alexa mini VS red weapon the hope is over

[Demetri Zuev]

Mini is cool and hot on rental markets right now. But I wouldn't buy it today for one simple reason - that sensor is at its' last days, a new one is going to be out in a year or so, so it's wiser to wait.

And knowing ARRI, there won't be any generous sensor upgrade programs.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I expect to see some images to back up the claims put forward here in the next post by the OP...

 

[Michael J Brennan]

There seems to be one major thing missing here regarding internal ND filtration and that's discussing the negatives and how it can impact image quality.

Phil, what are the negatives of camera integrated fiter wheels?

mike brennan

 

[Christoffer Glans]

​​i was hoping that people at red were listening to their customer
The mini alexa is a marvel of technology at a unbeatable price i was really hopping to see that red will incorporate a true ND glass and a wireless follow focus module in the weapon
Those 2 futures became very important for drone and steadicam operator or gorilla style shooter
Like many people in this forum i have been very disappointed and have no choice than buying a mini alexa
Sometimes dreams never come true

Yeah, an overpriced piece of gear which is marketed as a 4K camera when it's rather a 3.4K camera with a debayer sensor upscale to even the lowest of the HR standards. A camera which needs additional equipment in order to record RAW based on a five-year old sensor tech. Either you are a troll or you are so under-informed on technology that you don't even see how wrong you are. Yeah, the Weapon is an expensive beast, but now with Raven you get a Raw and ProRes camera, capable of TRUE 4K at 3:1 compressed R3D, recorded to on-board media. It even comes as a dedicated drone/gimbal system for less than 10k, all inclusive except the drone/gimbal. I know one company that won't accept your camera, Netflix, because it isn't a true 4K camera.

So, go ahead with your Alexa Mini, while Red is listening and giving exactly what people needed for gimbals, you can continue to complain about them not doing it... weird.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I'm with Gunleik on this one, need to show examples to back up these claims. It's not to infer you are wrong as I know many people who feel the way you do, it's more about being constructive in your posting. This is why I believe camera A is better than Camera B in this scenario > Link to RAW clips. Then peopke can make up their own mind about what is being expressed.

 

[Mark Toia]

​​i was hoping that people at red were listening to their customer
The mini alexa is a marvel of technology at a unbeatable price i was really hopping to see that red will incorporate a true ND glass and a wireless follow focus module in the weapon
Those 2 futures became very important for drone and steadicam operator or gorilla style shooter
Like many people in this forum i have been very disappointed and have no choice than buying a mini alexa
Sometimes dreams never come true

uuuum....

You've lost me ?

It what area does the mini win?

Price? no... Resolution no... dynamic range, debatable... Modules, no... I could rattle on for another page of extras.

Knowing that you can buy a 4k BLACK MAGIC camera that has more tech in it for under $4000, it really makes me think how long ARRI can keep bluffing you all.
I'd hate to play ARRI at Poker, they'd fleece me .

Anyways.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Alexa mini will never be a viable A-CAM period.. it is a tool to complement the Alexa as a gimbal/drone/tight spot solution from the mouths of the people at ARRI at NAB 2015. The Weapon is a camera that can go and go and go, it can also be broken down to work in the ways Alexa Mini does. I do not understand this comparison.. You can own a MG Weapon AND a Raven for the price of an Alexa Mini..@@

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I think that this recurring discussion needs a bit of breathingroom. It will happen again and again, but the problem is that it is fully undocumented.
If you like the mini and not the weapon: Fine. Shoot mini. At least I have no issues with that at all.

If the thing is about functionality: Let's discuss that. The Weapon does indeed NOT have built in motor-control and NDs. It is however fully remote controllable and you can add a motionmount. Apples and oranges? Sure, but approaches at the same issue, and discussable. ADD WMD or OMOD to Weapon and that1s a DRAW. Use optitron2 and EF mounts on either, and u have remote control of EF lenses without any extra hardware. Cool.

If you want to discuss the technical quality of the image?
That is indeed welcome, but those discussions should be followed with original files from both cameras to give any meaning at all.

If we're talking "filmic feel", there is quite a few things that come into play, and it is partly 100% subjective.
Not that that discussion isn't welcome, but without image-examples and discussing how things were lit, shot and processed, it is also close to impossible to discuss these things in any really meaningful way. Outside

"I like this"
"I like that"

Yes
No
Yes
No

etc etc etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, what are the negatives of camera integrated fiter wheels?

I have no interest in bashing anybody's camera, but the two biggest things to look out for are:

- Image softening effects on some lenses and some focal lengths, some common to aerial/drone filming. Might not be a big deal for some however.
- IR contamination still occurs, they used straight NDs as far as I can tell and it's the same AlevIII sensor. Don't see much of it at 0.6, but at 1.2 and 2.1 it is still visible

Internal NDs are a "good thing" for sure when it comes to convenience. However, I am freaked out by the audience who says "it's a deal breaker", because it really shouldn't be. Front of the lens filtration is "overall" a better solution in reality when it comes to image quality.

I'd love for RED to include them, but so many don't talk about the pros and cons, and there are both of those in this case. Right down to potential mechanism failure.

 

[Gene Sung]

To the OP, how are you getting audio on the Alexa Mini? I was told by Arri that the Lemo port has no Phantom power, so the choices were either a battery powered wireless receiver, battery mic or rig a 3rd party preamp to power a mic.

For gimbal shots where sound is needed, a simple internal scratch mic seems like a simple solution as opposed to the above solutions all of which require rigging. I wonder why Arri didn't include one?

 

[Matthew Quinn]

tools like Bright tangerine Misfit Atom make putting filters on the front of the Lens makes things lighter than ever, simply amazing cant say enough about the Atom. it also clamps to the lens making Pola adjustment very easy. whats the problem again?

 

[Milan Spasic]

​​
gorilla style shooter

Don't mean to highjack the thread but this has been my pet peeve for the longest time.
Please note the difference.

Gorilla:

Guerilla:

PS I like Alexa Mini and will probably purchase once the new sensor is out.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I can do without the integrated follow focus but I, like many others, hoped there would be built in NDs and a global shutter.

it has integrated ff and iris control trough ef glas and fool control. To me thats so much more than whats offered with the mini alexa.
Not to mention that you can change any setting in mid air from framerate to monitor color curves.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

it has integrated ff and iris control trough ef glas and fool control. To me thats so much more than whats offered with the mini alexa.

You can't say that !

We need at least the Red THC to be Foolcontrol compatible natively, (RTMotion, Cmotion, Bartech with "box adapter").
An iPhone is usefull of course, but it doesn't replace a wireless hand controller.
Especially with the annoucement of the WCU with integrated Transvideo Starlite HD on the device. Red needs an alternative.

 

[David Peterson]

gorilla style shooter

Very curious to know what you mean by that! lol

 

[Björn Benckert]

You can't say that !

We need at least the Red THC to be Foolcontrol compatible natively, (RTMotion, Cmotion, Bartech with "box adapter").
An iPhone is usefull of course, but it doesn't replace a wireless hand controller.
Especially with the annoucement of the WCU with integrated Transvideo Starlite HD on the device. Red needs an alternative.

Raven and weapon will work with fool control right out of the box. The control needed for doing done work is not really precise macro focus pulls, so for that asignment I very much think EF glass and fool control is porbably the best camera controler out there, what other option can do that much to a flying camera?

Also for weapon you can also control the motion mount.

Having motion mount control, EF lens control for iris and focus, and total control over all camera menues on an Ipad... Well focus knob is possibly not the best, but again what was descussed here was for drone use, and for such the markings for the EF glass, the low weight weight of it and everything else make it a very viable option for sure. To me much more so than an alexa mini... then add HDRX on top of everything and you need to be a real arri fanboy to pic the mini before a weapon for such use.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

thc or optitron. i bet mikael is working on something, too
cmotion integrates with omod

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

We need at least the Red THC to be Foolcontrol compatible natively,

What I meant was Weapon/Raven Wifi compatible. No use of a receiver ala Alexa Mini WCU-4. *
Right now, THC need the receiver. RTMotion needs their extra box on both camera and iPhone.

Optitron is the only solution, and it still looks beta visually.
DroKnob V3 is fine for operator/owner but for professionnal use, it still looks odd.

Controlling electonic Iris/Focus, Start/Stop, and why not menu/jog/enter CustomFunction1/CustomFunction2 with a THC V2.0 using the internal DSMC² Wifi would be awesome. That is something Arri understood and I seriously thought Red too, considering the many posts from Jarred about electronic lenses and the original design of the Redmote Pro.

I find weird that Red invented Redmote Pro years ago, and the one who actually build it is their main "opponent". Especially when Red is 3 years ahead of every other competitor.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I'd say Foolcontrol = Redmote Pro...
It's a pity that nothing but the redmote can hook up to that wireless network which is already in the Epics.
I kinda tend to forget it's there.

RED had a team working on remote controls (for those remembering Teds demos) back in the day, but that program never happened.


Optitron2 "beta visually". What do you mean? (Not defensive, as I have little to defend, but just curious).
It works very well. I was super sceptical before getting it to test, but not so much after trying it out for a while.

 

[Lorenzo Lalik]

Thank you for you very intelligent and pragmatic answer
I feel that we are the only one here who understand that or ever use this system on this site
with red you need to ad different module and at the end it's never going to be at the same level
the arri remote fully control the camera and the focus ,iris ect ... work flawlessly without adding anything
simply PRICELESS