCD (including ...)
XXXX g - "PETER's AERIAL CONFIG" - my personal preferred configuration for remote aerial operation (including ...)


PS: It looks like Ketch is also doing his own review of the RONIN over in California. This is a great news! The more reviews we get the better we will understand what this product is capable of and what we can expect...

Ketch Rossi's review:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?118216-dji-Ronin-(XL)-Multi-Test-Shoot-Review


First two days getting to know the Ronin...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBqyjtLpdQ

See the notes in this post...: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...n-depth-test&p=1387366&viewfull=1#post1387366


Official DJI videos:

http://www.dji.com/product/ronin/video



Nice vid from AMP guys...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCPWYgckF8

 

[Peter Majtan]

PICTURES:

VIDEOS FROM THE CAMERA:


BTS VIDEOS OF THE RONIN:

 

[Peter Majtan]

"TO DO" list

A. Packaging (case organisation, quality, etc...)
B. Documentation (printed and/or electronic)
C. First setup (difficulty, time needed, accessories/tools needed)
D. Weight of the basic rig without camera and accessories
E. Handling of "lightweight" config (Scarlet or CF Dragon with absolute min needed to shoot)
F. Handling of "average" config (Scarlet / Epic with the average accessories)
G. Handling of "heavy" config (camera kitted to reach the 16 lbs payload limit)
H. Single-user "follow" mode (ease of operation and precision / feel)
I. Dual-operator setup mode (ease of operation and precision / feel)
J. Remote operation mode (rig attached to various platforms without the handles)
I. Universal Mount - ease of mounting to and switching between various platforms
J. Re-balancing after configuration change (lens, accessories, etc...)
K. Comparison of the three "height" modes - standard, inverted above the rig, sideways low mode - and the ease of switching between them
L. Range of the remote controller (both open space line-of-sight and in indoors through walls, etc...)
M. Battery life and use (light / average / heavy camera configuration + how long it takes to recharge)
N. Ability to power accessories from the included battery
O. Modifications and future upgradeability (longer arms to handle longer camera setups, ability to "talk to" other controllers, etc...)
P. Disassembly and packing after shoot (how easy and how long it takes)


Requests from fellow REDUSERs:

01. Handling in a fast moving aircraft - such as helicopter
02. Weight
03. Battery life (lightweight / average / max payload)
04. Control SW
05. Single-user mode responsiveness
06. Robustness of fasteners under heavy duress
07. Any self-osculation issues?
08. Tolerance for not perfect balance
09. Time for initial setup and balance
10. Time to re-balance after lens change
11. Various cable options and comparing standard vs thin/flexible and the impact on final results
12. Building setup using existing RED accessories that most of us already have

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Wow, sounds great!
Hope you can do the real heli test and
Tell about the experience

 

[Brett Harrison]

I'd be interested to know how much of a knock it can take without losing calibration, how stiff you can get the motors, how heavy it is, how long the battery works effectively with a full RED setup, the finesse of the movement software, the responsiveness of the single user mode, the robustness of the fasteners under heavy duress like crane work. How easy it is to get self-occilation, how well a less-than-steller balance is compensated for under duress (particularly in the tilt axis). Cheers!

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Perfect timing Peter.

I'm shooting a feature soon, and we planning to shoot it completely on 2 Ronins.
No tripod, no dolly, no sliders.
Can't wait to hear what you are coming up with.

I'm especially interested in, how long it takes to re-balance, when you change lenses.

 

[Peter Majtan]

- how much of a knock it can take without losing calibration
- how stiff you can get the motors

Hi Brett! Can you please elaborate on the above two points?

I've added the rest of the question to the list in post 3. Keep 'em coming...

Cheers

:sifone: Peter

 

[Peter Majtan]

I'm especially interested in, how long it takes to re-balance, when you change lenses.

Frank - there are going to be two answers to your question...

A. Standard RONIN - the optical center of the lens is not aligned with the CG (center of gravity) axis of the gimbal. As such - changing anything on the rig will require re-balancing in all 3 axis. Even so - I do not expect this to take too long as the RONIN offers tool-less balancing. I will report on that in detail during my test...

B. RONIN with custom accessories - as I have mentioned earlier in this thread - I am developing a power-related accessory for the RONIN that will allow small compact V-lock batteries to be used with the rig. What I did not mention is that this particular accessory is being designed to address the above issue and it will (together with other accessories I am developing) allow the camera to be mounted with optical axis aligned with the CG. Once the initial balancing is completed - changing lenses will only require adjustment along the Z-axis, greatly speeding up the lens swap procedure...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Peter Majtan]

It looks like Ketch will be also doing his own review of the RONIN over in California. This is a great news! The more reviews we get the better we will understand what this product is capable of and what we can expect...
I have added the bellow link to my first post as well...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?118216-dji-Ronin-(XL)-Multi-Test-Shoot-Review

:sifone: Peter

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Thanks Peter - looking forward to your test.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Frank - there are going to be two answers to your question...

A. Standard RONIN - the optical center of the lens is not aligned with the CG (center of gravity) axis of the gimbal. As such - changing anything on the rig will require re-balancing in all 3 axis. Even so - I do not expect this to take too long as the RONIN offers tool-less balancing. I will report on that in detail during my test...

B. RONIN with custom accessories - as I have mentioned earlier in this thread - I am developing a power-related accessory for the RONIN that will allow small compact V-lock batteries to be used with the rig. What I did not mention is that this particular accessory is being designed to address the above issue and it will (together with other accessories I am developing) allow the camera to be mounted with optical axis aligned with the CG. Once the initial balancing is completed - changing lenses will only require adjustment along the Z-axis, greatly speeding up the lens swap procedure...

:sifone: Peter

Though systems like gimbals or even roll cages that have the ability to be balanced and rotate around the centre of optical axis, are easier to balance on CG when changing lenses or adding accessories, that is not the case for all cameras. That is because the optical axis of any type of camera is not going through the centre of COG , and there are many different cameras that are closer or more far from this point. That means that you have to displace the balancing counter weights, and in some cases with batteries on the side, or at the back of the camera and in an offset that can mean very drastic displacement of the counterweights or even bigger counterweights that will effect more drastically and compensate, so you can keep the system COG around the optical axis.
Then its a case of how limited a motor system is, to be able to work with a little off COG balance or not, to handle the situation better or worst.

even if you have a system that allows you to balance around the optical axis, that doesnt mean that the COG will be at the optical axis centre while moving components like bigger shorter lenses when you use lens motor(s) . So rebalance will also have to be fine tuned according to how much error offset is acceptable from the motor system you are using.and since the error produced will effect the tilt axis as well as the roll axis, you will still have to balance in 2 axis and not just front to back for the tilt. Maybe minor adjustment for the roll axis but still there.

Lens barrels have different diameters and they displace the lens motor on the side, and closer of more far of the optical centre when changed, so depending on the weight of your lens motor and the diameter of the lens barrel gear, you might need to fine tune again if your motor system is not very forgiving.

If your lenses are similar in diameter barrel, it doesnt look as a problem , but have in mind that for example 20 mm difference in diameter, together with lens motor weight and different mounting angle can produce error and might need fine tuning on the roll axis as well.

Best regards

 

[Peter Majtan]

Constantine - thank you very much for your input, I really appreciate it.
You are rising all valid points and the accessories I am developing are designed to cope precisely with these issues, while also solving few others...
The hope is that the very small difference in the off-axis lens balance will be small enough for the gimbal motors to cope with - baring the "ENG" type lenses with large motor grips on the side.
The accessory I am making will actually put balance of the camera itself into its own optical axis (after all accessories are in place). The best part? You won't need to add any "dead-weight" counter balancing HW. And you will be able to fine-tune it quickly Steadicam style... ;o)
Can't wait for the currier to ring the doorbell so I can get into testing...!

Again - thanks for your input! Please keep it coming...

:sifone: Peter

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Hey Peter, the fact that you are using useful weight construction to achieve that is the best of this , as counterweights dead weight is just adding extra weight to devises that are already more or less overloaded so well done. Thats what I would do if I was limited, have in mind though that while still a good idea, at present time applies to certain camera bodies and lens , which of course is the limited factor on all available gimbals. But your attempt is a plus and Iam glad someone start seeing this to more improvements that make sense for those devices.

There are many more things considering those devices and adaptations to various 3rd party equipment, and they are very critical, people havent actually seen them or understand them yet, but since we are working on our own device it wouldnt be fair to point them right now, the reason is that gimbal manufactures should be experienced enough to know them and test them and solve them, and dont expect from users to do this and give solutions.

keep the good work coming well done.

Regards

 

[Peter Majtan]

Thanks Constantine! Letus is a good example about gimbal shifting the CG into the optical axis - but that comes at the cost of added dead-weight. I have been shooting aerials (both with commercially available rigs and ones completely custom designed and built by me) and Steadicam for over a decade now and I am aware of the implication of dead-weight. I have had a client bringing his own MK-V Steadi that looked like it was made before WW1 (and was heavily used in both wars). Most accessories did not work and we were forced to use no less the 5 V-lock bricks to power and balance the rig (three of which were just a dead-weight)! Fortunately it was just a 2-days shoot and I have somehow survived it... ;o)
When it comes to RC aerials - every 100g can make a huge difference...
What my accessory is focusing on is to use the main weight that simply has to be on the rig - and that is the battery. It is a custom mount that not only allows to power the camera (and accessories) - but it is also able to shift the position of the battery to achieve the CG balance aligned with the optical axis. I really think you will like it!

If you have any other ideas and/or concerns - please do not hesitate to voice them here. This goes for everyone else as well. Addressing and solving these is a huge priority and we will all benefit from it!

:sifone: Peter

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

I know exactly what you mean.
good work Peter.

regards

 

[Justin McAleece]

Thanks for doing these tests! I know you are working on a good solution for an offset battery which is great, but I have a question about the other approach:

What kind of power output options does the built-in battery have? I know there are some outputs but are those to the handles by the battery or to the sled itself? I'm trying to determine how to power what I would assume is a very common rig. My plan goes like this:

Epic powered by the Side Handle and Red Volts that I already have.
Paralinx Arrow - Powered via USB battery.
RedRock Micro Remote Follow Focus - Powered via ???

If the sled has 12V power then hopefully I can use that for both accessories. One via the Paralinx P-tap connector cable and one via the RedRock P-tap connector cable.
If it does not then I was planning on getting 12V/5V USB battery and getting a USB to P-Tap connector, but those are hard to find.
OR I could have my buddy set me up with a LiPo with 2 P-Tap outputs and just Velcro that to the camera.

Has anyone else figured out what they plan to do so that they don't have to have a V-Mount brick on the rig? I wouldn't necessarily mind the weight of a smaller V-Mount but I don't want to have to buy 4 new <95 WH batts since I already have 5 @ > 150 WH Bricks.

Does anyone else have a plan for this scenario???

 

[Sinh Tran]

Thanks Constantine! Letus is a good example about gimbal shifting the CG into the optical axis - but that comes at the cost of added dead-weight.

Peter, it's great that you got a demo version to play with but please do not spread misinformation regarding the Letus Helix. Weight is NOT something you want to compare between the Helix and the Ronin. Have you held both? The Ronin feels twice as heavy. Please do us all a favor and report facts.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Peter, it's great that you got a demo version to play with but please do not spread misinformation regarding the Letus Helix. Weight is NOT something you want to compare between the Helix and the Ronin. Have you held both? The Ronin feels twice as heavy. Please do us all a favor and report facts.

Sinh - with all due respect - could you please point out where did I have ever said that the Helix is heavier then the Ronin? All we are discussing is how you approach certain issues / challenges. The Helix is an amazing rig and I have stated several times that I intend to get the 1-axis version purely for Steadicam operation.
What I was pointing out is that the Helix solves the off-optical-axis CG alignment by the addition of counterweight to balance the rig. Those counterweights are by all definition a "dead-weight".
One could take the Epic / Scarlet and add custom weights to the various sides of the brain to end up balancing them perfectly along their optical axis. But those weights would also be by all definition a "dead-weight".
To be even clearer - if you used the various accessories you need to mount to the camera on the Helix to perform the same task (aligning the optical axis with CG and roll axis of the gimbal) - the final configuration of the Helix would be even lighter then it is now...
At no point did I directly compare the total weight of the respective rigs - so please read properly before attacking like this...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Sinh Tran]

Sinh - with all due respect - could you please point out where did I have ever said that the Helix is heavier then the Ronin? All we are discussing is how you approach certain issues / challenges. The Helix is an amazing rig and I have stated several times that I intend to get the 1-axis version purely for Steadicam operation.
What I was pointing out is that the Helix solves the off-optical-axis CG alignment by the addition of counterweight to balance the rig. Those counterweights are by all definition a "dead-weight".
One could take the Epic / Scarlet and add custom weights to the various sides of the brain to end up balancing them perfectly along their optical axis. But those weights would also be by all definition a "dead-weight".
To be even clearer - if you used the various accessories you need to mount to the camera on the Helix to perform the same task (aligning the optical axis with CG and roll axis of the gimbal) - the final configuration of the Helix would be even lighter then it is now...
At no point did I directly compare the total weight of the respective rigs - so please read properly before attacking like this...

:sifone: Peter

Peter, I did not mean for it to sound like an attack believe me. It's just that there are a lot of people looking into buying a gimbal and they do not have as much experience as you do so when they see a statement of dead weight and the name Letus attached to it, they may automatically assume that the Ronin (which you are testing) is lighter due to that statement. Thank you for explaining your point of view and now others and read up on your reasons for making that statement.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Thanks for doing these tests! I know you are working on a good solution for an offset battery which is great, but I have a question about the other approach:

What kind of power output options does the built-in battery have? I know there are some outputs but are those to the handles by the battery or to the sled itself? I'm trying to determine how to power what I would assume is a very common rig. My plan goes like this:

Epic powered by the Side Handle and Red Volts that I already have.
Paralinx Arrow - Powered via USB battery.
RedRock Micro Remote Follow Focus - Powered via ???

If the sled has 12V power then hopefully I can use that for both accessories. One via the Paralinx P-tap connector cable and one via the RedRock P-tap connector cable.
If it does not then I was planning on getting 12V/5V USB battery and getting a USB to P-Tap connector, but those are hard to find.
OR I could have my buddy set me up with a LiPo with 2 P-Tap outputs and just Velcro that to the camera.

Has anyone else figured out what they plan to do so that they don't have to have a V-Mount brick on the rig? I wouldn't necessarily mind the weight of a smaller V-Mount but I don't want to have to buy 4 new <95 WH batts since I already have 5 @ > 150 WH Bricks.

Does anyone else have a plan for this scenario???

Justin - the Ronin has been evolving since the first prototypes were shown publicly. One of the changes is the addition of a break-out box under the camera base to provide power to the various accessories.
In my main list of things to do - your request should be covered in the point E - where I would search for the lightest useable configuration (that will most likely not include V-Lock power setup).
Having said that - actual testing is needed, as I am personally very much interested in the lightest possible setup for RC aerial cinematography...

I guess not everyone is concerned (just) with the weight issue - we need to also consider the cost issue and if I understand this correctly - you want to be able to use the accessories you already have without having to invest more...
For that purpose I will be adding a few additional configurations to the test - ones that utilise existing power solution from RED:

- REDVOLT in SIDE HANDLE
- REDVOLT-XL in REAR XL MODULE (this will most certainly require the optional longer arms)
- RED BRICK in QUICKPLATE MODULE (ditto as above)

These aren't going to be the lightest possible setups (aside of maybe the SIDE HANDLE)...
But I can really understand where you coming from and will certainly add this to the test...

:sifone: Peter