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Cant find a great wide angle Lens option for Weapon 6K - WTF?

Brody_B

Brody_B

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Ok, I am starting to lose my mind trying to find the best wide angle lens option for my Weapon Dragon 6k sensor. I have rented lenses, I have looked almost everywhere, and I have done tons of research, but still none of them seem to fit right.
I really hope you guys can help lead me to the right one, for the last 3 weeks I have hit a wall and just cant figure this damn thing out. Let me explain what I already have, and what I am looking for. I am sure I am missing some things so any experienced help is very much appreciated.

I already own the Otus 28mm, 55mm, and 85mm. 28mm is just not very wide with S35 sensor.

Required Specs: I am looking for a focal length around 18 to 21mm, a prime lens, a sharp lens, EF mount, absolutely needs to cover the 6k Dragon sensor at 6k, budget is not a concern.


LENS RESEARCH SO FAR:

Zeiss 18mm CP.2 - Not sure how sharp it really is. Seems ok but the aperture isn't very fast. Won't get that background/foreground blur in most situations. and i.e. no low light benefits.

Zeiss Milvus and Distagon etc. - Not very sharp I hear. Milvus is definitely pretty soft.

Schneider 18mm Cine-Xenar III - Doesn't cover Dragon sensor at full 6k. (again so I have read) and a bummer cause I really like the look of these.

Schneider 18mm Xenon FF - Cover Dragon 6K, but from what I have read they have major CA problems.

Sigma Art 20mm - It is very cheap, and aside from the obvious areas this cheaper photo lens doesn't offer, the image just doesn't compare to my Otus set. I have a feeling I will constantly be thinking I need better glass on the front of my Weapon, and that will pretty much bother me every day I use it.

Canon 24mm Cine lens - Don't seem to be very sharp, color is not great, and their widest is 24mm just not wide enough.

Cooke 18mm S4mini - Vignettes at 6K with certain stops (so I have read) honestly haven't looked as much into this one as the others.

Lecia Summilux-C and Summacron-C - Very very pricey, Just can't justify paying that much for 1 lens just yet. Price is a factor when its $30k+ for 1 lens. Also have no EF mount option, and did I mention its pricey?

Lecia Elmarit M 18mm - No EF mount option.

Red Pro Primes - Haven't heard or seen great things from these. Their cameras are certainly great tho.


There were others not worth listing cause they don't cover 6K dragon sensor.

So, what else is out there that works along the lines of my specs? I assume I am not the only one with these same requirements for a wide angel lens.
 
Lenses are not cheap, professional high quality lenses are made from a very expensive process and the precision involved with making high quality glass like the Summicron-Cs is extreme and therefor the prices are according to that process. You have to cut down on something in order to afford lenses, be it mid-range cine lenses or converted still lenses.

You also want consistency, so you want a set of lenses that are the same, not spread them out between brands. You might feel the Canons aren't sharp, I would argue against that since I've tested the mid-range lenses available and found that the sharpest between the CP.2s, the Schneiders, Xeens and Canons would be the Canon CN-Es. Treat them as T2.0 and they beat the crap out of most. They also have a 16mm cine-lens that covers FF which most don't even come close to, it gives a very interesting image on the Dragon 6K.

You might also try out the Celere HS lenses, which are new. There's a 24mm there and it has the look and feel of Cookes and Leicas. They aren't sharp if that's what your after, but they have a character that nothing in the mid-range come close to. They are also trying to release a 18,5mm T1.4 lens that covers full frame which would be a worlds first.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Lenses are not cheap, professional high quality lenses are made from a very expensive process and the precision involved with making high quality glass like the Summicron-Cs is extreme and therefor the prices are according to that process. You have to cut down on something in order to afford lenses, be it mid-range cine lenses or converted still lenses.

You also want consistency, so you want a set of lenses that are the same, not spread them out between brands. You might feel the Canons aren't sharp, I would argue against that since I've tested the mid-range lenses available and found that the sharpest between the CP.2s, the Schneiders, Xeens and Canons would be the Canon CN-Es. Treat them as T2.0 and they beat the crap out of most. They also have a 16mm cine-lens that covers FF which most don't even come close to, it gives a very interesting image on the Dragon 6K.

You might also try out the Celere HS lenses, which are new. There's a 24mm there and it has the look and feel of Cookes and Leicas. They aren't sharp if that's what your after, but they have a character that nothing in the mid-range come close to. They are also trying to release a 18,5mm T1.4 lens that covers full frame which would be a worlds first.
Click to expand...

Just saying. The wide summilux C´s don't cover 6k FF. A good 18mm is difficult for dragon FF. And it sucks to have to punch in to 5k and get both the different grain structure and the less resolution together with the often higher stop that the wide lenses come with and not to mention the lack in sharpens compared to longer glas.

I used the wide UPs a lot and especially the Distagon 8mm. it vinjets in the corners of 6k but it holds sharpens quite well and if making it perfectly flat in post most of the vignetting is gone. For being such an ultra vide lens it´s quite remarkably good.
 
Phil is right that Zeiss 15mm is a very sharp contemporary lens, And I think would hold up well next to Otus, and has Zeiss charachter. But then 15mm is a long ways from 28mm.

You might test the Canon 16-35 V2 (2.8) is a pretty sharp lens and would give you some focal range option.

Then maybe take a look at the Leica R 19mm V2. (2.8).

Lastly the Sigma 18-35mm (1.8) is a nice sharp lens. Its a bit flarey but could be worth a look. The 1.8 will help with OOF back-ground. tough to find wide's that are fast that don't cost 10's of thousands, so stills glass is the arena to look.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Just saying. The wide summilux C´s don't cover 6k FF. A good 18mm is difficult for dragon FF. And it sucks to have to punch in to 5k and get both the different grain structure and the less resolution together with the often higher stop that the wide lenses come with and not to mention the lack in sharpens compared to longer glas.

I used the wide UPs a lot and especially the Distagon 8mm. it vinjets in the corners of 6k but it holds sharpens quite well and if making it perfectly flat in post most of the vignetting is gone. For being such an ultra vide lens it´s quite remarkably good.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the Summicron-Cs not the summiluxes, which is a different set. Other than that, most FF lenses are actually in the mid-range area so I would suggest the CN-E 16mm, it's not distorting the image and covers FF, which very few lenses do at that wide angle.

But if you want character, the Celere HS are a good priced set that covers FF and of course 6K Dragon. If going wide angle, and if sharpness is key as well as EF mount, then I would also suggest the Otus lenses as Phil did. Yes, they aren't cine lenses, but if you want to have FF cine-lenses that are really good there's not much to go around right now. Maybe the high end companies will release Vista Vision versions of the ones we all love, the Cookes, Leicas, Masters etc. but that will take time and will probably not happen when we have 8K s35mm around the corner.
 
Tokina 11-20 2.8? It's a really great lens and should cover dragon. It covers full frame 35 from 16-20mm.
 
I would look at the Zeiss Contax 21mm/f2.8. I think would work well with your Otus lenses, and a cinevised version with Leitax EF mount added is less than $2500.
 
The Sigma Art 20mm is really good? I find it better than the zeiss.
You shouldn't just dismiss it because of the brand.

The 18m red pro prime don't cover 6k and is the worse lens of an otherwise really cool set.
The CP2 18mm is not good.

Schneiders I can't tell, it's been too long, 6k wasn't released.
Leica SummiXXX doesn't cover 6k on the full set. Though The Leica Van Diemen are fine and should cover 6k+. I remember they were not the sharpest but totally gorgeous.
 
Phil Holland said:
If you own the Otus, check the Zeiss 15mm.
Click to expand...

Yep, and I bet a Milvus version is on the horizon. No specific info, it's just a perfect candidate.
 
From the DXO comparison, the Sigma 20mm f1.4 is much closer to the Otus in rating as the 15mm Zeiss and faster but of course not as wide.
Sure - rating is not all. But I wouldn't easily dismiss the Sigma without truly testing it. The new Sigma Art are pretty amazing.

I had to compare the 20mm Sigma to the 55mm Otus, because the 28 hasn't been tested by DXO yet. So it makes for a strange comparison, but still it shows how well the 20 performs.
http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Sigma-20mm-F14-DG-HSM-A-Canon-on-Canon-EOS-5DS-R-versus-Zeiss-Carl-Zeiss-Distagon-T-STAR-Otus-55mm-F14-ZE-Canon-on-Canon-EOS-5DS-R-versus-Zeiss-Carl-Zeiss-Distagon-T-15mm-F28-ZE-Canon-on-Canon-EOS-5DS-R__1632_1009_1241_1009_929_1009

If you want to stick to Zeiss, maybe check out the Milvus 21mm f2.8 – haven't tested it myself so I can't comment on performance, but as I gather it, the Milvus are the "poor-man's" Otus ;) and the feel of these is definitely showing it.
http://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/en_de/camera_lenses/milvus/milvus2821.html

Gloomy sea by Carl Zeiss Lenses, on Flickr
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I was talking about the Summicron-Cs not the summiluxes, which is a different set. Other than that, most FF lenses are actually in the mid-range area so I would suggest the CN-E 16mm, it's not distorting the image and covers FF, which very few lenses do at that wide angle.

But if you want character, the Celere HS are a good priced set that covers FF and of course 6K Dragon. If going wide angle, and if sharpness is key as well as EF mount, then I would also suggest the Otus lenses as Phil did. Yes, they aren't cine lenses, but if you want to have FF cine-lenses that are really good there's not much to go around right now. Maybe the high end companies will release Vista Vision versions of the ones we all love, the Cookes, Leicas, Masters etc. but that will take time and will probably not happen when we have 8K s35mm around the corner.
Click to expand...

Sorry my bad, read it wrong. But I don't think the summicrons cover 6k on the wide range. Not sure, but thats what I remember.

The difficulty is to find a fast wide 6k coverage lens that hold good lens resolution and don't fish bowl to much or go to dark in the corners. Like a clean rectilinear 6kFF fast lens... Is something I just have not found so far. I tried al the usual expansive suspects also tried the other end of the spectrum and our last production we used a PL converted Peleng and shot some grids and made it less fishy and removed some other artefacts in post. That lens does not cover but it´s seriously wide and got pretty cool character and price.
 
Had the Ruby lens which is a rehoused Nikon 14-24mm t2.8 Wide Zoom..
I wish Otus line would come out with a 18mm @ f1.4
 
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