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Cheap third party Red MiniMag replacement - JinniMag?

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Nathan DuMoulin

Nathan DuMoulin

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I just stumbled across this on the Red Scarlet-W Facebook group. It reads:

Coming Soon: Affordable, Fully Compatible RED Mags
JinniMag: 1.0 TB
• 150G Shock Resistance
• Natural Heat Control Design
• 17.5 Million Hours MTBF
• Advanecd Error Correction Algorithm
• 1500MB/s Write & 2500Mb/s read theoretical speed
(actual speed depends on the host device)


I find this very surprising, as I just assumed that Red MiniMags and Red Touch monitors accounted for a large portion of Red's income (they seemed like the highest markups by a significant margin). To offer licensing out to 3rd parties seemed unlikely, and yet, these new JinniMags ads have the Red logo right on them.

Has Red endorsed this, or is this a lawsuit in the making?

EDIT: Thanks Phil for the info. Apparently this is a scam. With modern V-NAND tech, the product is indeed feasible at the speeds advertised, and at a much lower price point than current MiniMags. Is the product simply unauthorized by Red, or just made up entirely?
 
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As Jarred mentioned earlier today via the online discussion on the book of face, this is a scam.

While enticing, his word is gospel regarding media.
 
Phil Holland said:
As Jarred mentioned earlier today via the online discussion on the book of face, this is a scam.

While enticing, his word is gospel regarding media.
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in Phil.

Curious though, with modern V-NAND tech, the product is indeed feasible at the speeds advertised, and at a much lower price point than current MiniMags. Is the product simply unauthorized by Red, or just made up entirely?
 
From what i gather, redmags use expensive but super reliable SLC flash memory, meaning each cell is 1bit

the JinniMag implies it uses samsung's TLC 3D vnand and stores 3bits per cell.



SLC is Single Level Cell, and is the most expensive, best-performing, and longest-lasting. It stores one bit per cell.
MLC is Multi-Level Cell, and is the middle ground for expense, performance, and longevity. It stores two bits per cell.
TLC is Triple-Level Cell, and is the least expensive, worst performer, and has the shortest life expectancy. It stores three bits per cell.


All things being equal and if RED doesn't move to block JinniMAG,
and based on my own experiences with samsung's 3D vnand in 1TB and 2TB configs,
You may run into occasional file corruptions based on this approach vs REDMAGS SLC flash
 
Nathan DuMoulin said:
Is the product simply unauthorized by Red, or just made up entirely?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing both,
especially considering taking 1,500 pre-orders based on just 3D renders and no working prototype.
 
Doesn't RED use a proprietary interface?
 
Buying any electronic non-authorized 3rd party product for a RED camera is a VERY bad idea.

The DSMC/DSMC2 cameras knows what is connected to it, or attached to it.

Do NOT waste your money - you will be sorry.
 
First consideration. You would only have yourself to blame if something goes wrong. Jim and Jarred have both stressed how important - and backing it up, how thoroughly they test their media - before it is released to the market. If you lose a one take shot, use of unauthorized media is a simple way for an insurance company to deny a claim. By the way, your reputation would move to below swamp water status at the same time without passing GO.

Does it cost more for the RED media? Sure - but none of us have any idea what percentage never makes it past their QC for sale to their customers. I distinctly remember asking about them releasing some of the initial rejects just for shading, firmware updates and such. They justified why not very succinctly.
At the time, the thought was that it would be nice to carry current and one-back builds on location without a computer on an affordable, low capacity SSD.
Eventually, they addressed that need...

Would you be willing to risk your next project on a supposition that another manufacturers QC and testing would be on par?
Does "compatibility" mean that they will guarantee the sustainable data rates at low compression / high frame rates?
Would it work with what RED has on the drawing board - never mind what's around the corner?

If you buy it and it works today, are you sure it would work after the next firmware update?

Lots of questions with quite a few unknowns.
 
The lessen to be learned here is that this is not the first time 3rd party media has been tried and as many know, RED can and will limit what gets used in terms of media. There are fast, large capacity CF cards available that would be very tempting for Red One owners, but they won't work properly on a Red One.

Mark is right, regardless of the intentions of the JinniMag, and for all I know those intentions may in fact be to help the indie community with affordable media, I'm pretty sure based on past experience this will not work out. But we'll wait for Jarred to speak for RED.
 
What i read there doesn't sound like the best way to introduce yourself as the producer of a product that probably violates patents, copyrights and what not. Copying things is not making things, everyone knows and see's that. Being online for a day or two and already attacking the big lion with questionable arguments? Starting a fight, not even trying to get along, with the one big company you rely on? ;) Well, that's the way to go. Not smart.

Cheaper/bigger media would be nice, sure thing. But i'll not even consider putting money on such a crucial piece of kit when it's coming this way and from someone who's trying to hurt RED and Team. This is also a personal thing.

Hey, we all knew the media-situation and pricing, when we jumped in and bought RED.

So i guess Jarred will take care of it and unleash some Dragons. I wouldn't wonder seeing this gone as quick as it popped up.
 
Can anyone confirm if Red owns a patent on the MiniMag connector or associated components? Basically anything protected that needs to be licensed in order for JinniMag to sell these?

Expecting 1500 pre-orders (nearly 3 million dollars) and not shipping for six months suggests the guy is talking shit before he even has a working prototype. Im all for lowering the barrier to entry with affordable media, but this guy is just asking for it. Jarred sue him into the ground. ;)
 
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Nathan DuMoulin said:
Can anyone confirm if Red owns a patent on the MiniMag connector or associated components? Basically anything protected that needs to be licensed in or for JinniMag to sell these?

Expecting 1500 pre-orders and not shipping for six months suggests the guy is talking shit before he even has a working prototype. Jarred, sue this guy into the ground. ;)
Click to expand...
Connector, housing and then especially the custom firmware, which is probably protected by encryption too. All those things need to be licenced or cloned, copied, reverse engineered, hacked...

I guess that's just very basic thinking. A lawyer will have some fun with that.

And yes, it smells like an attempt to scam people. Get some pre-order-money and run away, who knows.
 
Would i use it myself? not until its tried and tested and firmware safe and not pissing anybody off...
If i was a student who sold my grans gold tooth and the cat to hustle a old scarlet kit? probably...

:lurk5:
 
Last time I checked, anyone ripping off a patent never really cared about the legal ramifications? NAB 2016 was the year of Chinese knockoffs. Your dealing with international patent litigation. That stuff takes forever!
Perfect example. Hoverboards. Every single hoverboard you have ever seen was a patent infringement. Segway owns the patent to that gyro tech but look how long it took them to actually get that enforced and get them off the market. They sold millions of hoverboards before the courts caught up. Just enough time to make a shit ton of $$$. If its popular, someone WILL rip it off. Not a matter of IF but WHEN.
RED makes great media but it is not bullet proof. Take a scroll through REDuser and find many instances of RED media failing. Arri's don't use RED media. They MUST lose footage all the time with that inferior media!
I commend you all for being such die hard RED fans but I wouldn't be so quick to judge a product before it even hits shelves. Let's go back to RED's early days when most people very well could call RED Vaporware. How long did some of you wait for your camera after putting down a deposit for a RED1? A little competition on RED's high priced media isn't such a bad thing.
RED opened its doors to indie filmmakers with their 2 low end cameras and the response was so overwhelming they can't keep up. Previous to the low end cameras there wasn't a market for 3rd party mags because the RED userbase was so small and dedicated to the RED brand. Things are much different now. Sure, some of you won't buy them because RED's name isn't on it, but there is a large group of people who will buy them, who will use them and who will capture great imagery on them.
 
From Jarred:
This is not legit.. not certified... not endorsed and will never be because it's bullshit . Even if this was real there are too many inaccuracies and violations going on here to list but I figure you all are smart enough to see through this.
Click to expand...
 
They say they are in the U.K., but that is suspect after reading the sentence structure of the post quoting their answers to questions.
 
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To me, it doesn't matter if the product is good or not. It's a rip-off. And it's a direct attack on RED and all the hard working people of that company. That's not about competition, it is about stealing a piece of the cake.

When you shot your movie, start to sell it and then see it pop up pirated copies on the market. Is that competition?
 
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