Cheapest S35 Scarlet package...

[Jeff Bruno]

Do we even know that the brain will be 7k? Or is that the old price from months ago?

 

[Alan Zarnegar]

Do we even know that the brain will be 7k? Or is that the old price from months ago?

The S35 Scarlet price is probably different now, but as consumers we can only speculate. It's up to the RED team to determine the price that best suits their business model. That said, November 30th should be revealing in more ways than one

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Hey, I never said a person should shoot with the bare-bones package in the first post... I said they could shoot with it. That's the whole point of this thread. It's not about what makes a person a cinematographer. It's about the minimum set of tools necessary to shoot 5K motion pictures with RED equipment.

Yes, one needs ND filters (screw-on or in a mattebox), tripod, audio equipment, external monitor, carrying cases, etc. in order to shoot properly. But you need all those things regardless of what camera you buy.

I just wanted to see what the bare-bones package for an S35 Scarlet package would cost. When you compare it to a similarly configured bare-bones RED ONE package, the difference is quite startling:

RED ONE body: $17500
CF module: $500
RED BRICK: $450
RED Charger: $550
Battery Plate: $175
5.6" LCD: $1700
Nikon mount: $500
8GB CF card: $165
Nikon 50mm f1.8 lens: $130
TOTAL: $21,670

That's a difference of $11,525!!! Yes, one could argue that the RED ONE package has a larger LCD, but really we're talking massive savings once the S35 Scarlet comes out.

Again, this isn't a wish list for anyone. It's merely an analysis of the base cost of the new camera system (assuming the S35 Scarlet brain stays at $7000) in order to compare it to the previous offerings from RED, as well as other camera companies.

I don't know about you, but saving $11K is a big deal for me. :cheers2:

 

[Russ Blaise]

The Nikon mount is electronic, you set the aperture via the camera controls - look at the first render in Jim's announcement - no aperture ring on that RED lens and you can see the electronic contacts in the Canon mount in the image below that too,

As for DX lenses not being full frame, well neither is S35. In fact DX is very close to S35, so yes DX lenses will work on an S35 Scarlet with a Nikon mount, though you might get some slight vignetting with some lenses.

Thanks, Liam. I might just go for the Scarlet S35 instead of the 2/3" model… If I can dig up some extra funds.

I wonder if my DX lens would work better on the Scarlet 2/3" interchangeable model?

 

[Ivan Cortazar]

It seems valid to start a list with the minimal items you'd need to shoot and record an image: a camera, a lens, a battery, a recording medium, etc. Of course the reality is more complicated than that - for example, you can't really shoot outside in daytime without ND's, you'll probably want a tripod and head, etc.

Agree 100%

Not to mention that shooting with a 2,8 inches lcd monitor, might be doable but definitively not ideal. So my advice is figure out the basic set up and then multiply by at least 1.5 if not 2 and that will be your end budget... ;-)

 

[Joe Carney]

I think a more realistic base line is closer to 15K, not 10. But still a great buy if you think about it.

 

[Andy Roberts]

Scarlet 2/3 and Nikon lenses

Scarlet 2/3 and Nikon lenses

I wonder if my DX lens would work better on the Scarlet 2/3" interchangeable model?

I'm a silent observer most of the time on these forums, but I have Nikon glass for my D300 and have asked myself the same question. Short answer is, because the 2/3 is a smaller sensor, your FOV changes drastically, so it isn't as ideal. The S35 maintains a closer relationship with a non-full frame Nikon DSLR in terms of FOV and DOF. The 2/3, while capable of achieving the desired shallow Depth of Field, requires getting very large Aperture lenses to accomplish it, which means probably buying the Red miniPrimes. The thing I like about the 2/3 over the S35 is the max frame rates and the ramping. An ideal set up would be to have both, the 2/3 for its strengths and the S35 for its strengths. Then you have a primary and B camera, and still spend less than for an Epic.

 

[Stefan Immler]

I plan to get a matte box for my camera.
However, for my Nikon gear I use the Cokin filter set.
I bought a huge set with probably 20 filters used for about $50.
( www.cokin.com )

The nice thing about the Cokin is that they allow you to slip in and out different ND values, colors, etc... (and it is fast !)

You screw on the plastic slider and then the filters pop in and out.

You want to put cheap plastic Cokin filters on a 3k sensor camcorder???

 

[J. Brennan]

a few of the posts in this thread have made me scratch my head.

hey, that rhymes.

 

[Chris Kalafarski]

While I have no experience in the motion picture world, I just wanted to say I think I understand where the original poster was coming from. The allure of the RED is its modularity (i.e. allows you to upgrade over time as you have the money) and how far it's bringing down the introductory price point for this kind of technology.

As a working (still) photographer, I definitely understand that making a living and providing reliable service means you need backup bodies, lots of expensive batteries, more flash cards than you can count, fast lenses, tripods, strobes, etc. But I also realize that my setup that costs tens of thousands of dollars is really mostly about covering myself for extreme circumstances (terrible lighting, severe weather, etc), unforeseen failures, that kind of thing. I'm not going to tell someone, though, that without all that gear they can't take good photos. I would tell them that a $400 body with a kit lens is a great way to learn, and over time as their needs start to exceed their equipment they can invest in what they require; they can start with faster 3rd party lenses to save some money but shoot in lower light, then get a cheap strobe, maybe a vertical shutter grip, then upgrade to name brand glass for sharpness...and eventually over time (if they need it) they'll have replaced all the "beginner" eqp. and end up with a "pro" system. They may not be able to cover the NBA finals or a celebrity wedding on day one, but they didn't need to; their system grew with their needs, which was possible with the extremely low barriers to entry.

I think what the original poster was trying to show is that the Scarlett makes that kind of progressive investment in gear and learning a possibility now for motion. Like I said I have no experience with video, so maybe his numbers were off a bit, but I don't think the point was the barebones system was designed to make feature length documentaries. It was simply that there's a new, very low minimum entry point for achieving a certain level of production quality, appropriate for people just getting their feet wet. And that's what makes RED exciting for someone like me; even though the starting price is higher than the $400 you might need in the still photo world, the idea that something that can give me the immediate quality and long-term growth of a RED, even if that means using Home Depot rigs and shuffling compact flash cards ever 10 minutes for the first six months, on a reasonable small business budget is huge. So even if running a $10k RED system won't allow you to do this or that, this and that probably aren't things someone spending $10k on a camera need, so it's still a perfect fit, and one that a week ago wasn't a possibility.

 

[Jeff Bruno]

allows you to upgrade over time as you have the money

Just quoting this. I can't buy everything at release but i'd at least like to have something.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Hi steve very valid point about using screw in filters.

l was wondering if you could help me on one point lm not clear on! a lot of people mention about infra red effecting image quality when using ND filters on red cameras, what is your experience of this.

Coming from the video world its never been a problem.

many thanks andrew

IR contamination can be an issue with RED One in certain lighting conditions. Users constantly seeking wide open apertures on R1 use strong ND, and frequently also IR mirror filters. They're also frequently using artificial lighting kits that can generate IR contamination.

By choice, and the genres and styles I work in, I'm primarily a natural light shooter - although I'm also highly experienced in 4-point and 3-point electronic lighting. The genres (sports, travel, wildlife, music, docs) and styles (hybrid and non-hardlined EFP) I shoot rarely require me to shoot using wide open apertures. My usual apertures range from f4 up to f11, with an occasional f2.8 for shallow DOF on creative close ups, etc. IR contamination with R1 simply hasn't been an issue with me. I use good quality, multi-coated, screw-on ND filters in strengths of 3, 6, and 9 - and no stronger ND than that. Also, I never stack screw-on filters - that's not a good idea.

Since this is an Epic S35 thread, and not an R1 thread, I think everyone needs to keep in mind that RED has been developing the new Mysterium X sensor for some time now. It would not surprise me if the OLPF filter over the sensor, and other properties of the new sensor itself, have advanced technology that highly minimize or eliminate IR contamination problems. We'll know when the Mysterium X equipped cameras are available - until then lets not assume that IR contamination will be an issue with the Mysterium X sensors, or that IR hot mirrors will be needed in certain aperture and lighting conditions, as with R1.

This past weekend RED confirmed that the fixed lens Scarlet has an internal 3-filter ND filter wheel, just like EFP/ENG camera systems. Until the specifications for the other Scarlet models are finalized and released, let's not assume that a 3-filter wheel won't be standard on other Scarlet models. Just a thought...

Hope this info helps you...

 

[Eddy Robinson]

You want to put cheap plastic Cokin filters on a 3k sensor camcorder???

If they look good, why not? I've seen people put a $1.99 nylon stocking over the lens of a Panavision camera...it is not something everyone should do, but something that anyone can do, and decide later whether they like the results.

 

[Shane Nassiri]

Hey nitpickers, maybe not all of us are going to use the camera for the same applications you will? I personally plan on building a basic VDSLR like setup out of the game for stills/basic motion work, and grow it into a full cinema camera over time. You know, really buying into and taking advantage of the whole modular DSMC thing.

Jamie, where did you see that the side handle would include a battery? That'd be awesome if it did. And if I recall right the bottom handle doesn't take batteries.

 

[Eki Halkka]

Maybe I am overlooking something, but without the IO module, how can you record sound??? Are you assuming (with the setup described in this thread) you would shoot double system sound?

The brains have two balanced audio inputs, with phantom power, as well as a headphone out for monitoring so you can record sound without an I/O module.

The caveat is that the connections are done with minijacks, they're not nearly as robust as XLR's. That doesn't affect the actual sound quality, but you'll need to be pretty careful with the adapter cables, a good yank can easily pull out the cable (or break the connector at worst).

 

[Andrew Salter]

Many thanks steve

Been a great help and answered all my questions. Had missed the up date about the ND filter wheel which is great news.

Lets hope your be one of the main testers for the new 2/3 fixed scarlet as l feel with your experience of red and of the industry, especially as this will be one of the main markets for the new scarlet your in put will be invaluable.

 

[Joe Carney]

You can pretty much bet that there will be 3rd party 35mm adapters for the 2/3 fixed lens Scarlet. If the price doesn't go up to much, it will be THE under 10K setup for low budget features.

 

[J. Brennan]

uh, or you could just use that money you would have used to buy the adapter and just buy the S35 scarlet.

 

[Erik Bien]

While I don't imagine it will be one of the more popular options, IIRC several rounds of announcements ago it was mentioned R1 owners could also "execute" their serial numbers by cross-grading or down-grading to a Scarlet at something like a 12% discount on the body.

Now that the music has stopped with regard to transfer of ownership conferring a place in line, what happens to the resale value of second-hand REDs? Even if the cameras hold most of their value for their EPIC trade-in potential, I anticipate it's soon going to be a buyer's market for second-hand first-gen RED accessories, with large numbers of them "orphaned" as the cameras they once adorned are traded in. Yeah, I know: you'll still be able to use the old aks with the new cameras. But really, who's going to use (for example) the big, heavy, flight-restricted, cradle-jumping, contact-pin-bending, little-loved old school RED bricks unless they simply can't afford the new improved batteries?

Imagine you're an R1 owner hoping to move (somewhat laterally) into an S35 Scarlet: for the sake of argument, let's say the "modest price increase" means the body now costs $8K. Is a $960 discount on the new body really going to offset the depreciation on the old body and accessories by the time the S35 Scarlet becomes available? The single RED One owner I know contemplating this "cross-grade" elected instead to sell his RED several months ago, and I suspect, from a purely financial standpoint, it was probably the right move.