Carbon Weapon Upgrade/New Order Update -

[scott devitte]

can not agree more.
But this time around I fooled my self thinking that if weapon upgrades is out by the summer, as was the first time estimate. then buying a forge instead of upgrading was not likely to pay of and 8k coming before christmas was another reason not to buy into forge and instead do the upgrade.

But well I guess this round of upgrades once again shows that best practice is actually get your camera in line for upgrade, and then also buy as many as you can afford. As It´s no doubt that when 8k forged is out it will be quite easy to sell such for a prime price.

I did buy the top of the line Red camera when it came out. At NAB last year Weapon CF8k was announced and I pounced as soon orders opened. Later came forged and what was the top of the line Red no longer was. That was not a pleasant surprise and 9 months later still no CF. And now- who knows? So when you say buy the top of the line when it is announced, those of us that did don't really get how your logic applies to us do we?

 

[Raphael Varandas]

MIne is packed waiting the flight to travel back home.
And the money is already in RED account...
Cheers

 

[Mark Toia]

I did buy the top of the line Red camera when it came out. At NAB last year Weapon CF8k was announced and I pounced as soon orders opened. Later came forged and what was the top of the line Red no longer was. That was not a pleasant surprise and 9 months later still no CF. And now- who knows? So when you say buy the top of the line when it is announced, those of us that did don't really get how your logic applies to us do we?

Yeah that would suck a bit.

You still have the Epic Dragons though mate. It's not all bad.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

This makes no sense to me, what I think I am hearing you say is that people that ordered at NAB are now placed behind new orders. I have been in touch with my bomb squad and he hasn't received the go ahead for me to send in the camera. Where this is driving me crazy is first the forge guys jumped ahead in line, now it's new camera's that jumped ahead in line ... all with people that ordered upgrade in the early mourning of NAB. Also if you guys are still on CF to woven upgrades, I just wonder how many of those there are, it doesn't make any sense to me that RED is like 3 months late in processing cameras for the camera's that we were able to buy via the website at NAB. I really wasn't expecting 8k this year, I view that as rocket science with a lot of testing, but I was expecting the 6k woven weapon order this year - I must have completly miss read everything you guys said on deliverying weapon this year for those that upgraded at NAB.

Agree!!

M

 

[Jarred Land]

I did buy the top of the line Red camera when it came out. At NAB last year Weapon CF8k was announced and I pounced as soon orders opened. Later came forged and what was the top of the line Red no longer was. That was not a pleasant surprise and 9 months later still no CF. And now- who knows? So when you say buy the top of the line when it is announced, those of us that did don't really get how your logic applies to us do we?

Scott.. I understand you are upset but you got your facts wrong. Forged wasn't a new camera announced later on.. Forged was the first Weapon that was shown and announced at NAB, and it was announced as a limited edition... and started taking orders the first day of NAB via direct rep orders only. Normal

and "9 months later and no CF" is not a fair statement unless you are just talking about your specific order. We have been shipping camera upgrades all day long for months...including Carbon Fiber cameras. We started shipping cameras exactly when we said we would start shipping when we announced them at NAB.. How close to you are to that date that we start shipping depends on when you put your order in, hence what Probst is saying. The line gets really long really fast, just like it always does.

Im sorry your number may not have been called yet.. but the fault of that is from the upgrade process being a slow process. An unpredictable process that is completely out of control as we are completely at the mercy of the customers sending in their cameras in due time. the same thing happens every time we do this, and we get the same amount of hate mail over it. But again, it's up to our customers. We don't get upset when they say they will send in their cameras the next day and they dont show up.... it usually means it;s because our customers are working with their cameras, and that is a good thing. And as I said before... if we tell them "too bad you didnt send your camera in time , we are skipping you to goto the next guy..." then all hell would break loose.

The only thing we do have control of is shipping new cameras to customers who also are in backorder because of the above... so that's what we are fixing here.

 

[scott devitte]

Jarred, thanks for responding. At NAB, I don't remember any mention of Forged being available when ordering opened. I did contact my Rep as soon as it became apparent later that it was for sale but it made no sense as 8k is what I am after and it didn't offer any bump in the 8k line as you have expressed. If it makes any difference, I have seen others express here that 8k is what they are after and would be willing to wait to do the upgrades all at once. I have to say that I am somewhat of that opinion now because there is no way to plan on when I would even be getting cf upgrade. So my question- because Brent has stated that 8k upgrades will be slow, is there any way from our time stamp on our 8k orders that we could make a reasonable quess as to when we would be getting 8K cameras? I am out of the country a lot and doing two upgrades seems like it just doubles the uncertainty.

 

[Mark Toia]

Well. I've known the RED boys long enough to know there isn't any deception or conspiracies going on. Yes they do give cameras first to the big tent pole movie productions for obvious reasons. And maybe to a small handful of RED USERS that give their time over and above to better the RED cause.

But the rest of us fall into a proper line. And please don't think your missing out, its not like the EPIC is dead, the opposite in fact.
I shoot all over the planet, and when I turn up to a rental house in what ever country I'm in and they don't have all the propper accessories for the Weapon or even have a weapon, I immediately fall back onto the EPIC without flinching, why because they are still fricken awesome.

Even though some of you guys are fretting that your falling behind on not having the latest tech, know that the current camera is still knocking out images far better than you'll be able to master out.
Remember that your images get reduced in size and bitrate to get onto air on even cinema, let not even talk about WEB compression.

I had a young guy showed me his latest DP reel the other day, the images absolutely stunning !!!! he told me his camera he was using was a RED ONE MX !!!!... What's that say about old tech !

Everyone should settle, RED have made digital cameras that capture images miles ahead of mastering output, this means that even 6-7 year old RED CAMERAS have and will last longer than most other current digital cameras. (thank god)
The race to get the latest tech may give you slightly better images under a microscope. But the reality is you have a camera already that gives you more than you need.

My thinking has been like Chris Probst for many many years, I had to have the latest greatest and would pay more to jump line, but of late... I've sort of relaxed about it. I'm not falling behind, I'm now just cruising with an amazing very well sorted camera, and I'll trade up when it starts to get a few rattles. Bit like my car habit.

Everyone should chillax.

Life is good.
I'm just happy that JIM even decided to invent these monsters !!

 

[scott devitte]

Mark, your points are well taken, and as you say the Dragons we have are wonderful.

 

[Jarred Land]

Jarred, thanks for responding. At NAB, I don't remember any mention of Forged being available when ordering opened. I did contact my Rep as soon as it became apparent later that it was for sale but it made no sense as 8k is what I am after and it didn't offer any bump in the 8k line as you have expressed. If it makes any difference, I have seen others express here that 8k is what they are after and would be willing to wait to do the upgrades all at once. I have to say that I am somewhat of that opinion now because there is no way to plan on when I would even be getting cf upgrade. So my question- because Brent has stated that 8k upgrades will be slow, is there any way from our time stamp on our 8k orders that we could make a reasonable quess as to when we would be getting 8K cameras? I am out of the country a lot and doing two upgrades seems like it just doubles the uncertainty.

Thanks Scott. If your waiting for your 6k is giving you a headache... then you will want to stay the hell away from the 8k line. We will be shipping more 6K cameras in a day than we will be 8K cameras per month for at least the next couple months. 8K Weapon is the most incredible thing that we have ever made.. but it is a very, very slow moving train.

 

[Kristin Stewart]

It would be nice to have a time delivery estimate for the people who are putting a deposit on a camera body, for instance the Raven. Because "shipping will start in March" isn't very helpful if some people will have to wait till September to get theirs. Wouldn't it be possible to add this info when people are ordering their camera body ?

Thanks,

Kristin

 

[Björn Benckert]

Scott.. I understand you are upset but you got your facts wrong. Forged wasn't a new camera announced later on.. Forged was the first Weapon that was shown and announced at NAB, and it was announced as a limited edition... and started taking orders the first day of NAB via direct rep orders only. Normal

and "9 months later and no CF" is not a fair statement unless you are just talking about your specific order. We have been shipping camera upgrades all day long for months...including Carbon Fiber cameras. We started shipping cameras exactly when we said we would start shipping when we announced them at NAB.. How close to you are to that date that we start shipping depends on when you put your order in, hence what Probst is saying. The line gets really long really fast, just like it always does.

Im sorry your number may not have been called yet.. but the fault of that is from the upgrade process being a slow process. An unpredictable process that is completely out of control as we are completely at the mercy of the customers sending in their cameras in due time. the same thing happens every time we do this, and we get the same amount of hate mail over it. But again, it's up to our customers. We don't get upset when they say they will send in their cameras the next day and they dont show up.... it usually means it;s because our customers are working with their cameras, and that is a good thing. And as I said before... if we tell them "too bad you didnt send your camera in time , we are skipping you to goto the next guy..." then all hell would break loose.

The only thing we do have control of is shipping new cameras to customers who also are in backorder because of the above... so that's what we are fixing here.

Don't you see it? We don´t care, for us you are Santa Claus and you told us christmas....

ActuallyI think it´s pretty fair. It´s the same order as before where people (me among others) could buy epic M long before red one upgrades started shipping. And for RED it ´s possibly much better to get more dineros in before the annual year end than after. As selling cameras new brings in more money then trading new cameras for old and getting a little bit of money in between.

Just as for every one that waits for their upgrade and has their economic calendar year starting over first of jan this new order could possibly bring on a bit of costs not accounted for. Personally I have to pay 20% extra tax (companyy profit tax) if I have my "weapon money" on my account after the newyear. So for me paying in advance would not be a problem, on the contrary.

 

[Etienne Perrin]

Personally I have to pay 20% extra tax (companyy profit tax) if I have my "weapon money" on my account after the newyear. So for me paying in advance would not be a problem, on the contrary.

Almost the same problem for me, could be better for my company to pay the camera before January 1st for the taxes! Strange world.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Almost the same problem for me, could be better for my company to pay the camera before January 1st for the taxes! Strange world.

Yes it´s strange, the month when nobody really want to hold on to their precious dove and or get rid of all their inventory

 

[Luke Neumann]

Getting the camera early and all of that would not be affected by moving away from upgrades. You just put in one of the first pre orders just like you put in for one of the first upgrades.

Its kind of funny that people are defending it so much. Look at the numbers...there would be hardly any difference. Maybe you pay a little more but I BET you get your camera faster.

 

[Maik Müller]

Personally I have to pay 20% extra tax (companyy profit tax) if I have my "weapon money" on my account after the newyear. So for me paying in advance would not be a problem, on the contrary.

Hmmm, translation might suck a little here, but can't you just do an "earmarked reserve"? Thats exactly the scenario for such a move.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I don't understand what the fuss is about - the faster RED moves all of their camera orders, the faster everyone gets their cameras. Once the upgrade bottleneck moves, then RED can start focusing on 8K upgrades. Rising tide lifts all boats, and all that.

I think the days of riding the earliest wave of adoption, while not over entirely, still require that you do what Christopher Probst has suggested - pay the mostest for the fastest....that window has become more difficult to capitalize on, which means you really need to just have your contacts and projects lined up as fast and deep as possible, to make the money back once your camera is delivered.

 

[Elsie N]

I don't understand what the fuss is about - the faster RED moves all of their camera orders, the faster everyone gets their cameras. Once the upgrade bottleneck moves, then RED can start focusing on 8K upgrades. Rising tide lifts all boats, and all that.

I think the days of riding the earliest wave of adoption, while not over entirely, still require that you do what Christopher Probst has suggested - pay the mostest for the fastest....that window has become more difficult to capitalize on, which means you really need to just have your contacts and projects lined up as fast and deep as possible, to make the money back once your camera is delivered.

Very good point.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Just don't plan on doing anything with the 8K until you've got it in your hands. Don't promise clients anything, just plan with what you have at the moment and when the time comes you can start making 8K projects. If you plan a project based on a loose estimate about when you get the camera, that's never ever never ever a good idea.

 

[Elsie N]

Just don't plan on doing anything with the 8K until you've got it in your hands. Don't promise clients anything, just plan with what you have at the moment and when the time comes you can start making 8K projects. If you plan a project based on a loose estimate about when you get the camera, that's never ever never ever a good idea.

Agreed, unless you are in full control of the project. That is, you can think on your feet and adapt.

 

[Leroy Jackson]

heh heh. I know.. lots of people still waiting ready and able... this always happens. And boy o boy do people get pissed off when they get skipped to another person behind them in line.

It is like when some people may be sitting in traffic not paying attention for whatever reason and a gap in front of them opens up and another driver slips in ahead of them and they go apeshit on them and yell and flip them the bird.... even though technically, it was their fault for creating that gap in the first place

LMAOOOOO