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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

Maybe Jim should stipulate that all third party vendors for RED accessories should adopt this open plan model approach for business. It works well and keeps clients happy (spending). I find it quite disgusting that even after taking peoples money Erik maintains his veil of silence and zero customer liaison. People have spent thousands on lenses that may end up to be superfluous to their needs due to his lack of communication. That, in anyone's book, is just very bad for business.

If you want to adopt a reservation and prepaid role then be as open and communicative as the model you are following, simple.

My 2c
 
Just in from RED and Lighten up on Birger!

Just in from RED and Lighten up on Birger!

I just received this email from RED entitled: Your New RED ONE

One of the points was:

"Your RED ONE did not come with i/pins in the PL Mount. We are still developing the final i/pin daughter card for the mount. Once this is final, you will be sent the daughter card with simple installation instructions. This daughter card would coincide with the i/pin data stream being enabled through firmware."

The i/pin data stream - and the firmware for it - is fairly important for your Birger mount.

I hate to be the designated Birger defender but people on this forum need to sit back and think about what's going on. How the above information/situation would create serious difficulty and frustration for Birger in finalizing their product - and how the uncertainty, and the possibility that RED may not have been as completely open on some of these things as people here suggest, may make it better for Erik just to say nothing until things are really finalized.

I talk to Erik fairly regularly - WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT - because his product is a huge deal for us bubble blowers (and I would suggest also for everyone else but the established feature shooters) - and leave him alone so he can work the rest of the time. I only know him from the phone and emails, but I can tell you I believe the guy is on top of it and any delays and non-communication here are for good reasons. Any more than that you should probably just read between the lines - and again lighten up - when RED makes it possible for them to finalize it, things will happen very quickly.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
I just received this email from RED entitled: Your New RED ONE

One of the points was:

"Your RED ONE did not come with i/pins in the PL Mount. We are still developing the final i/pin daughter card for the mount. Once this is final, you will be sent the daughter card with simple installation instructions. This daughter card would coincide with the i/pin data stream being enabled through firmware."

The i/pin data stream - and the firmware for it - is fairly important for your Birger mount.

I hate to be the designated Birger defender but people on this forum need to sit back and think about what's going on. How the above information/situation would create serious difficulty and frustration for Birger in finalizing their product - and how the uncertainty, and the possibility that RED may not have been as completely open on some of these things as people here suggest, may make it better for Erik just to say nothing until things are really finalized.

I talk to Erik fairly regularly - WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT - because his product is a huge deal for us bubble blowers (and I would suggest also for everyone else but the established feature shooters) - and leave him alone so he can work the rest of the time. I only know him from the phone and emails, but I can tell you I believe the guy is on top of it and any delays and non-communication here are for good reasons. Any more than that you should probably just read between the lines - and again lighten up - when RED makes it possible for them to finalize it, things will happen very quickly.
Click to expand...


Agreed. While we are all anxious to get our new toys - to ask the Birger folks to have a locked down version before the RED is even finished is very difficult. I would rather have something that works FOR SURE than a rushed item that needs modification because RED is still improving their product. I have confidence the wait will be worth it.

However, a posting assuring me of that would also be nice.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
I just received this email from RED entitled: Your New RED ONE

One of the points was:

"Your RED ONE did not come with i/pins in the PL Mount. We are still developing the final i/pin daughter card for the mount. Once this is final, you will be sent the daughter card with simple installation instructions. This daughter card would coincide with the i/pin data stream being enabled through firmware."

The i/pin data stream - and the firmware for it - is fairly important for your Birger mount.

I hate to be the designated Birger defender but people on this forum need to sit back and think about what's going on. How the above information/situation would create serious difficulty and frustration for Birger in finalizing their product - and how the uncertainty, and the possibility that RED may not have been as completely open on some of these things as people here suggest, may make it better for Erik just to say nothing until things are really finalized.

I talk to Erik fairly regularly - WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT - because his product is a huge deal for us bubble blowers (and I would suggest also for everyone else but the established feature shooters) - and leave him alone so he can work the rest of the time. I only know him from the phone and emails, but I can tell you I believe the guy is on top of it and any delays and non-communication here are for good reasons. Any more than that you should probably just read between the lines - and again lighten up - when RED makes it possible for them to finalize it, things will happen very quickly.
Click to expand...

Good post, aquavideo, although, to be fair to the other side, the delays at RED and other technical obstacles to completing the mount have NOTHING to do with the simple act of processing an order or acknowledging that you have received one. I faxed my order in the Sunday after Thanksgiving, never received a confirmation, and my credit card has not been charged. I would just like to know for sure whether they GOT it and are aware that I want their product regardless of when it becomes available.:) Many who ordered after me have reported getting either a confirmation or seeing their CC charged, some others have not. So I'm kind of left hanging and unsure whether it's an oversight or whether the fax -- which was shown as successfully sent on my computer the afternoon I dispatched it -- somehow got lost on their end.

I'm being patient because Erik indicated that he was going to take a Christmas break and would be doing no work during that time, but I will really be worried if another 2 weeks passes and I receive no word about my order.
 
communication ...

communication ...

AquaVideoRed206 said:
I just received this email from RED entitled: Your New RED ONE

One of the points was:

"Your RED ONE did not come with i/pins in the PL Mount. We are still developing the final i/pin daughter card for the mount. Once this is final, you will be sent the daughter card with simple installation instructions. This daughter card would coincide with the i/pin data stream being enabled through firmware."

The i/pin data stream - and the firmware for it - is fairly important for your Birger mount.
Click to expand...

Mike (AquaVideo), Gibby, etc ... I hear you .... the only thing I can say is :

>>> COMMUNICATION <<<

In the early days, there was a healthy pro-active exchange of information in the community between Birger and the (future) RED users. Once Birger got down to work, this appears to have tailed off.

An update is all I (we ?) need ... I can take good news (clearly) but also bad news (so that I can PLAN, for housing, etc ...). It's the lack of information which leaves some of us with having to make some decisions, which may not be necessary.

Cheers,
 
Communication

Communication

h2opixels said:
Mike (AquaVideo), Gibby, etc ... I hear you .... the only thing I can say is :

>>> COMMUNICATION <<<

In the early days, there was a healthy pro-active exchange of information in the community between Birger and the (future) RED users. Once Birger got down to work, this appears to have tailed off.

An update is all I (we ?) need ... I can take good news (clearly) but also bad news (so that I can PLAN, for housing, etc ...). It's the lack of information which leaves some of us with having to make some decisions, which may not be necessary.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

I think the key here is there is no good update until RED finalizes. RED has changed/delayed too many times to give best guess updates. Eventually you get to a point in a situation like this where you know it's close (RED's finality that is) and it's better just to wait until it's real and then comment/update.
 
Gibby said:
My post #26 on the Best Zooms for RED thread on this forum also sheds some light on the concerns voiced on this thread.

Link: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7186&page=3
Click to expand...

I read post 26 and it basically just makes me more nervous. Everything Birger said to you didn't happen. And you, to my knowledge, haven't posted footage or a review. I easily could have missed that though as I have been very sporadically visiting here.

Look, when the guy says units will be shipping December 15th and then doesn't communicate when he realizes that's not going to happen then there's no good reason for the lack of communication. Who would run their company that way? Come on AquaVideo... delays are defendable. Not keeping everyone up to date by taking 10 minutes out 1 time a week to post news is hard to defend.

Also - doesn't the PL mount pin reside on the PL mount? That whole unit is coming off and the Birger replaces it as far as I know. The body IS finalized and is shipping. Which of course, begs the giant question... how do you calibrate a Birger mount considering how tough it has been for RED to get their PL mount right.

That said I'm still praying this guy is a technical wizard with lesser business acumen (like many) because I'd rather have a great piece of gear than a smooth sales pitch. In the end, the hardware will stand on it's own. If it can pull a slow, smooth focus and be calibrated he'll sell a lot.

Also - have Canon EFS lenses been test to work on the Birger?
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022113canonefs1755f28g.asp

Looks like a killer little lens. I tested one and saw breathing, but not a lot.
 
Just a couple of pictures to let people know what we have been up to. The first is a rig (that is presently sitting on my conference room table) that is going back to one of our Beta testers today. It is a pre-beta lens mount, which also happens to be a production lens mount that has been adapted to the camera, rather than one custom designed for it.

The second is a picture of a pre-production board in the pick and place machine. The board takes about 90 seconds to populate. (The truly observant will note that I placed the board back in the machine, after it had been through the oven.)

We have had pre-beta units on Boris (or was it Natasha), city named cameras, early numbered cameras, upgraded city named cameras, and in a few days (when aquavideo's camera gets here) on real production 100+ serial number cameras. Every single time something has been different, that has materially affected the design of our product. The mantra "everything is subject to change" frankly sucks from the perspective of a third party developer...

Out of respect to Jim, Stuart and all of the others at RED that are doing such great work, I had chosen not to say this until today. But this is really getting absurd. I made deposits refundable to avoid this kind of negative energy. I haven't even charged the credit cards yet of 2/3 of the reservation holders, because we didn't need to be sitting on money prior to freezing the last details of the product. We only took deposits by credit card so everyone would have that added layer of protection. I have kept the "free remote" offer open. I am starting to understand why RED's standard answer to a complaint is "your deposit is fully refundable".

We can't finalize the design and tooling until I get aqua's camera. Aqua will get his camera back with a pre-beta unit. Which will make three units in circulation. The other two are with the DP of a popular national TV program and a production company that shoots mostly commercials. Both have agreed to post, and or allow me to post, some frames next week.

Beta units will be available one to two weeks after that date, and production will start up another week after that. I will post next when I have something new to communicate.
 
Thanks for the update, Erik. Just in time, when there's something really new to communicate.
grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
birgerEngineer said:
Every single time something has been different, that has materially affected the design of our product. The mantra "everything is subject to change" frankly sucks from the perspective of a third party developer... .
Click to expand...

I admire your patience, take your time and
just make it perfect, happy New Year !
 
Erik,

Thank you very much for the update. I have no problem waiting. I just want to know what I'm waiting for. I'll have a better idea of that when footage gets posted of some smooth, slow focus pulls that the Birger mount is controlling.

-Thor
 
birgerEngineer said:
We can't finalize the design and tooling until I get aqua's camera. Aqua will get his camera back with a pre-beta unit. Which will make three units in circulation. The other two are with the DP of a popular national TV program and a production company that shoots mostly commercials. Both have agreed to post, and or allow me to post, some frames next week.

Beta units will be available one to two weeks after that date, and production will start up another week after that. I will post next when I have something new to communicate.
Click to expand...

That's what we need to know. Thanks for the info... so that sounds like February for production Canon mounts.

I'd be willing to send you my camera for beta if you need it too. I should finalize my order Monday. Not sure how quickly after that it'll ship.

I still think you should consider popping in once a week to say what's new even if it's 'nothing is new'. Then you'd avoid "negative energy".
 
Eric, good to hear something, even if it is that there have been a series of SNAFUs. I should be getting my Red this month but it is looking like I'll have to wait a few weeks to shoot anything. Buying a PL lens for just a couple weeks doesn't seem like a reasonable way to go, but the thought of my Red sitting there... not taking pictures... I'm starting to shake.

And that couple weeks delay is contingent on Birger actually having received the order form that I emailed back on November 29th... there was no confirmation or charge to my credit card so I'm hoping that it made it to you and didn't get spam filtered or anything like that.
 
Well, this is clearly good news. . . I'm pumped!

Stephen
 
thank you ...

thank you ...

Erik ... thanks for the update.

Cheers
 
Erik, should people who reserved have gotten confirmation by now? We reserved by fax on Dec. 6. (Name on the order is my business partner's, "Pierce Varous".)
 
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