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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ADOBE SAYS "NO !" TO THE PEOPLE

My only complaint,...well, my only major compaint is the monthly subscription is the only option on the cloud. If they had a yearly subscription, I would prefer that. I would rather pay once and not have to worry about it.

Other than that, it's cheaper going the clound route if you like to stay current on your software. It was cheaper this year than a normal upgrade and I was a able to pick up a second license for $30/month. That is a huge saving. Since CS5.5, Adobe has been doing yearly releases, so the 18month cycle doesn't apply anymore, thank God. I want to be updated as often as possible.
 
Mike Garrick said:
The problem with the Adobe system is not the subscription system...but its ability to access files you create today at sometime in the future.

To illustrate some great production/Post production platforms of the past, Ampex, Oxberry, Marron Corel, CMX, ACE, ADO, DVE, Paintbox, Henry & Harriet , Paintbox, Shake, FCP 7 to name a few. Does everyone really believe Adobe cannot join this list of names from the past.

Adobe is also a listed company, do you think Adobe is immune from buyouts or hostile takeovers? Do you really trust your creative assets to Wall street ?

This forum to often talks about "future proofing' ...so how does the new Adobe proposed model address "future proofing" one of Reds key perceived benefits ?

Myself, I've been in this industry for a while ; ) I've seen too many names come & go. To have such faith in any company must be really nice ...wish I could do it.

Hence imo it is the future that drives this debate not a subscription fee.
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Fair call Mike. I guess I have faith that if Adobe were to one day shut their doors, they would give us the curtesy of providing an archive platform to open old projects with. Don't really have anything to base that off but I'm not overly concerned that Adobe is about to shut there doors anytime soon. Perhaps I'll be eating my words one day, but I guess that's the risk I'm willing to take on this one :)

Good point though. Out of interest, would Adobe offering an exit program should they close their doors one day alleviate your concerns?
 
I think Adobe handled this all wrong....the correct way would have been to run CC alongside the purchase route. CC subscribers would get automatic upgrades as and when available whereas purchasers would continue to wait until the next official release - 12 to 10 months.

I think over time, people would see the benefits of CC but this do or die attitude has really alienated users and has created a lot of negative publicity for Adobe.

Scott
 
Brice Ansel said:
Why should I rent a software?
Just one question Brad;
do you rent your Scarlet?
Cheers
B.
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I guess you would rent software for the same reason you would rent anything else. It's a tool which gets the job done, makes you money and gives you the flexibility to upscale or downscale quickly depending on current needs. It also means you can avoid the never ending upgrade cycle by being updated with the latest version all the time.

I rent my scarlet out on jobs with myself attached currently :)
 
Hey Brad how r u !

Yes, Adobe must solve the "Legacy" issue. Without it, they own your work files, not you. The day you stop paying is the day access ceases to your own work !

Maybe there is hope in exporting AAF files or XMLs of every project, but as of the time of writing this pathway is flawed.

Somewhere on the other thread is references to Adobe only ever having the 5 last versions of software available for access for old projects. Assuming there are 2 updates a year ( ? ) that means your good for 2 1/2 years. After that who knows & your paying for it. I can't imagine programme or feature production been happy with that time window. Heck commercials aren't happy with it either, just ask me !

So somewhere some how they must solve "Legacy". Then I suspect a lot of this negativity will subside. It is very legitimate concern for many, no legacy = no cloud .

Myself, I'm moving projects onto other platforms. As this episode & the apple one has proven, there is real value in being multi-platformed, multi-disciplined & not anchored to any one company.
 
Brad Allen said:
I rent my scarlet out on jobs with myself attached currently :)
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Would you consider renting a Scarlet instead of owning one?
Cheers
B.
 
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Germany is working on a law that requires software to be able to be resold like any other good you can purchase.

If that happens, Adobe should be... wait for it ... screwed! :)
 
Phil Holland said:
I know for a fact that when Adobe made the decision to go pure CC they calculated a percentage of folks that wouldn't like the new model. However, I think this number and public out cry (and the opinions from working professionals) is showing them that perhaps there is another way.

I'd keep it civil and let them know that switching platforms is the option that you are going to proceed with if CC is the only licensing option presented to you. Tell them, as with this thread, that to ensure your continued support of Adobe products and continued loyalty as a customer that you will need another option to allow you to work on your projects.

There's many options to explore here, some would even pay a modest premium for the ability to maintain their "infinite license" on their current version.


For myself, I've been "religiously" paying Adobe about once a year for their newest versions mainly on the Adobe Production Premium Suite. CC will likely work with that mindset and that works for me as long as the updates roll in. I even meet folks who use and love the subscription concept of CC since it's inception as they treat it almost like a cell phone bill or cable bill every month. It even makes a lot of sense for my students as well. It did open up a new market overall. I'm sure they found enough success with the concept to pursue it as a whole.


However, I do see the major downsides to this subscription license model that effect hobbyist through professionals. That has to be taken into consideration here.


I myself am a huge Adobe advocate and use their products on a daily basis. I don't know if I could make a living without them at this point. I'm happy to support and pay for the tools I use to make a living and with CC it's really a fairly good deal overall. However, it's also extremely important to at least listen, carefully consider, and make logical decisions based on the discomfort and disappointment that a percentage of your customers are expressing.


I'm going to be a happy CC customer. Really excited at having access to tools that are even outside my previous Production Premium License.

Adobe stepped up their game big time between CS5 and CS6. Now that they control the market share it's not exactly the best time to put the foot on the neck of some of those who got you there.
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Well spoken, Phil!

I for one am torn between liking and really despising it. If they would continue the option to buy a non-suscription version like they used to, all would be fine.
I would go even further and say that they need to make the "monthly-basis" option the standard with no additional charge.

The good thing about CC is that you don't have to shell out big bucks to be able to use it and that should eliminate the need for illegal copying.
 
Mike Garrick said:
Hey Brad how r u !

Yes, Adobe must solve the "Legacy" issue. Without it, they own your work files, not you. The day you stop paying is the day access ceases to your own work !

Maybe there is hope in exporting AAF files or XMLs of every project, but as of the time of writing this pathway is flawed.

Somewhere on the other thread is references to Adobe only ever having the 5 last versions of software available for access for old projects. Assuming there are 2 updates a year ( ? ) that means your good for 2 1/2 years. After that who knows & your paying for it. I can't imagine programme or feature production been happy with that time window. Heck commercials aren't happy with it either, just ask me !

So somewhere some how they must solve "Legacy". Then I suspect a lot of this negativity will subside. It is very legitimate concern for many, no legacy = no cloud .

Myself, I'm moving projects onto other platforms. As this episode & the apple one has proven, there is real value in being multi-platformed, multi-disciplined & not anchored to any one company.
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Hey Mike - going well thanks :)

Yeah, I'm not sure what Adobe's access to older versions will look like - would good to have a clearer picture of this and exactly how long in time the versioning stretches back. Hopefully we'll get some more answers on this - definitely hearing you on this point though :)
 
It amazes me, the number of people on that forum who don't understand what creative cloud is, and spit out random false facts they believe are true about it. Mainly that they think they have to work off the cloud. That's completely untrue. You download all the applications to your hard drive still.
 
I was virtually forced to go the subscription route when I got a new DSLR recently as the only way to read the new DSLR's raw files was with CS6 PS. I'm still on the fence regarding the overall subscription approach, mainly to legacy support issues down the road.

What's the harm of giving customers the CHOICE of purchasing a product or subscribing to it?
I think Adobe expects CC subscriptions to cut down on software piracy issues (which full licensed product are more susceptible to) and is a bigger factor pushing this business model than people think.
 
Paul Duvilla said:
It amazes me, the number of people on that forum who don't understand what creative cloud is
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The amazement can be reduced by considering the amount of people neglecting the ramifications of dependency, control and perpetual debt.
 
so honestly asking, what's a good alternative to photoshop, after effects, dreamweaver, flash, media encoder etc. adobe has been long integrated i post work from web, tv/film, design, and photography. i guess people will just stay on a older version? there aren't very cost effect solutions to some listed above.

i think people will get by with using older version of photoshop, all their "new" features are hardly ever used from all my retouching and compositing friends. AE has been the most cost saving solution for VFX work, Nuke isn't exactly cheap. for the higher end, i think the move to Nuke will probably be a gradual thing. Foundry will be happy.

i always found media encoder to be pretty staple, i could get great gamma/color results out of it, whatever codec you loaded in your system it could do it, and way faster than compressor or mpeg stream clip. stuff like episode, and sorenson are really expensive.

and i guess there are a lot of alternatives for web based stuff. but this is gonna throw a lot of industries in a big loop, Adobe really messed up, I hope they change their minds before it's way way too late. they still have time.

but also a good time for a lot of third parties to step up!

and fyi, i am a subscriber, but I'm not a hardcore post guy anymore. I just need access to adobe software to just keep up with trends in new software, certain types of rendering, and a few handy features/occasional editing. not a big deal for a guy who doesn't use the software too seriously, but I see as well what an issue this is.
 
Brad Allen said:
Yeah, I'm not sure what Adobe's access to older versions will look like - would good to have a clearer picture of this and exactly how long in time the versioning stretches back. Hopefully we'll get some more answers on this - definitely hearing you on this point though :)
Click to expand...

My guess is that once a very (very[SUP]6[/SUP]) old version is no longer available on the cloud they will probably make it available for free like they recently did with Creative Suite 2.
http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
The amazement can be reduced by considering the amount of people neglecting the ramifications of dependency, control and perpetual debt.
Click to expand...

The unfortunate reality here is that in the eyes of the current social media entitlement generation, the concepts of dependency, control and debt have little meaning...

When it all comes down to it, we're all just going to have to sign up sooner or later because Adobe has us by the balls. Sadly enough, one of the most realistic replacements for Photoshop is a $15 OSX app called Pixelmator. It's awesome, check it out if you haven't already. But it's no Photoshop replacement. Ironically, I could do without Premiere and After Effects, two of the primary apps most of us here are using. I can't live without Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro, and the list goes on.

If there were ever an ideal time for a competitor to swoop in, this is it.... Anyone? <crickets>

Yep... Heavy handed or not, Adobe knows what they're doing here, in terms of industry control. I just wish they would stop beating around the bush and hiding behind the cloud. They need to come right out and be honest as to what this is.. It's a subscription model that harkens back to the '80s. Something that many of us had to put up with from the mid '80s through late '90s in this industry to use our professional software. Something most of us thought we had finally moved past and left behind. Apparently not.

Anyway, I'll probably end up with two seats. It's going to cost me an average of double what I had with Adobe's VLS, even after the promotional discounts for this coming year. And I will have to consolidate onto fewer workstations. For the times when I pick up larger projects and have to bring in some help, I guess I'll have to scale up my seats of CC. All just a cost of doing business with the new system.

I'm predicting that piracy of Adobe's software will increase significantly with this.
 
I have been using CC for over a year now as well, and have not had a single issue. It's funny to me that so many people are scared that a few years down the road they will no longer have the ability to open projects any longer. On the rare occasion that I have to go back several years and access an edit to a project I worked on long ago, I have never opened that project in the old version in which it was created, it has always been opened in the version I currently run. $50 a month is a small investment for the type of product that adobe has been delivering, especially when they ARE the company that has implemented an R3D workflow because we asked for it, years before anyone other editing suite had a clue.
 
The emotional response to this new direction from Adobe is quite something. I read so many posts and want to comment immediately, but then also feel like i'd just be pissing into the wind.

I don't have to like Adobe, but I like and use their tools. Actually I love some of them, like Photoshop and Lightroom. Adobe is a cold, calculating, business entity... end of story. We've been spoiled because RED seems to function with a caring side, conversing and listening to their customers. Most companies (Adobe, Apple, etc, etc, etc) are not like RED.

If every auto manufacturer suddenly decided tomorrow that you can no longer buy a car, you have to lease one (oh, and don't go over 10,000 miles per year or we charge you up the wazoo!)... you have 2 choices: lease the car, or ride a bike. Guessing most of us would just lease the car, realizing there's not much we can do about it. We can provide constructive and thoughtful (something many posters lately have not done, in my opinion) feedback to the company, and hope they listen. But we must realize they don't HAVE to listed.

Thank God for all of us that RED does... we're very fortunate in that regard. (see, I even say 'we' like we're all part of some big RED family...)
 
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