I have an bank breaking (for me) amount of money invested in both RED and Birger to use with my Canon and other stills glass. It's been very frustrating watching the relationship deteriorate and being unable to do anything about it.
If I lived over in the States, I'd have been getting all parties together and been willing to broker negotiations and enforcement of warranty agreements, just so that my golden investment doesn't turn to base metal, but sadly I'm too far away. :sad:
While Scarlet and Epic will bring a built in solution, anyone buying a used RED or for whatever reason not able to afford to upgrade when Scarlet and Epic arrive, will be without an approved solution for using their own affordable stills glass. There are also high-end users with bigger budgets, such as Gibby, that also want a smart light stills lens solution for RED One. And until, Scarlet and Epic ship, it's currently the lightest remote lens focus solution for the RED One for Steadicam use.
I second Stephen Pruitt's call for some sort of reconciliation.
It's sometimes hard to admit poor decisions when one has a lot riding on a product, but I think Erik needs to make the first move and admit that things developed which went beyond the terms of the agreement reached to keep RED warranty. In the end, it's the responsibility of 3rd party accessory manufacturer's to do everything reasonably possible to keep the 1st party happy.
However, understandably Jarred will be reluctant to go where he's been burned at least once if not twice! But, if not, then a surely significant proportion of RED's user base will be in a really bad place.
Even if RED came up with their own low cost smart, user installable/adjustable, Canon EF stills lens and remote control accessories for the RED One today, users who went the Birger/stills glass route will often not have the budget to buy another system, especially as that would essentially make their almost new Birger secondhand value plummet.
As we've seen with the other non-delivering/delayed/buggy 3rd party stills lens mounts and lens controls, designing and manufacturing an affordable yet professional level smart mount and controls is far from quick & easy, and even more difficult if they're tiny single man operations, despite their undoubted technical ability.
The profit margins shrinking to very slim, if not zero, here have probably been the single biggest issue leading to all the communications, debugging and delivery time problems we've seen. But also retention of intellectual property (Birger firmware, RED i/pin), control of company directions (RED didn't want to develop every possible accessory, Birger also has other pre-existing non-RED industrial clients), and oversight of modifications (the geographic separation of the two companies being a possible barrier).
So where do we go from here?
What I'd like to see in my perfect fantasy is:
1) RED (out of the bottomless goodness of their heart!) provides some free/subsidised low cost workshop and machining space at RED HQ in Vegas or California capable of manufacturing the Birger EF mount/controls for RED One, but also crucially separately able to service Birger's existing non-RED related business clients in confidence as he needs to keep that non-RED business going.
Why would RED want to do this? Birger are the only currently viable manufacturer of this specific type of accessory for the RED One, and RED does not want to manufacture it themselves, and existing RED Birger users can't afford/don't want to spend even more money.
2) Birger temporarily relocates operations to Vegas or California until they have a rock solid Birger mount solution which does everything it's currently able to do without bugs and without potential RED warranty issues. The geographical co-location allows easy consultation with RED over new designs, facilitates RED drop in visits to monitor modifications, easy face-to-face communications, elimination of the infamous "radio silences". Birger could also buy into the RED shipping and postage infrastructure, and take advantage of RED's economy of scale there.
Why would Birger want to do this, with the inevitable stresses and strains of a relocation far away from home, friends and family with a new baby, albeit temporarily? Well, if the Birger EF mount fails in the market, all his investment in work, money and emotion for two or more years is for nought, future revenue stream from this product is cut off, professional reputation fallout is high, personal pride is damaged, personal stress probably impacts health.
3) Birger one-man band gets some much needed additional man-power. This is probably the trickiest thing to overcome.
As an engineer myself, albeit at a much lower level, I can guess that his long term work in Canon EF protocol firmware and interface is probably something he wants to keep close to his chest. Giving other workers access to his workshop will involve giving up some of his privacy and open up a possibility of loss of his IP in his work. Therefore, other workers probably will have to sign binding NDAs, and/or be his direct employees. BUT, his current revenues/debts probably mean he cannot currently employ more people and still make a profit. I don't know the answer to this - RED/Birger users please chime in!
I am assuming RED would not want to buy out Birger's Canon EF mount side of the company, and Birger would not want to sell!
Raising his prices of course is one way that REDusers won't want him to go, and in any case there is limited scope there before REDusers will go with renting Bartech's and motors and Nikon lenses instead of owning. Besides, existing Birger owners won't be buying more Birger kit if the situation doesn't get fixed.
4) While I'm at it, the Viewfactor Impero/Inclino/Origo woes kinda overlaps the situation. Is there mileage in physically closer working between RED and Viewfactor for similar reasons!
Just thinking out loud in the hope of some amicable and mutually beneficial resolutions...
Eric
If I lived over in the States, I'd have been getting all parties together and been willing to broker negotiations and enforcement of warranty agreements, just so that my golden investment doesn't turn to base metal, but sadly I'm too far away. :sad:
While Scarlet and Epic will bring a built in solution, anyone buying a used RED or for whatever reason not able to afford to upgrade when Scarlet and Epic arrive, will be without an approved solution for using their own affordable stills glass. There are also high-end users with bigger budgets, such as Gibby, that also want a smart light stills lens solution for RED One. And until, Scarlet and Epic ship, it's currently the lightest remote lens focus solution for the RED One for Steadicam use.
I second Stephen Pruitt's call for some sort of reconciliation.
It's sometimes hard to admit poor decisions when one has a lot riding on a product, but I think Erik needs to make the first move and admit that things developed which went beyond the terms of the agreement reached to keep RED warranty. In the end, it's the responsibility of 3rd party accessory manufacturer's to do everything reasonably possible to keep the 1st party happy.
However, understandably Jarred will be reluctant to go where he's been burned at least once if not twice! But, if not, then a surely significant proportion of RED's user base will be in a really bad place.
Even if RED came up with their own low cost smart, user installable/adjustable, Canon EF stills lens and remote control accessories for the RED One today, users who went the Birger/stills glass route will often not have the budget to buy another system, especially as that would essentially make their almost new Birger secondhand value plummet.
As we've seen with the other non-delivering/delayed/buggy 3rd party stills lens mounts and lens controls, designing and manufacturing an affordable yet professional level smart mount and controls is far from quick & easy, and even more difficult if they're tiny single man operations, despite their undoubted technical ability.
The profit margins shrinking to very slim, if not zero, here have probably been the single biggest issue leading to all the communications, debugging and delivery time problems we've seen. But also retention of intellectual property (Birger firmware, RED i/pin), control of company directions (RED didn't want to develop every possible accessory, Birger also has other pre-existing non-RED industrial clients), and oversight of modifications (the geographic separation of the two companies being a possible barrier).
So where do we go from here?
What I'd like to see in my perfect fantasy is:
1) RED (out of the bottomless goodness of their heart!) provides some free/subsidised low cost workshop and machining space at RED HQ in Vegas or California capable of manufacturing the Birger EF mount/controls for RED One, but also crucially separately able to service Birger's existing non-RED related business clients in confidence as he needs to keep that non-RED business going.
Why would RED want to do this? Birger are the only currently viable manufacturer of this specific type of accessory for the RED One, and RED does not want to manufacture it themselves, and existing RED Birger users can't afford/don't want to spend even more money.
2) Birger temporarily relocates operations to Vegas or California until they have a rock solid Birger mount solution which does everything it's currently able to do without bugs and without potential RED warranty issues. The geographical co-location allows easy consultation with RED over new designs, facilitates RED drop in visits to monitor modifications, easy face-to-face communications, elimination of the infamous "radio silences". Birger could also buy into the RED shipping and postage infrastructure, and take advantage of RED's economy of scale there.
Why would Birger want to do this, with the inevitable stresses and strains of a relocation far away from home, friends and family with a new baby, albeit temporarily? Well, if the Birger EF mount fails in the market, all his investment in work, money and emotion for two or more years is for nought, future revenue stream from this product is cut off, professional reputation fallout is high, personal pride is damaged, personal stress probably impacts health.
3) Birger one-man band gets some much needed additional man-power. This is probably the trickiest thing to overcome.
As an engineer myself, albeit at a much lower level, I can guess that his long term work in Canon EF protocol firmware and interface is probably something he wants to keep close to his chest. Giving other workers access to his workshop will involve giving up some of his privacy and open up a possibility of loss of his IP in his work. Therefore, other workers probably will have to sign binding NDAs, and/or be his direct employees. BUT, his current revenues/debts probably mean he cannot currently employ more people and still make a profit. I don't know the answer to this - RED/Birger users please chime in!
I am assuming RED would not want to buy out Birger's Canon EF mount side of the company, and Birger would not want to sell!
Raising his prices of course is one way that REDusers won't want him to go, and in any case there is limited scope there before REDusers will go with renting Bartech's and motors and Nikon lenses instead of owning. Besides, existing Birger owners won't be buying more Birger kit if the situation doesn't get fixed.
4) While I'm at it, the Viewfactor Impero/Inclino/Origo woes kinda overlaps the situation. Is there mileage in physically closer working between RED and Viewfactor for similar reasons!
Just thinking out loud in the hope of some amicable and mutually beneficial resolutions...
Eric
)
