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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cheap third party Red MiniMag replacement - JinniMag?

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There is also the rare but real phenonema of the killer SSD to bear in mind. Maybe RED cams have protection designed in to avoid that. There have been some published accounts of DSLR cameras being terminally bricked by their recording media. If a RED media card ever if at all, throws a leg out of bed and fries your camera, you have a better chance of warranty remedy than with a non-authorised third party part in the equation.
 
Robert Hart said:
There is also the rare but real phenonema of the killer SSD to bear in mind. Maybe RED cams have protection designed in to avoid that. There have been some published accounts of DSLR cameras being terminally bricked by their recording media. If a RED media card ever if at all, throws a leg out of bed and fries your camera, you have a better chance of warranty remedy than with a non-authorised third party part in the equation.
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Gonna go out on a limb here and say that if third party media fried your RED, there would be a 0.00% chance of that being covered by warranty. :)
 
Alexander Thomson said:
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that if third party media fried your RED, there would be a 0.00% chance of that being covered by warranty. :)
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Is this a thing?
 
You know it is very possible that Red can implement a qualifying firmware on your SSD's that is read by your camera. Imagine, you load a third party SSD that doesn't have the custom Red firmware or coded number; the camera locks up shuts down and can only be reactivated by RED. Not a good scenario. Now I'm not saying this is going to happen but if Jarrad gets pist-off enough... Every new product RED comes out with there is R&D. R&D is expensive, I doubt there is a huge or significant mark-up on camera bodies (who knows), I am certain profits from RED mag sales pay or help to pay for the amount of R&D that allowed Dragon 6K, Weapon, and Helium to come to life.

Yes, RED 512 Mini mags are expensive, with my trade in It still cost me 14K Canadian. Every time one is loaded in the camera and record button is pressed, I never think to myself - "are these mags going to work, even in the hot Florida sun at midday.

Just say'in.
 
R. Gonzales said:
You know it is very possible that Red can implement a qualifying firmware on your SSD's that is read by your camera. Imagine, you load a third party SSD that doesn't have the custom Red firmware or coded number; the camera locks up shuts down and can only be reactivated by RED. Not a good scenario. Now I'm not saying this is going to happen but if Jarrad gets pist-off enough... Every new product RED comes out with there is R&D. R&D is expensive, I doubt there is a huge or significant mark-up on camera bodies (who knows), I am certain profits from RED mag sales pay or help to pay for the amount of R&D that allowed Dragon 6K, Weapon, and Helium to come to life.

Yes, RED 512 Mini mags are expensive, with my trade in It still cost me 14K Canadian. Every time one is loaded in the camera and record button is pressed, I never think to myself - "are these mags going to work, even in the hot Florida sun at midday.

Just say'in.
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I assume it´s a similar sale tactics as used in the consumer paper printer market. Where the cost to buy a printer is really low (a printer cost just a little bit more then a color cartridge). Same with RED a Raven cost just a little bit more than a 1tb mag.
 
Zeb B said:
In the ink jet printer biz seems that there was a rule put in place that prevented HP, Epson etc from blocking generic ink refills being used. Even if there was a rule for RED accessories/media - I wouldn't use uncertified media on something that has a direct connection to my RED brain. Not worth it bro
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Did did not know about that. Who made that "rule" and who has the right to enforce such thing?
 
Zeb B said:
In the ink jet printer biz seems that there was a rule put in place that prevented HP, Epson etc from blocking generic ink refills being used. Even if there was a rule for RED accessories/media - I wouldn't use uncertified media on something that has a direct connection to my RED brain. Not worth it bro
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Björn Benckert said:
Did did not know about that. Who made that "rule" and who has the right to enforce such thing?
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I think it's a law in the European Union circa 2006. May have led to the manufacturers eliminating the blocking from the ones sold here as well. It was based on the massive amount of cartridges being dumped (as well as printers prematurely since it can be cheaper to buy a new printer than a new set of cartridges.

It's a little different with Red media - I don't think anyone is casually discarding a Redmag and causing overflowing landfills. :wink5:
 
Zeb B said:
In the ink jet printer biz seems that there was a rule put in place that prevented HP, Epson etc from blocking generic ink refills being used. Even if there was a rule for RED accessories/media - I wouldn't use uncertified media on something that has a direct connection to my RED brain. Not worth it bro
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I agree 100%!! Additionally, I wouldn't want to tell a producer their expensive car roll over crash shot wasn't recorded because the third party non approved media I used crapped out. Imagine having to explain yourself.
 
R. Gonzales said:
I agree 100%!! Additionally, I wouldn't want to tell a producer their expensive car roll over crash shot wasn't recorded because the third party non approved media I used crapped out. Imagine having to explain yourself.
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Heh, People who shoot those jobs aren't the targeted market for these mags.

The Jinnimags target are people who don't get upset if they lose a shot... they just ask their friend-actors to re-shoot it. '-)
 
Elsie N said:
Heh, People who shoot those jobs aren't the targeted market for these mags.

The Jinnimags target are people who don't get upset if they lose a shot... they just ask their friend-actors to re-shoot it. '-)
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True, but then they are also going to be posting on reduser about losing media and how to recover. Chances are they also won't first admit they were using knock off media in hopes of getting actual help. I see that as a huge liability to the red reputation.
 
Guys. I currently work in development and couldn't understand jarred more. Even that aside, you are in REDs room here. I am kinda fascinated with those expecting to find a lot of understanding for this when RED explains there is none :)
 
Jarred Land said:
...Most of you will not say " sorry I used a shitty card, my fault" . Most of you will say " The RED camera corrupted the card " .
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'Most' is generous 'All' is more likely... This thread is depressing...

We have shot thousands of TBs over many years and had so very few problems... and when we have had a couple of issues (2 of which ended up as errors on our side) Red had the confidence and expertise to suport us becuase we where on their media...

It is not like each camera need 10x 1tb sticks... Buy the real stuff and forget about it!
 
AJ Aguirre said:
True, but then they are also going to be posting on reduser about losing media and how to recover. Chances are they also won't first admit they were using knock off media in hopes of getting actual help. I see that as a huge liability to the red reputation.
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Yes, that is a possibility.

I think RED will solve any such problems of identifying if anything was shot on anything other than their media in the Metadata. I'm sure they are working on something to thwart the Jinnimag threat.

I guess there is also the possibility the JinniMag works just as well as a REDmag. Not likely but who knows at this stage.

As I said in an earlier post (since amended) I have a full complement of REDmags (some 3 1/2 TBs for a CF Weapon and a Raven.) At the time I said I might buy some of these for use in the case I am unable to offload REDmags during a day's long shoot.

At that time I thought it possible the JinniMag might be accepted as a third party product much like Wooden Camera products were tolerated for years before RED embraced them. RED seems to be looking at this different so I'm not going to be a customer.

At the same time, I'm not going to judge a scrambling new shooter for trying to be both a RED camera owner and a corner-cutter while trying to get a foot hold in the business of shooting content..
 
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Gunleik Groven said:
Guys. I currently work in development and couldn't understand jarred more. Even that aside, you are in REDs room here. I am kinda fascinated with those expecting to find a lot of understanding for this when RED explains there is none :)
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It'sad to see those peaks and even more that Jarred felt the need to explain again and again. Totally agree with you, i couldn't understand him more and i totally get why he's that pissed about the thing itself and a few comments.
 
A few obvious points that have probably already been made:


  1. Anyone serious about their work or their client's work would be a goddamn fool to use knock-off media.
  2. RED has done this professional camera thing better than any other company ever has. The pay-off for having subsidizing this level of equipment by many tens of thousands of dollars (per camera) is that we pay a few more bucks here and there for accessories. Would you rather go back to a world where a 2K digital camera costs $150,000? Because that's how shit was before Jim and Jarred put this thing together.
  3. I see a few idiots posting in this thread about "saving a couple bucks" by buying cheaper mags. You are an absolute f'ing moron if you think that's how you save money. Pissing amateurs man. You'll burn your whole production to save a few dollars on media? You are the absolute last person I ever want to have on set with me. This is the pro series. If you can't hack the prices then your work just isn't ready. That's OK. But don't step into the leagues and try to lower the game for everyone. A lot like buying a car, the best investment is the top-end model of the car you can afford, not the lowest-end model of the car you can't.
  4. Raven is a champ of a little camera. RED pulled off some real wizardry to get new folks into this RED game and give them tools to elevate their work. But on the flip side, now it's endless whining about pricing and cheapskates trying to cut corners. My best advice for anyone posting here is to seriously consider the environment you're in. This is a casual meeting ground for professionals and we all know your real names here. Do you think you'd be the highlife of the industry party if you spent most of the evening bitching about how expensive everything is? Or can you flip that script and recognize the opportunity your ticket in affords to rub shoulders with guys and gals that have made it big in this business and are doing the things you want to be doing? Champ up.

Over and out.

*EDIT: Got two notes from two different people that think this comment is aimed directly at them. It's not. If you (incredibly) support using knock-off media on a production so you can skimp on a few bucks and think it's ok to put work at risk like that, it's pretty damn unprofessional. But I'm not gunning for anyone specifically here. This is a pro group and we're behind closed doors. If we can't share constructive criticism good and bad, where should we?
 
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Rob Anderson said:
A few obvious points that have probably already been made:


  1. Anyone serious about their work or their client's work would be a goddamn fool to use knock-off media.
  2. RED has done this professional camera thing better than any other company ever has. The pay-off for having subsidizing this level of equipment by many tens of thousands of dollars (per camera) is that we pay a few more bucks here and there for accessories. Would you rather go back to a world where a 2K digital camera costs $150,000? Because that's how shit was before Jim and Jarred put this thing together.
  3. I see a few idiots posting in this thread about "saving a couple bucks" by buying cheaper mags. You are an absolute f'ing moron if you think that's how you save money. Pissing amateurs man. You'll burn your whole production to save a few dollars on media? You are the absolute last person I ever want to have on set with me. This is the pro series. If you can't hack the prices then your work just isn't ready. That's OK. But don't step into the leagues and try to lower the game for everyone. A lot like buying a car, the best investment is the top-end model of the car you can afford, not the lowest-end model of the car you can't.
  4. Raven is a champ of a little camera. RED pulled off some real wizardry to get new folks into this RED game and give them tools to elevate their work. But on the flip side, now it's endless whining about pricing and cheapskates trying to cut corners. My best advice for anyone posting here is to seriously consider the environment you're in. This is a casual meeting ground for professionals and we all know your real names here. Do you think you'd be the highlife of the industry party if you spent most of the evening bitching about how expensive everything is? Or can you flip that script and recognize the opportunity your ticket in affords to rub shoulders with guys and gals that have made it big in this business and are doing the things you want to be doing? Champ up.

Over and out.
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Heh, that's a nice Percheron you are condescending down from. '-)
 
Hi, Raven peasant here.

I think Rob makes some good points. Sure, the tone is a bit strong, but can you blame him?

If anyone here is thinking about using knockoff media then you need to be educated about why that's not okay, and accept that whatever you're shooting must be open to failure, because it will happen. And when it does happen, will you have the integrity to blame yourself and the media? Hell no. This business is cutthroat. You will blame the RED. And therein lies the problem. I gotta back RED on this one...this crosses the line.
 
Zeb B said:
Don't invite Raven peasants to your fancy dinner party unless you want Raven peasants at your fancy dinner party ;-)

RED could have stayed with Scarlet-W as the minimum buy-in. They did not. You might need to adjust to the new reality that there is now eBay budget RED Camera Owner's here
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It has nothing at all to do with affordability. It's what corners folks may choose to cut and how that inconsideration can cause a production to turn to chaos (at best) or a business model like RED's to fall down on top of us. Some guys are making this about money -- that's missing the point. It's not about money.
 
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