ARRI 4K Super 35 Camera Will be Launched Next Month

[Jon Pais]

In many of the online forums, commenters are saying that ARRI is conservative and that the new camera will probably be able to capture over 20 stops of dynamic range, which is utter nonsense written by those with little to no understanding that a sensor is part of a system and not the sole determinant of dynamic range. Manufacturers can make claims of as much as 120 dB dynamic range, however the most ever recorded to the best of my knowledge was around 100 dB. The reason for this, according to Imatest, is veiling flare, which they regard as the worst enemy of dynamic range and which even the best lens coatings cannot entirely eliminate. Before reaching the sensor, light must first pass through the lens elements, and that light is scattered and bounces around, hurting dynamic range. Furthermore, the tests I’ve seen of ARRI sensors are pretty much in line with what the company has claimed their cameras are capable of all along, so the very idea that they are underrating the performance of their sensors by several stops is childish nonsense. Finally, when some actually see a test video shot with a lens with excellent contrast and blacks that aren’t a milky grey, they end up preferring vintage glass!

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Zacuto did a comparison of Kodak film to Digital Cameras way back in 2011.

Screenshot FWIW:

All of the current digital cinema cameras btw are exceeding the DR of motion picture film negative by a margin while being more sensitive as well. Film has unique characteristics that don't exactly make this and apple to apples sort of thing as clipping and overexposure as well as underexposure work differently, but that's the gist really.

Interesting how film handles light sources (even at night) much better than any digital camera that you can buy today. But, the Alexa 35 could change that. I always say that film is the medium you want to shoot night exteriors with.

"The new Arri camera isn't 8K, it's going to be a failure!".

Everyone likes the camera's specs. It's just not a panacea, anymore than V-Raptor is a panacea. 4.6K is certainly the minimum standard, but it's a very good minimum standard. Let's not be childish please.

Seriously... Or how ALEVIII *still* has more (usable) DR than every other sensor, including competing ones that are ~10 years newer.

Not true from what I have seen. That sensor is way out-dated. It's not a bad sensor, and in fact it's a very good one. It's just not as amazeballs as some say it is.

Furthermore, the tests I’ve seen of ARRI sensors are pretty much in line with what the company has claimed their cameras are capable of all along, so the very idea that they are underrating the performance of their sensors by several stops is childish nonsense. Finally, when some actually see a test video shot with a lens with excellent contrast and blacks that aren’t a milky grey, they end up preferring vintage glass!

I'm not an engineer but that sounds like the sobering kind of talk we need when we're discussing these things.

 

[Mark K.]

In many of the online forums, commenters are saying that ARRI is conservative and that the new camera will probably be able to capture over 20 stops of dynamic range, which is utter nonsense written by those with little to no understanding that a sensor is part of a system and not the sole determinant of dynamic range.

I think that's a question of perspective. Red have been claiming "16+ stops" of DR with their sensors for years (and are now up to "17+ stops") and yet a simple comparison test will show that both these "16" and "17" stop sensors, are soundly trumped by the "14" stops in the now 12-year old AlevIII sensor.

Assuming Arri's claim of "17" stops for this new sensor, is as accurate as their claim of "14" for the old one, then it's certainly conceivable that someone could measure it with the same methodology used to get "16" or "17" stops from Red sensors, and see something approaching 20 stops with the Arri.

It may be daft, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[Jon Pais]

I think that's a question of perspective. Red have been claiming "16+ stops" of DR with their sensors for years (and are now up to "17+ stops") and yet a simple comparison test will show that both these "16" and "17" stop sensors, are soundly trumped by the "14" stops in the now 12-year old AlevIII sensor.

Assuming Arri's claim of "17" stops for this new sensor, is as accurate as their claim of "14" for the old one, then it's certainly conceivable that someone could measure it with the same methodology used to get "16" or "17" stops from Red sensors, and see something approaching 20 stops with the Arri.

It may be daft, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Precisely, and that is exactly what is happening, at least according to Art Adams, ARRI Cinema Lens Specialist, who shared his thoughts about manufacturers' claims in a chat with Yossy Mendelovich on the Reddit Cinematography forum back in 2019:

"I had an educating chat on Reddit Cinematography forum, with Art Adams, which works at ARRI’s as a Cinema Lens Specialist, regarding the “low” values of DR in ARRI modern cameras. We are all well familiar with ARRI’s beautiful imagery and precise skin tones, however, according to ARRI, the DR of its camera are much lower than RED for instance (14 stops vs. 17 stops). According to Art, most camera manufacturers use the DSC Labs’ charts to test DR because it makes their dynamic range numbers look better. However, Art emphasizes that ARRI’s methodologies are a bit different. “I used to do a lot of consulting with DSC Labs, who make camera test charts, so I own a 20-stop dynamic range chart (DSC Labs Xyla)” Art says. “This is what most manufacturers use to test dynamic range (although not ARRI, because our engineers don’t feel it’s precise enough) and I see what companies claim as usable stops. You can see that they are just barely above the noise floor”.

 

[Phil Holland]

Jon Pais - That's fascinating. For those attending on the 31st you will 100% be seeing a Xyla reading. I also test two additional ways beyond the Xyla which are VERY accurate to ensure there's no flare or optical contamination. Or any issues with the charts calibration for that matter.

SNR is always somewhat fun when it comes to digital cinema cameras. Some will publish their Imatest results, proper or not, but every manufacturer doesn't exactly work towards that when it comes to motion picture cameras.

There's additional testing that's always worth doing to investigate other topics like color stability across ISO Range and such as well.

 

[James Darren]

Let's not be childish please.

It's not being childish, it's correcting the spread of misinformation on this forum which happens sometimes from people who contribute regularly on here. You yourself have said some pretty ridiculous things on here and you're probably not experienced enough to say some of these things.

 

[Phil Holland]

Matt W. I'll be able to answer your questions about all of "that" after embargo lifts. 90% sure I'm doing a full writeup on the new camera based on the numerous questions I'm getting asked.

 

[rand thompson]

Matt W. I'll be able to answer your questions about all of "that" after embargo lifts. 90% sure I'm doing a full writeup on the new camera based on the numerous questions I'm getting asked.

Looking forward to that Phil!

 

[Alex Stolpakov]

Arri is a very conservative company and I think they didn't want to take away anything. The Alexa is an extremely noisy camera and some DPs like the noise that it has.

I wonder if the "textures" are just noise added to the image or if they're noise added to the signal before de-bayering. Regardless, it seems like a dumb feature to me but it also feels in keeping with Arri's conservative "take nothing away" approach. I'm honestly kind of surprised there's no 3.2k mode for workflow continuity.

I feel like this is a stupid feature, yet of all the sample images the one with "texture" added looks best to me. But this is something that should be so easy to do in post, while it would also make post much more difficult working with such a noisy source. For composites Alexa footage requires a lot of Neat Video. I find Red footage can too but mostly because DPs I know like to use the Dragon (noisiest Red sensor) and underexpose to bring up the noise. Dragon also has a great texture though.

No it's made for DP's to safeguard their intent, if they are eager to have some grain. Production can f.ck you over if you are shooting too safe (the right way). Not always DP's have the last word in post production. And if you are shooting plates, it can be easily turned off.
It's like shooting thin negative : The Godfather is the best example. It's just DP friendly.

 

[Remington Chase]

I'm surprised they kept the same form factor that the prototypes have had for at least the last two years. We shot something for Apple a while go with it and were blown away with the image quality. Was just hoping for something a little smaller and less prototypie. Already ordered 6 of them.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I'm surprised they kept the same form factor that the prototypes have had for at least the last two years. We shot something for Apple a while go with it and were blown away with the image quality. Was just hoping for something a little smaller and less prototypie. Already ordered 6 of them.

Did you order the Sonosax sound module with it? Just out of curiosity.

 

[rand thompson]

The New ALEV 4 Sensor Might Become ARRI’s Greatest Technological Achievement


by YOSSY MENDELOVICH

Article
https://ymcinema.com/2022/05/30/the...ome-arris-greatest-technological-achievement/

 

[rand thompson]

ARRI WEBSITE UPDATE AND UPCOMING KEYNOTE PRESENTATION

ALEXA 35 - 4.6K Super 35 digital camera | ARRI

 

[rand thompson]

ALEXA 35 Guided Tour


BY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “An Ancestral Path”

BY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “Nice”

BY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “Found It”

BY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “The Swing”


BY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “Treasure Hunter”


BY
ARRIChannel

 

[rand thompson]

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “The Painting” - YouTube

bY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “The Siren”

bY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “Tigerine”

bY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “Avoid Boredom”

bY
ARRIChannel

ALEXA 35 Encounters – “Sweetheart”

bY
ARRIChannel

 

[rand thompson]

ARRI Tech Talk: ALEXA 35 - Image Quality


by
ARRIChannel

ARRI Tech Talk: ALEXA 35 - Creative Options

by
ARRIChannel

ARRI Tech Talk: ALEXA 35 - Fast and Easy Operation

by
ARRIChannel

ARRI Tech Talk: ALEXA 35 - Recording Formats

by
ARRIChannel

ARRI Tech Talk: ALEXA 35 - Electronic Accessories


by
ARRIChannel

ARRI Tech Talk: ALEXA 35 - Mechanical Support


by
ARRIChannel

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I watched the keynote and then some of the videos they put up, not all of the shorts but a few of them. There is some seriously exciting stuff happing with this camera.

 

[rand thompson]

I watched the keynote and then some of the videos they put up, not all of the shorts but a few of them. There is some seriously exciting stuff happing with this camera.

Yeah! I mean..Yeah! There are a lot of great and interesting things going on. I'm looking through all the videos again myself.

 

[Phil Holland]

So now that embargo has lifted I can publish my initial impressions and a semi-deep dive a bit later into the tech under the hood. Maybe after this evening's event, but maybe before.

For now, I have updated my tools at https://www.phfxtools.com with the new Alexa 35 and for those interested the Fujifilm X-H2S which also announced this morning.

 

[rand thompson]

So now that embargo has lifted I can publish my initial impressions and a semi-deep dive a bit later into the tech under the hood. Maybe after this evening's event, but maybe before.

For now, I have updated my tools at https://www.phfxtools.com with the new Alexa 35 and for those interested the Fujifilm X-H2S which also announced this morning.

Thanks a lot Phil!!