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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ADOBE SAYS "NO !" TO THE PEOPLE

It is not an issue of software compatibility, not for me anyway. I don't think I am in the minority on this. I am more concerned with the fact that you will be unable to open projects unless you put a continuous syphon in your wallet.

With my current license I can continue to work and access old projects for as long as I can maintain a computer capable of running the software. My current computer could run for 3... 5... or even eight years and during that time I will not have to lay out another penny on software. If you do the math over time, the longer you are in, the more it hurts:

(barring subscription fee increases beyond $50/year)
1 year $600
3 years $1800
5 years $3000
8 years $4800

Now $4800 over eight years may not seem like a lot for a business, but for the independent artist who is not working professionally and may only upgrade every second or third version that additional expense =$2400-$3200. That is no small number.

What percentage of Adobe customers do you think are using their one or two pieces of Adobe software to generate artwork that never generates income? I don't know the answer, but I would bet that Kodak would make a good comparison for starters. What percentage of Kodak revenue was consumer, and how much was professional? I'm pretty sure their consumer market significantly dwarfed their pro markets. The non-professional is going to be the loudest voice in the Adobe subscription debate so long as they don't lie down. I am optimistic that the pressure could be overwhelming. OTOH, I understand that Photoshop is not a mom and pop piece of photo software. That diminishes the consumer impact on the discussion, and I am unsure how much.

If you are using more than two pieces of software in the suite that number is even less significant, but how many of the users I describe are really using more than two titles?

Stefan Scherperel said:
I have been using CC for over a year now as well, and have not had a single issue. It's funny to me that so many people are scared that a few years down the road they will no longer have the ability to open projects any longer. On the rare occasion that I have to go back several years and access an edit to a project I worked on long ago, I have never opened that project in the old version in which it was created, it has always been opened in the version I currently run. $50 a month is a small investment for the type of product that adobe has been delivering, especially when they ARE the company that has implemented an R3D workflow because we asked for it, years before anyone other editing suite had a clue.
Click to expand...
 
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I don't think this is going to be a problem for Adobe. I work in an industry that has a vocal minority online that complains that they aren't going to buy our product every time we do some small change that's meant to improve revenues, but in the end, it doesn't matter. People still need/want the product and it gets purchased.

That being said, I welcome this change if it means getting more than 6 months of bug fixing for my software. We buy the new version every time it comes out and it would be nice to have a rolling subscription rather than trying to prove to our purchasing department that this software is necessary to get.

As for old projects, Has adobe ever stopped importing old projects? I've opened up ones from Premiere Pro 7 that still opened in CS5.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
When it all comes down to it, we're all just going to have to sign up sooner or later because Adobe has us by the balls.
Click to expand...

This might be true for folks that work with Adobe daily and require say photoshop or AE...but i'd counter there are OTHER alternatives and for the part time user like myself that has owned Premier for years, but only occasionally used it....it counts me out of Adobe's Cloud. So for the die-hards that absolutely have no alternative and have income coming in because of Adobe products great. But how many out there are REALLY in that position? I know piles of users that use photoshop, in design and other Adobe software for mere creative purposes and web work but will choke at $600/year since there biz is not directly tied to Adobe software. I'm fully in that position. I shoot and occasionally edit....so i'll move on to FCPx and pixelmator and Motion....I can buy it once and upgrade when apple has upgrades..... i don't think of Adobe's software like my phone contract where i absolutley need it...Wait, i don't have a cell phone contract.

I think it is a strange reality how in the past 10-15 years everyone thinks in terms of what something costs per month and boils that down to how much that person charges an hour. I'm of the opinion that burying oneself in monthly obligations is a BAD thing and when times get tight something has to be let go....Of course there are things we must pay monthly....but cell phones, software and credit cards are not ones i'll ever accept. I can always go out of my way to make a skype call or use my pre-pay cell phone and cancel when i'm away for months at a time....I think that this dependency on things like this will bury the average guy/gal now coming up in the world....cell phones are the perfect example of young adults becoming trained and buried in monthly obligations. I won't let software open that door for me....
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
...

I'm predicting that piracy of Adobe's software will increase significantly with this.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. Adobe may have some brilliant star app code-writers, but the hacker community is made up of a bunch of angry Supernovas who can hack the subscription model in their sleep. And while the majority of Adobe's base users are people of integrity, once you feel you've been wronged you can justify using a subscription defeat.

Adobe really needs to talk to some PEOPLE people before forcing the subscription model on everyone.

EDIT: This is not a threat, just a warning to Adobe to prepare for Justice League hackers to single them out as a target.
 
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Exactly.

I would sooner utilize a FCPX, Resolve, Smoke workflow than burden myself with an Adobe subscription. Photoshop is going to hurt, but I will get over it.

Johnny Friday said:
This might be true for folks that work with Adobe daily and require say photoshop or AE...but i'd counter there are OTHER alternatives and for the part time user like myself that has owned Premier for years, but only occasionally used it....it counts me out of Adobe's Cloud. So for the die-hards that absolutely have no alternative and have income coming in because of Adobe products great. But how many out there are REALLY in that position? I know piles of users that use photoshop, in design and other Adobe software for mere creative purposes and web work but will choke at $600/year since there biz is not directly tied to Adobe software. I'm fully in that position. I shoot and occasionally edit....so i'll move on to FCPx and pixelmator and Motion....I can buy it once and upgrade when apple has upgrades..... i don't think of Adobe's software like my phone contract where i absolutley need it...Wait, i don't have a cell phone contract.

I think it is a strange reality how in the past 10-15 years everyone thinks in terms of what something costs per month and boils that down to how much that person charges an hour. I'm of the opinion that burying oneself in monthly obligations is a BAD thing and when times get tight something has to be let go....Of course there are things we must pay monthly....but cell phones, software and credit cards are not ones i'll ever accept. I can always go out of my way to make a skype call or use my pre-pay cell phone and cancel when i'm away for months at a time....I think that this dependency on things like this will bury the average guy/gal now coming up in the world....cell phones are the perfect example of young adults becoming trained and buried in monthly obligations. I won't let software open that door for me....
Click to expand...
 
Adobe says noooo (sorry, couldn't resist):
 
I use Corel's PaintShop Pro for working on single images... I find it more flexible and user friendly than PhotoShop. Hopefully a company like Corel can become a player in the UHD industry through some mergers or acquisitions and fill in some gaps between Adobe and other Players. While there's nothing wrong with a benevolent business dictatorship, an adversarial one with their customers just invites competition.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The unfortunate reality here is that in the eyes of the current social media entitlement generation, the concepts of dependency, control and debt have little meaning...

When it all comes down to it, we're all just going to have to sign up sooner or later because Adobe has us by the balls. Sadly enough, one of the most realistic replacements for Photoshop is a $15 OSX app called Pixelmator. It's awesome, check it out if you haven't already. But it's no Photoshop replacement. Ironically, I could do without Premiere and After Effects, two of the primary apps most of us here are using. I can't live without Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro, and the list goes on.

If there were ever an ideal time for a competitor to swoop in, this is it.... Anyone? <crickets>

Yep... Heavy handed or not, Adobe knows what they're doing here, in terms of industry control. I just wish they would stop beating around the bush and hiding behind the cloud. They need to come right out and be honest as to what this is.. It's a subscription model that harkens back to the '80s. Something that many of us had to put up with from the mid '80s through late '90s in this industry to use our professional software. Something most of us thought we had finally moved past and left behind. Apparently not.

Anyway, I'll probably end up with two seats. It's going to cost me an average of double what I had with Adobe's VLS, even after the promotional discounts for this coming year. And I will have to consolidate onto fewer workstations. For the times when I pick up larger projects and have to bring in some help, I guess I'll have to scale up my seats of CC. All just a cost of doing business with the new system.

I'm predicting that piracy of Adobe's software will increase significantly with this.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with everything....

I myself am not tied to their peripheral products....never even opened indesign....

I will need photoshop....as there is no comparison to anything out there.
AE.....I love it, but been a Fusion user for years, and it is light years ahead.....sure no built in 3dtracker....but i have syntheyes and mocha pro.
PPro I will miss....

It's interesting the timing of this, as people are calling for avid to step up.....but don't realize they are in the worst financial position they have ever been in. They are running double digit losses every quarter, and their very future is in question.

Adobe seems to be capitalizing on their increased market position, as is noted....for a few of their key products....their is literally no comparison.

That being said....photoshop cs6 will probably be fine for the next few years...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The unfortunate reality here is that in the eyes of the current social media entitlement generation, the concepts of dependency, control and debt have little meaning...

When it all comes down to it, we're all just going to have to sign up sooner or later because Adobe has us by the balls. Sadly enough, one of the most realistic replacements for Photoshop is a $15 OSX app called Pixelmator. It's awesome, check it out if you haven't already. But it's no Photoshop replacement. Ironically, I could do without Premiere and After Effects, two of the primary apps most of us here are using. I can't live without Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro, and the list goes on.

If there were ever an ideal time for a competitor to swoop in, this is it.... Anyone? <crickets>

Yep... Heavy handed or not, Adobe knows what they're doing here, in terms of industry control. I just wish they would stop beating around the bush and hiding behind the cloud. They need to come right out and be honest as to what this is.. It's a subscription model that harkens back to the '80s. Something that many of us had to put up with from the mid '80s through late '90s in this industry to use our professional software. Something most of us thought we had finally moved past and left behind. Apparently not.

Anyway, I'll probably end up with two seats. It's going to cost me an average of double what I had with Adobe's VLS, even after the promotional discounts for this coming year. And I will have to consolidate onto fewer workstations. For the times when I pick up larger projects and have to bring in some help, I guess I'll have to scale up my seats of CC. All just a cost of doing business with the new system.

I'm predicting that piracy of Adobe's software will increase significantly with this.
Click to expand...

Johnny Friday said:
This might be true for folks that work with Adobe daily and require say photoshop or AE...but i'd counter there are OTHER alternatives and for the part time user like myself that has owned Premier for years, but only occasionally used it....it counts me out of Adobe's Cloud. So for the die-hards that absolutely have no alternative and have income coming in because of Adobe products great. But how many out there are REALLY in that position? I know piles of users that use photoshop, in design and other Adobe software for mere creative purposes and web work but will choke at $600/year since there biz is not directly tied to Adobe software. I'm fully in that position. I shoot and occasionally edit....so i'll move on to FCPx and pixelmator and Motion....I can buy it once and upgrade when apple has upgrades..... i don't think of Adobe's software like my phone contract where i absolutley need it...Wait, i don't have a cell phone contract.

I think it is a strange reality how in the past 10-15 years everyone thinks in terms of what something costs per month and boils that down to how much that person charges an hour. I'm of the opinion that burying oneself in monthly obligations is a BAD thing and when times get tight something has to be let go....Of course there are things we must pay monthly....but cell phones, software and credit cards are not ones i'll ever accept. I can always go out of my way to make a skype call or use my pre-pay cell phone and cancel when i'm away for months at a time....I think that this dependency on things like this will bury the average guy/gal now coming up in the world....cell phones are the perfect example of young adults becoming trained and buried in monthly obligations. I won't let software open that door for me....
Click to expand...

Elsie N said:
I tend to agree. Adobe may have some brilliant star app code-writers, but the hacker community is made up of a bunch of angry Supernovas who can hack the subscription model in their sleep. And while the majority of Adobe's base users are people of integrity, once you feel you've been wronged you can justify using a subscription defeat.

Adobe really needs to talk to some people people before forcing the subscription model on everyone.

EDIT: This is not a threat, just a warning to Adobe to prepare for Justice League hackers to single them out as a target.
Click to expand...

Where is the like button?
 
Here is the real heart of the matter....we have no control over future decisions and are at the whim of adobe's pricing....

Check out this document prepared for investors
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adob...or-relations/PDFs/IR-presentation-may2013.pdf

to those that laugh at the idea of adobe suddenly raising prices...this is a statement from their own PR to their share holders

we may be unsuccessful in maintaining our target pricing, new seat adoption and projected renewal rates, or we may select a target
price that is not optimal and could negatively affect our sales or earnings;


That kinda sums up the fears of the subscribers as well, adobe would never acknowledge this to end users, but will warn shareholders

you will also see when you read the document, that they have anticipated a revolt...and are prepared to weather the storm, as they have already prepared shareholders....but it appears they are very focused on the subscription model despite potential shot term and long term revenue.

• if new or current customers desire only perpetual licenses, our subscription sales may lag behind expectations;
• if new or current customers desire to purchase or renew only point product subscriptions rather than acquire the entire Creative
Cloud offering, our subscription sales may lag behind our expectations;
• the increased emphasis on a cloud strategy may raise concerns among our installed perpetual license customer base;
• we may be unsuccessful in maintaining our target pricing, new seat adoption and projected renewal rates, or we may select a target
price that is not optimal and could negatively affect our sales or earnings;
• our revenues are expected to decline over the short term and may decline over the long term as a result of this strategy;
• our shift to a subscription licensing model may result in confusion among our customers, partners, resellers and investors;
• our relationships with existing partners that resell perpetual license products may be damaged; and
• we may incur costs at a higher than forecasted rate as we expand our cloud operations.

also interesting in this article is the fact that adobe's cloud marketing products and strategy have a 50% larger revenue opportunity compared to their digital media products.
Meaning, in the eye of shareholders and exec's, adobe will become a primarily social media and marketing focused company...with a substantial digital media presence.

One more quote....the real reason behind this move
On track to drive 40% of Adobe’s overall revenue to be recurring by the
end of 2013, one year ahead of our target

Food for thought
 
the reason we're all upset is that we all love adobe's software... because it really is great.

this move is motivated 100% by the sentiments detailed in the shareholder report. shamelessly so. this is mandatory for a reason. it's infuriating their customer base for a reason. it's counter to what the customers want. used to be that a company made money by innovating and giving people what they wanted, not strong-arming them into doing what they don't. strange times indeed.

i have to appreciate the comedy of adobe attempting to commiserate with us... saying "yeah... change is hard" as though the creative suite machine is broken and nobody knows how to fix it.

overall it's pretty disgusting, and i think the reason so many people are passionately upset about it is for that very reason. it's really just shameful, and that's that.
 
Question for David.... a fried of mine swallowed the pill and bought into the Adobe Creative Cloud the other day. I asked them how it was going and they told me it's not even working properly. Furious, they contacted Adobe and were told that because of updates to fix an instability the file sync feature would be disabled for the time being. So, when there is a problem on Adobe's end, like this one, will the user be compensated for downtime?
 
David McGavran said:
Hi All,

Dave here again... Bunch of Adobe responses in the other thread about this...

Cheers

Dave
Click to expand...

It's too bad Adobe has responses instead of answers to all of the issues their customers have regarding their changes in policy.
 
Brian Robbins said:
Question for David.... a fried of mine swallowed the pill and bought into the Adobe Creative Cloud the other day. I asked them how it was going and they told me it's not even working properly. Furious, they contacted Adobe and were told that because of updates to fix an instability the file sync feature would be disabled for the time being. So, when there is a problem on Adobe's end, like this one, will the user be compensated for downtime?
Click to expand...

That is a good question for tech support. I don't have an answer for you on this.

Cheers

Dave
 
anyone here planning on calling Adobe customer service for any reason at all my recommendation is to have some sort of entertainment on hand... those calls do take a while.
 
The truth is the subscription model will be a good deal for power users and new users. Users like myself who only use the software once and a while will feel mistreated and move on. I can live with the version of Photoshop I have now, I don't need more tools that I will seldom use.

But make no mistake, this is a PR nightmare. Spin it anyway you want, Adobe clearly has stopped listening to a large percentage of their customers. They changed the rules on us after we have thousands invested in their product. I will try my hardest not to be an Adobe customer as I hate the new model of paying a monthly fee. If Adobe is successful in this, others will follow. I am voting with my feet.
 
nice one....
it had my wife sucked in for the first minute
 
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