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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DJI RONIN - independent review and in-depth test

Demetri Zuev said:
Peter, how do you power your Paralinx transmitters/receivers?
Click to expand...

I forgot to add the most important aspect of this - the Ronin itself includes 2x D-tap and 1x USB power connectors on the base of the camera plate.
The PARALINX ARROW and ARROW+ needs USB power - so you can just plug thin short USB cable to the Ronin's base and power up your transmitter.
The ARROW-X and TOMAHAWK come with standard D-tap power cables - so you can power them as well directly from the Ronin's battery via the camera base.
This is more then you will need to power any accessories on the gimbal itself...

The LiPo solution I have posted above is for the receivers on the handle-bar (and by the client's monitor).
I have chosen LiPo's for my own personal reasons - but here again PARALINX provides various options for powering the receivers.
From standard main-powered power supplies, through custom V-lock / AB plates and a plethora of various cables to plug into the 2-pin micro LEMO on the ARROW-X / TOMAHAWK systems.
If you need something custom - just ask PARALINX - they can make pretty much any cable you can think of...

:sifone: Peter

From the new DJI RONIN page...:

POWER DISTRIBUTION BOX

ronin-g14.jpg


"Two regulated 12V P-taps, one 500mAH full size USB connector, and also a connection point for the DJI Lightbridge Long Range HD Video Downlink are provided. This offers convenient power connection for various accessories including follow focus systems, HD video downlinks and others, all while keeping the wiring to a minimum."

http://www.dji.com/product/ronin
 
That power setup there solves everything! That's great to hear!!! I can plug the RedRock Wireless and the Paralinx right into it, use the side handle to power the camera and be in great shape. I guess all there is to buy is a couple lightweight RED Lemo cables.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Vincent - I have addressed this a little in my above answer to Petri...

I have also seen Ketches' take on this question - but with all due respect I disagree with him.
First of all the choice to use aluminium instead of carbon-fibre was certainly not due to cost saving. If you see the complex precision machining of the arms - they cost a lot more to make then just the standard off-the-shelf carbon-fibre tubes cut to length.
The problem with carbon-fibre tubes is that they are inherently slippery. Most here are already familiar with this issue when we started to use carbon-fibre rods instead of aluminium ones trying to save weight.
In the end it is next to impossible to prevent FIZ motor from slipping on CF rods.
This translates to the gimbals as well - and in particular where you enter the domain of the heavy-weight cameras like a fully-kitted Epic.

Then there is the weight saving issue. Really most of the weight of the Ronin is due to its massively strong motors, the battery and the electronics.
If you were replaced the arms with CF tubes - the saving in weight of the overall fully-kitted rig will be negligent and you will run into the issues I have just mentioned.
In fact even on the Ronin the main handle-bar is a high-quality CF tube and you need to tighten the handles with alan key to prevent them from slipping under the heavy load.
So lets say the full rig weighs at 10 kg with the camera and all accessories. Using CF would save at the most 1 lb / 0.5 kg - and I am being generous here. You would never notice this - the rig will still be too heavy for the average operator. And you will end up with the issues associated with CF...
Absolutely not worth it if you ask me - and I for one am glad that DJI opted to go this route...

If you look at the Helix - despite its compact design it is not that much lighter then the Ronin. There is no way around this if you want to handle these kind of payloads (15+ lbs).
The motors on the Ronin alone weigh more then the bare M10 (without batteries).
The best way I can compare this is tripods. Everyone here knows my affection for Mannfrotto systems. I have been using them successfully for years now even with fully kitted RED ONE.
That works great for me as I travel a lot to remote locations and need to carry my own gear. But you won't see any Mannfrottos on a proper film set - even if they could handle most of the camera configurations used.
The reason people use the much heavier O'Connors (etc) is simple - they are guarantee to handle ALL the configuration you may ended up needing on the set without a compromise, not just the most commonly used ones...
On a film set time is money. You need to know you can 100% rely on your equipment not only to work flawlessly - but to be able to handle anything you can throw at it...
This is Ronin. With the optional longer camera accessory package you can handle kitted Alexa on it. Good luck trying that on the MOVI...

And yes - the rig is heavy and not everyone will be able to operate it comfortably...
Considering the wide range and expertise in gimbal tech at DJI - I would be surprise if we don't see in the future a "LITE" version of the Ronin that will be more targeted at the smaller cameras (and compact configs of the RED's).
Ronin is the answer to fill the gap on the market. The gimbals evolved from RC aerial field that has only recently (in the industry terms) began flying RED cameras in a very limited configurations.
The M10 is nothing more then the MR (multi rotor) version with handles on it instead of a helicopter.
Ronin - just like the Helix - has been designed primarily for ground operations and will be extensively used suspended from or supported on various platforms - capable of carrying proper cine configurations without a compromise...

Choose your tools carefully...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...

Hey Peter, thanks for that answer.
Really interesting read and your reference to tripod systems is really helpful.
Great that Guys like you and Ketch are able to give us proper feedback and advices before we pull the trigger.
 
(PUBLIC LINK REMOVED)

Hey folks!

My apologies - but the rental house wishes for this video not to be public as it shows some private sections of the their office...
I will go next week and shoot some more stuff that can be shared freely...

In the meantime if you want to see this video - please email me to peter (at) derylgroup (dot) com and I will provide you with the download link and privacy conditions...

My apologies...

Peter
 
Hi Peter,

My first post! :thumbup:

Appreciate your time and effort to test the Ronin and its capabilities.

Can you please check something for me? The yaw axis when it is calibrated to point north (meaning the lens of the camera and the top handle which points towards the opposite direction of the lens) and the top bar carbon handle is perpendicular to the camera. How long does yaw take to drift? I mean does it drift or is the proportional control system with optical encoders and IMU that good it never drifts? I hope you understand what I'm saying. Just curious as the Alexmos system drifts and you have to re-calibrate every so often a pain in the B***.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Hey folks! Here is the 2nd test with the full-cine setup. Of course 24P and no post-stabilization what so ever...:


http://youtu.be/3hokv_zaTT0

Enjoy, details to follow...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...

Great! Well done Peter!
How do you control pan and tilt when operating solo? I guess it's that "smoothtrack" feature but I don't see any joystcik or similar on your handle...
 
Thank you for the earlier reply and this new video, Peter!

I'm starting to think Ronin might not be the gimbal for me. I was kinda looking for a "jack of all trades" solution, i.e. one that I can run handheld, on a steadycam and also on a multicopter. Ronin appears to be too heavy for at least one of those uses. Welp, this calls for careful consideration, especially as I'm not exactly rolling in $ at the moment.
 
Alen Watts said:
Hi Peter,

My first post! :thumbup:

Appreciate your time and effort to test the Ronin and its capabilities.

Can you please check something for me? The yaw axis when it is calibrated to point north (meaning the lens of the camera and the top handle which points towards the opposite direction of the lens) and the top bar carbon handle is perpendicular to the camera. How long does yaw take to drift? I mean does it drift or is the proportional control system with optical encoders and IMU that good it never drifts? I hope you understand what I'm saying. Just curious as the Alexmos system drifts and you have to re-calibrate every so often a pain in the B***.
Click to expand...

Alen - welcome to the REDUSER!

I know exactly what you mean. I am also concerned about gimbals drifting over time. One thing I have tested during the first test two weeks ago was drift on the roll axis (horizon) and after 6+ hours of constant operation my bubble-level confirmed that it was still perfectly levelled. This is something I have never seen before...
I haven't specifically test the pan or tilt - but as far as I can tell - they are also rock solid. I have not noticed any visible drifting once you have properly calibrated the unit...
But I know just a way to test this and will do so as soon as I get the chance...

:sifone: Peter
 
vincent kardasik said:
Great! Well done Peter!
How do you control pan and tilt when operating solo? I guess it's that "smoothtrack" feature but I don't see any joystcik or similar on your handle...
Click to expand...

Yes, it is the follow mode called by DJI as "SmoothTrack". I will be making a specific video dedicated to this function, but in the meantime...:

In a nutshell the SmoothTrack follows the commands you give it by actually moving the handle bar.
It can distinguish between accidental shaking / moving and an intentional motion. You can setup 3 parameters individually for Pan and Tilt axis...:

Speed - this will determine independently how fast will the camera travel while "translating" your Pan and Tilt motion
Deadband - this will determine how much movement will the gimbal "tolerate" before reacting
Accel - this will determine how fast will the transition be from being steady to follow your SmoothTrack commands

The best way to describe it is that you have to "oversteer" with the handle. You start panning right and the gimbal will follow slightly behind (depending on the settings above). You stop and it will stop as well very smoothly (no abrupt jitters here).
You need to find the right balance of the three for each specific shot - but this is easy as you can do this "live" with the smart-phone application while you are operating.
So you can do very quick "whip" motion as well as buttery-smooth floating-like motion and anything in between...

When you turn the "Briefcase Mode" off (this mode allows you to handle the Ronin side-ways like a brief-case and it will automatically re-allocate the respective axis - i.e. you tilt will become pan, etc...), the gimbal will also follow your roll motion.
But you can also adjust the roll with the remote controller, or the soon-to-be-released thumb joystick.
There are also completely independent and far more complex settings for the controller and joystick that allow you to adjust more parameters aside of the three mentioned above. For example on the controller you can setup exponential curve response to the stick movement...

This mode requires a lot of practice and experimenting with the settings, but after a while you will know by heart what settings you need for each kind of shot and how to "predict" and "oversteer" accordingly to keep your subject in the frame.
The lack of this is "perfectly" demonstrated by me in the above video - in particular the low-mode shot following the Nike's where you can see me loosing the subject on some points.
Pure operator inexperience - nothing wrong with the gimbal...

Hope this helps...

:sifone: Peter
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Thank you for the earlier reply and this new video, Peter!

I'm starting to think Ronin might not be the gimbal for me. I was kinda looking for a "jack of all trades" solution, i.e. one that I can run handheld, on a steadycam and also on a multicopter. Ronin appears to be too heavy for at least one of those uses. Welp, this calls for careful consideration, especially as I'm not exactly rolling in $ at the moment.
Click to expand...

Yes Petri, indeed there is never going to be a "jack of all trades". Ronin is as close as it gets, but being able to do what it does and do it with fully kitted camera up to 16 lbs - you can't make it light-weight...
Having said that - a fully kitted camera on its own without any gimbal what so ever can be too much to handle for some operators on a prolonged basis...
The kitted RED on Ronin can actually weigh less the just a RED in a handheld mode with an Optimo in front of it... ;o)

:sifone: Peter
 
Here is the details of the full cine config I was testing...:

Ronin_cine_hero_right.jpg


Ronin_cine_side_left.jpg



My precision scale (+/- 5g) can only go up to 5 kg - so I had to break it down to check the total weight...:

Ronin_cine_config_A03.jpg


3485 g - RED CF Epic Dragon with core accessories
3630 g - DJI RONIN 3-axis stabiliser with accessories
3215 g - DJI RONIN handlebar with wireless HD systems
1595 g - ALLSTAR lens with MB and filter
---------------------------------------------------------------
11.925 g (or 26.3 lbs)

Now you can see why shaving off less the 500g by using carbon-fibre tubes for arms would have made no difference on the overall weight. The issues that this negligent saving would bring with it are simply not worth it.
Its like taking off seat covers in your Hummer to save gas... ;o)

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Yes, it is the follow mode called by DJI as "SmoothTrack". I will be making a specific video dedicated to this function, but in the meantime...:

In a nutshell the SmoothTrack follows the commands you give it by actually moving the handle bar.
It can distinguish between accidental shaking / moving and an intentional motion. You can setup 3 parameters individually for Pan and Tilt axis...:

Speed - this will determine independently how fast will the camera travel while "translating" your Pan and Tilt motion
Deadband - this will determine how much movement will the gimbal "tolerate" before reacting
Accel - this will determine how fast will the transition be from being steady to follow your SmoothTrack commands

The best way to describe it is that you have to "oversteer" with the handle. You start panning right and the gimbal will follow slightly behind (depending on the settings above). You stop and it will stop as well very smoothly (no abrupt jitters here).
You need to find the right balance of the three for each specific shot - but this is easy as you can do this "live" with the smart-phone application while you are operating.
So you can do very quick "whip" motion as well as buttery-smooth floating-like motion and anything in between...

When you turn the "Briefcase Mode" off (this mode allows you to handle the Ronin side-ways like a brief-case and it will automatically re-allocate the respective axis - i.e. you tilt will become pan, etc...), the gimbal will also follow your roll motion.
But you can also adjust the roll with the remote controller, or the soon-to-be-released thumb joystick.
There are also completely independent and far more complex settings for the controller and joystick that allow you to adjust more parameters aside of the three mentioned above. For example on the controller you can setup exponential curve response to the stick movement...

This mode requires a lot of practice and experimenting with the settings, but after a while you will know by heart what settings you need for each kind of shot and how to "predict" and "oversteer" accordingly to keep your subject in the frame.
The lack of this is "perfectly" demonstrated by me in the above video - in particular the low-mode shot following the Nike's where you can see me loosing the subject on some points.
Pure operator inexperience - nothing wrong with the gimbal...

Hope this helps...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to write this Peter.
I hear you when you say that "smoothtrack" and its settings requires practice.
 
Peter, thanks again for your reply. When you have a moment, could you measure how much room there is around the Epic/Dragon when installed on the Ronin? You see, If I end up with a Ronin, I'm thinking about buying a V-mount kit from Freefly (http://store.freeflysystems.com/collections/movi-accessory/products/epic-vlock-adapter-kit) which "replaces" the side handle.

I estimate a minimum of 3 inches (~8 centimeters) is needed between Ronin and Epic/Dragon on the right hand side when using a PAG 96e battery on the kit. Based on the photos you've posted, I don't see that as a problem.

What might be an issue is the way the battery plate extends beyond the camera towards the back. See here:

vlockAdaptorKit2_1024x1024.jpg


Using that photo as a guideline, I measured the battery and estimate the "lip" is approx. 4,5 centimeters, i.e. slightly under 2 inches. Is there that much room behind the Epic/Dragon when it's installed on the Ronin?
 
Not only the battery plate extends behind the camera, but also the batteries you put on it extend further still. You will be fine on the Ronin providing you get the longer arms accessory - width is not an issue...

Having said that - I am actually working with IDX (IDX HQ's is only 30 min from my house here in Tokyo) on a custom solution unlike any other out there specially designed for the Ronin. Stay tuned for more details...

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Not only the battery plate extends behind the camera, but also the batteries you put on it extend further still. You will be fine on the Ronin providing you get the longer arms accessory - width is not an issue...

Having said that - I am actually working with IDX (IDX HQ's is only 30 min from my house here in Tokyo) on a custom solution unlike any other out there specially designed for the Ronin. Stay tuned for more details...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...
Ah, that's the custom mount you mentioned earlier. I'm assuming I won't need to buy the longer arms if I get that?
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Ah, that's the custom mount you mentioned earlier. I'm assuming I won't need to buy the longer arms if I get that?
Click to expand...

Not for the V-mount. It will fit on the standard Ronin. But you might still consider getting the longer arms to give you more flexibility in what lenses (and cameras for that matter) you can use... ;o)

:sifone: Peter
 
Thank you Peter!

Man oh man, I'm so envious of you, living over there in Japan. I spent two months there back in 2006 and fell head over heels in love with the country and the Japanese people. I so wish I could move there permanently...
 
Nice effort to share these info with us. I feel the weight of Ronin is way too much except for the Arnold Schwarzenegger's of the world. DJI should do a complete reengineering and knock off the weights to make it manageable. May be a Ronin version 2.0 ?

Even knocking off 500g would be of a bit of help when one is on a long day shoot. While trekking or mountain climbing, every gram of weight hurts after some time and our composition and creativity during those times goes for a toss. I feel the same principle applies here. I wonder if we can create art when all the focus is on weight lifting?

Peter Majtan said:
Here is the details of the full cine config I was testing...:

My precision scale (+/- 5g) can only go up to 5 kg - so I had to break it down to check the total weight...:
3485 g - RED CF Epic Dragon with core accessories
3630 g - DJI RONIN 3-axis stabiliser with accessories
3215 g - DJI RONIN handlebar with wireless HD systems
1595 g - ALLSTAR lens with MB and filter
---------------------------------------------------------------
11.925 g (or 26.3 lbs)

Now you can see why shaving off less the 500g by using carbon-fibre tubes for arms would have made no difference on the overall weight. The issues that this negligent saving would bring with it are simply not worth it.
Its like taking off seat covers in your Hummer to save gas... ;o)

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...
 
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