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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

Hello Mark

Your news encouraging. Since you mention your remote, and again, since Birger's web site is so lacking, I really have no clue (recent anyhow) how the new control works.

In your opinion would you prefer if the iris control was instead a traditional ring on the lens? I can se how working in a studio the remote would not be much a hassle, but I work, 90%, in the field doing documentary work and landscapes. Can you see that being a problem? I'm using third party battery belts and have not really been impressed with their performance, but that's the because of the batteries themselves and not the camera. In your experience, how much life from a fully battery charge does the Birger mount use?

You say it will be "game changing." What do you mean by that? Do you mean how the control functions and operates the iris?
 
Joe Taylor said:
You say it will be "game changing." What do you mean by that? Do you mean how the control functions and operates the iris?
Click to expand...

I've got a Birger and have seen prototypes of the knob from View Factor. I'd probably prefer a ring aperture control given a choice but the Birger uses up/down buttons and changes the Iris is 1/4 stop increments which is fine. It's very usable but if you rack aperture during the shot a lot you may be better off with ring or pl mount lenses.

The game changing thing is that the VF knob can be mapped so a short focus throw on the lens becomes a much more usable long focus throw on the Follow Focus knob. Additionally, it provides wireless control which is very useful. This is all for a fraction of the price of other options out there.

I've been shooting the Nikon mount since May and have gotten a lot of good stuff done, but it is more sensitive than focusing PL mount lenses. Some lenses... like the 17-35mm are really tough because the focus throw is tiny.

Once View Factor starts shipping you should be able to go with Nikon lenses and use the Inclino motor to focus them. Or go with Birger and use the Canon's internal motor. Can't say which will be smoother at this point but Curt at View Factor told me the Birger mount was very high resolution and capable of very fine focusing. Using the Birger software to control the lenses wirelessly via bluetooth does show they are capable of very fine movements.

I just hope the warranty stuff and the delays all finally get worked out. I believe the products will get ironed out.
 
That sounds awesome, Joel. Thanks for your input.
 
Erik and Amy,

This is my last try to reach you and get an answer. I have called your office but your voicemail is full and nobody is answering the phone for the last two days. I've PM'd you and tried to work with you privately to resolve this.

A lot of folks here that have ordered and paid deserve an answer to what's going on.

At this point I don't know what to do since I cannot get in touch with you any other way and you won't give me a call to discuss what's going on with the shipment of my mount. So I'll just have to post my comments to you here.

So once again, please contact me before tomorrow so we can figure this out privately.

Best,
Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging
 
Joel Kaye said:
but Curt at View Factor told me the Birger mount was very high resolution and capable of very fine focusing. Using the Birger software to control the lenses wirelessly via bluetooth does show they are capable of very fine movements.
Click to expand...

I did some bench work with the original ef-232, including writing software to control the movements required for cinematography and discussing these needs and my findings with Erik. He has always been very straight with me and I for one am glad that he's not the type who would have pushed the product out before it was truly ready.

As far as the lens focusing, each lens has a range of discreet focus points. In working with a handful of these lenses they seem to range from around 600 for the midrange primes to a whopping 1600 for the flagship 85mm f/1.2L. When you first mount the lens it will have to go to minimum focus, reset it's counter, then sweep to infinity focus so the controller can learn the lenses range. After that the controller can limit the range of focus points to the required range for a shot making focusing very precise and repeatable.

One aspect that may interest a few people is that Erik publishes the serial interface protocol so the mount can be controlled by any computer program you can dream up.

As an example: dolly movements are relatively linear, but a lens focuses exponentially. I have a prototype program that compensates for this by sending exponentially derived focus points to the mount. Set the near and far points, set the rate, then just push the button and you get smooth, linear focusing for your dolly move. Press another button and reset to do it again, exactly the same every time. The computer is the size of a book, has Bluetooth, and runs off of a 9V battery: http://www.parallax.com/.

Bob
 
Erik,

I'm hoping there will be an update on Monday? I've heard some speculation about possible ship dates from various individuals. It would be nice to hear something official, and soon. Even if its a "still working on it."

Kyle
 
Thank you in advance for an update

Thank you in advance for an update

Kyle Mallory said:
Erik,

I'm hoping there will be an update on Monday? I've heard some speculation about possible ship dates from various individuals. It would be nice to hear something official, and soon. Even if its a "still working on it."

Kyle
Click to expand...

Yes, please, an update would be nice. Silence now for over 12 days.

Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging
 
Frazier:

I spoke to someone at the office on Friday and she said Erik and Amy were somewhere here in Florida for a long weekend and would be back in the office on Tuesday.

Bob Gruen said:
As an example: dolly movements are relatively linear, but a lens focuses exponentially. I have a prototype program that compensates for this by sending exponentially derived focus points to the mount. Set the near and far points, set the rate, then just push the button and you get smooth, linear focusing for your dolly move. Press another button and reset to do it again, exactly the same every time. The computer is the size of a book, has Bluetooth, and runs off of a 9V battery: http://www.parallax.com/.

Bob
Click to expand...

I have been considering making a circuit board to allow easier and more specific control in our underwater housings. I have a friend that helped me build a LANC controller board about 10 years ago and it wouldn't be that much more complicated to expand it for control of the birger, but he is in Minnesota and I have lost touch over the last couple of years, so I would be interested in talking to you and seeing what you have come up with.

Which parallax setup did you use? Did you start with a basic board and build your own computer or do they have an off-the-shelf setup? I couldn't find any already built setups in a quick search.

We used a pic chip on the old control board - how does the parallax stuff compare? Easier? Cheaper?
 
Thanks Mike

Thanks Mike

AquaVideoRed206 said:
Frazier:

I spoke to someone at the office on Friday and she said Erik and Amy were somewhere here in Florida for a long weekend and would be back in the office on Tuesday.



I have been considering making a circuit board to allow easier and more specific control in our underwater housings. I have a friend that helped me build a LANC controller board about 10 years ago and it wouldn't be that much more complicated to expand it for control of the birger, but he is in Minnesota and I have lost touch over the last couple of years, so I would be interested in talking to you and seeing what you have come up with.

Which parallax setup did you use? Did you start with a basic board and build your own computer or do they have an off-the-shelf setup? I couldn't find any already built setups in a quick search.

We used a pic chip on the old control board - how does the parallax stuff compare? Easier? Cheaper?
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike for letting me know, should have called you first.

Will call you this week and come up if you're available on Thursday.

Frazier
 
what's with Birger control knob?

what's with Birger control knob?

Is birger no longer goin to make there own control knob? - Or is the idea now, that we must order a control knob from view factor?
 
The viewfactor impero has now replaced the birger knob and is included at no additional cost for those who had originally purchased the combo. I was able to see it just before x-mas when I visited the office in Boston. I cannot say much but there are exciting goodies in the works. I wouldn't hold your breath on getting it tomorrow, delays, as we all know by now, are an inherent part of new product development, but I was again very impressed by the overall quality and it is an increasingly viable solution for a comprehensive "intelligent" mount.
 
Erik or Amy, please give us an update ASAP.

I'm one of the lucky ones who have actually received the Birger mount, but there are enough issues that I'm thinking about taking it off the camera.
  • Because I can't collimate close enough, none of my lenses wider than about 30mm will focus to infinity (which on a wide angle lens is pretty close). Erik has said they're shaving some thickness off the new mounts to account for this.
  • No word on when ViewFactor knobs will ship.
  • Other electronic controls (via the mount buttons & Mac program) have been hit or miss; sometimes a certain lens will respond, sometimes it won't. I think Erik said this will be addressed with the revised hardware.
It's great to be able to use my Canon glass, but since I'm not getting any use of the electronic capabilities, the WickedCircuits dumb mount would be more useful to me. (Not being able to use wide angle lenses is seriously a bummer.) Please let us know what's going on!
 
Waiting for Birger Mount

Waiting for Birger Mount

Mark Crabtree said:
I have two Birger mounts on two Red One's. They both work spectacularly. I had a full day studio shoot today taking both stills with my 40D and video with the Red One all using the same Canon lenses. Birger is at the final phase of product developement with integration of Curt's remote. I just want everyone to know that, even without the remote, the mount is awsome. With the remote it will be game changing.
Click to expand...


Would love to have one!!!

Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging
 
Joe Vinson said:
Erik or Amy, please give us an update ASAP.
It's great to be able to use my Canon glass, but since I'm not getting any use of the electronic capabilities, the WickedCircuits dumb mount would be more useful to me. (Not being able to use wide angle lenses is seriously a bummer.) Please let us know what's going on!
Click to expand...

Try removing your collimation ring altogether. That got me down to about 24mm at infinity. I can use wider lenses by focusing closer. My 11mm focuses to about 10 feet. Yeah, that's out of whack, but it's gotten me some shots. Just doesn't work for scenery yet. The 17-55 has so much focus beyond infinity that I can just about get it focused on infinity. It's easily usable up to 30 feet which covers a lot of shooting. The mount could be ground down to fix the collimation. That may be what I'll need to do if the issue isn't addressed. Erik did mention that he'd replace our mounts first.

VF Knobs will probably be late February as Curt has indicated on his website that's when those will shipping in large volumes.

I don't understand your other issues. Some lenses you have to press the top and bottom buttons at the same time to get the lens to start listening. Also, the 85mm 1.8 will trigger the record button when it's mounted. The workaround for that is disable the GPIO on the port your power is plugged into. I haven't had any problems controlling the aperture of any lens so far so the Birger is very usable.

Looking forward to Erik's update.
 
Thanks Joel, I took your advice and removed the collimation ring. It already seems better with a wide-ish Nikon lens (+ Canon adapter) I had handy. I'll try out a few more Canon wide lenses later today.

Not sure the cause of my electronics problem; am aware that some lenses need to be 'primed' by pressing the top and bottom mount buttons, but that's not it. Sometimes I can just remove the lens and reattach, and it will work fine. Maybe the data pins aren't making good connections sometimes? Dunno.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
Which parallax setup did you use? Did you start with a basic board and build your own computer or do they have an off-the-shelf setup? I couldn't find any already built setups in a quick search.

We used a pic chip on the old control board - how does the parallax stuff compare? Easier? Cheaper?
Click to expand...

I used the Basic Stamp SX chip, the bluetooth control board, a $30 encoder from US Digital, a 4 row display and misc RCs to make it all work. Electronic parts were probably less than $200.

PBASIC is a pretty easy language to code in once you get started. My software is for the original ef-232 as I am still waiting on the new Birger mount like everyone else.

Lately I've been wondering if the Birger mount will run the Canon version of the Tokina 11-16 that everyone is raving about. Has anyone tried it on the Birger yet?

Bob
 
Bob Gruen said:
Lately I've been wondering if the Birger mount will run the Canon version of the Tokina 11-16 that everyone is raving about. Has anyone tried it on the Birger yet?

Bob
Click to expand...

Yes, the Tokina 11-16 works fine on the Birger mount.

Brian Timmons
britim media
 
Ocean Imaging said:
Ok, just got off the phone with Erik, he is working on resolving the warranty situation.

He told me that he would post an update on the Birger Thread as soon as possible.

Best to all,
Frazier
Click to expand...
From my experience, installing the Birger mount following instructions is not a big issue.
But re-installing the original RED PL mount is something scary for me
because pinching the wire (the i/pin) seems very easy, if someone knows a safe procedure to avoid this, I would be very happy !!!
 
I sent Jarred the warranty agreement for his review. It is simple and to the point, only one page long. I am confident that we will get this done quickly.

We have 190 sets of parts that have passed incoming inspection. The non-field upgradeable portion of the Impero software is done, and Curt is going to start getting a boatload of those built for us very shortly.

My next post will be when this is a done deal.
 
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