Contemplation...

[Mark Phelan]

Completely agree with ur first statement.

as for the $5k EPIC X.. Uhm how? When? And damn u lol j/k congrats on getting that deal.

It's simple really. First, I put a $1,000 deposit for a RED ONE that sold for $17,500 back in August of 2007. Had to wait A YEAR before receiving it in August of 2008. Used the camera for the next several years. Then in 2011, some nut let me buy a brand new Epic X for $19,500. So I did. Then, I decided to sell my original RED ONE for $14,500. Net result, an Epic camera for $5,000.00. A very sweet deal.

 

[Sam Taylor]

It's simple really. First, I put a $1,000 deposit for a RED ONE that sold for $17,500 back in August of 2007. Had to wait A YEAR before receiving it in August of 2008. Used the camera for the next several years. Then in 2011, some nut let me buy a brand new Epic X for $19,500. So I did. Then, I decided to sell my original RED ONE for $14,500. Net result, an Epic camera for $5,000.00. A very sweet deal.

A very sweet deal!!

 

[George A.]

Reading the announcement(s) for the new SONY cameras...

I still don't think SONY came up with a better alternative for EPIC.

But you know what? Even if they did - for the moment, that is - I still like RED's philosophy much more, so I'll stick with them.
Upgradability is what matters most. If I bought a SONY camera before, I'd have to sell it (for much less) and buy the new camera (for much more).
With RED, I only have to wait patiently for the new sensor upgrade. And pay a fair price for it.

Not to mention future modules, future firmwire upgrades (always for free), etc

That is why I will keep investing in RED.
George


--

 

[Dr. Sassi]

I trust in RED to make the best developments, so I can focus on other things (literally).

"...better or cheaper...", well, I would prefer it -- better -- and the option to update to the better ones.

What really counts is the quality of the tools we use, and a company with a future.

I think RED has that for me. ... and they are in communication with us. I look forward to the next step.

Best

Sassi

...

Everything will get better and cheaper as time rolls on....

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

With respect to RED and Sony i'd say they released something significantly better than the R1, in ways rivaling the Scarlet and Epic and winning out in some ways, Scarlet especially. No windowing is fantastic at lower resolutions with higher frame rates. Global shutter, I could go through the obvious. RED stays ahead in resolution and RAW since you don't need a recorder, but the fact you don't have to spend a crap ton more to get proper outputs and XLR is nice...then again you have to pay for the Recorder.

I'd say it comes out pretty even when all is said and done. I'm expecting Dragon to be awesome. At the same time if the rumored prices of close to 15K and 25K are about right, the price drop coming our way might be more than we thought. The 4K frame rates are impressive on both cameras...180 on the F5 and 240 on the 55...in raw.

funny, you only commented about the featurss that are.... NOT YET AVAILABLE ... until the new firmware upgrade comes... they dont say "when".... just saying

 

[Ben Scott]

funny, you only commented about the featurss that are.... NOT YET AVAILABLE ... until the new firmware upgrade comes... they dont say "when".... just saying

Well they wouldn't be the first camera company to do that.... Just sayin

 

[John semikian]

funny, you only commented about the featurss that are.... NOT YET AVAILABLE ... until the new firmware upgrade comes... they dont say "when".... just saying

True Tim but they are coming. When is really irrelevant when making a decision on a new price point. I don't expect Red to drop prices twice. Once now for a small amount and another price drop when Sony delivers on its promises. That would be horrible for RED'S customers, Us.

 

[John semikian]

Well they wouldn't be the first camera company to do that.... Just sayin

Ahem .. Lol

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Nice to see RED mentioned positively by the trades with the Sony announcement. This has GOT to be a first.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/sonys-f55-f5-4k-cameras-384311

And for the underhanded comments directed at RED. RED has always been transparent about firmware upgrades and releasing cameras early. TOTALLY transparent. Including about bugs and other issues. While this one will be FREE from Sony. Will all future Sony firmware upgrades be free? If yes, then we can all thank RED for that!

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

funny, you only commented about the featurss that are.... NOT YET AVAILABLE ... until the new firmware upgrade comes... they dont say "when".... just saying

Thats fair Tim. You make a good point. Looking at it a bit more, and doing a bit more research, I'd say there are still pros and cons both ways. In the end RED's history and loyalty to us wins out. Atleast in my book. Sony atleast did more than Canon. I fully expect RED to step, walk and run all over Sony now as well.

 

[Ben Scott]

Not being confrontational at all but what precisely is this much vaunted 'loyalty' everyone is going on about from Red to their customers? How does it differ from the support of other companies?

 

[Brian Self]

here here!

 

[John semikian]

Not being confrontational at all but what precisely is this much vaunted 'loyalty' everyone is going on about from Red to their customers? How does it differ from the support of other companies?

Oh man here we go. Lol I'm sure someone's gonna get off on a rant here in a second to answer that for you.


all kidding aside though they do (Reds higher ups) seem to make themselves available to their customer base a lot more then other companies, and they seem to try to keep everyone happy although that's pretty much impossible sometimes

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Not being confrontational at all but what precisely is this much vaunted 'loyalty' everyone is going on about from Red to their customers? How does it differ from the support of other companies?

They take care of there own. Lets put it this way. I got my Scarlet X in January this year, it had issues out of the gate. I had an impending shoot in about 4 days. RED told me it could take 15 days to fix and get it back out. They covered shipping both ways and covered it in a day. Literally had it in my hands the following day. They work DAY and NIGHT. I have emails from Bomb Squad reps when I've had problems show up in my inbox while I'm editing at 3 a.m.

Does Sony, Panasonic or Canon do that? Generally you have to go through the retailer/re-seller, then the company, then wait, and pay for it.

 

[Ben Scott]

They take care of there own. Lets put it this way. I got my Scarlet X in January this year, it had issues out of the gate. I had an impending shoot in about 4 days. RED told me it could take 15 days to fix and get it back out. They covered shipping both ways and covered it in a day. Literally had it in my hands the following day. They work DAY and NIGHT. I have emails from Bomb Squad reps when I've had problems show up in my inbox while I'm editing at 3 a.m.

Does Sony, Panasonic or Canon do that? Generally you have to go through the retailer/re-seller, then the company, then wait, and pay for it.

Hmmm... Well my experience of being a Scarlet owner is somewhat different and while I like it very much, 6 months on and I still don't have the camera I thought I was buying, all the while everyone is getting excited about the next iteration and it feels like there is no rush to fix the things that need fixing before going crazy for the new toys. By the time everything is enabled on my Scarlet nobody will be using them on shoots.

I made my choices but I don't feel any more loved by Red than I do by Canon for buying a 60D, or Zanussi for buying a washing machine. But I'll shut up now. I'm not complaining about them so much as wondering why I don't get to feel all warm and special like the majority on reduser seem to.

 

[Emanuel A.]

What does "reasonable" mean? Protecting high-end à la what Sony always did ?! :beatdeadhorse5:

Time to some business-makers change...

Or as anyone already mentioned in the other thread, Kodak is not the case study I want to see a sequel

No. Protecting people who spent a lot of money on Red gear - not forever (like Sony), just a reasonable time to recoup their money to a reasonable degree. I'm hoping, and even, because I hold him in high regard, expecting, Jim to be reasonable and respectful toward his existing buyers. Anything else would be a total shift in attitude and character.

The Epic X has been available in large numbers as Stage 4 for less than a year. New 34 price is since last January. Less than a year is not realistic unless you are a busy rental house rather than an owner-operator.

In the Betacam days no one bought pro video cameras (few people anyway) because they lost value too quickly - you had to rent them almost every day which as a DP, with prep time, was impossible. For that reason, rentals and purchase price were VERY high. This was not good for anyone. In HDV days that was also the case, to a lesser extent.

Reading through your various posts around the forum, you seem to have a problem with "the high end" and people who make a lot of (or any) money at this. You also state that you slept in your car for a film. You also seem to be an intelligent person with a good heart.

As such I urge you to look up "poverty mentality" on Google. I guarantee this is hurting you. It's OK to be prosperous and make money in this business. There's nothing inherently noble about having no money.

LOL Rob, I've given you a good chance for a new post. Without mine, you surely wouldn't have yours now for free ;-) I guarantee this is surprising you. But I am a capitalist With a difference like Clark Kent, I am with the poor artists at times

In any case, I don't think RED has to be concerned with customers like you represent at all. I will even say more... I will praise the day these customers could be out of here or at least to cut their weight in this activity. Hope digital revolution may help to change the old status quo. Hope you understand this is nothing personal, of course. Just movies and moviemakers are my only concern in this craft. Not those who only think art as money instead

 

[Emanuel A.]

Hope digital revolution may help to change the old status quo.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Oh man here we go. Lol I'm sure someone's gonna get off on a rant here in a second to answer that for you.


all kidding aside though they do (Reds higher ups) seem to make themselves available to their customer base a lot more then other companies, and they seem to try to keep everyone happy although that's pretty much impossible sometimes

So far they have made an amazing effort so that almsot everyone who buys their products feels glad they did one year later, for a variety fo reasons. That's worth more than any pixel counts or price ratios or anything else when someone asks themselves "Should I buy a Red?".

Anyway, looks like both Red and Sony, based on how Sony seems to be playing it, can afford to be reasonable rather than force each other to race toward an unsustainable bottom that hurts both current cam owners and the business as a whole.

This is very, very godo news. Go buy yourself a Scarlet. You'll love it.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

LOL Rob, I've given you a good chance for a new post. Without mine, you surely wouldn't have yours now for free ;-) I guarantee this is surprising you. But I am a capitalist With a difference like Clark Kent, I am with the poor artists at times

In any case, I don't think RED has to be concerned with customers like you represent at all. I will even say more... I will praise the day these customers could be out of here or at least to cut their weight in this activity. Hope digital revolution may help to change the old status quo. Hope you understand this is nothing personal, of course. Just movies and moviemakers are my only concern in this craft. Not those who only think art as money instead

Many of the world's greatest directors and DPs of all time made a ton of money and were very cash-aware. Many of the world's greatest directors and DPs don't even use the word art - they call it craft.

There's only so much you can do filming in your buddy's apartment using hardware store lights - and eventually, your buddy will lose patience and not even let you use his apartment anymore. I'm not saying this your situation, but you seem to have rather pernicious counter-productive attitudes toward wealth and money, and if you read up on poverty mentality, your post is a classic example of how it comes to be and really hurts people's lives and potential for happiness. You don;t have to sleep in your car. My contracts stipulate a private room/bathroom at all times.

After a great night's sleep and shower, I'm ready to make some great craft.

 

[Elan Gunos]

Try looking for support here:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/servic...-services-servicesprograms-phonecontact.shtml

or here:
http://esupport.sony.com/


Everything feels walled off, and everything is a one-way conversation. There's no real open discussion. In this day and age, when technology is moving fast and interdependent of other technology, people learn through forums and open discussions—that's super critical moving forward.

Not being confrontational at all but what precisely is this much vaunted 'loyalty' everyone is going on about from Red to their customers? How does it differ from the support of other companies?