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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Adobe Abandons Creative Suite, Announces Full Switch to Creative Cloud

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Thought this might contribute to the discussion.....




"We don't lease our PANZERS"
 
Mike Garrick said:
@ mikeburton....If you ever intend hosting your R3D's in the cloud good luck .

IMO for media/film production the cloud in all its various guises is a crock. Have you read some of the comments on this or the other thread ? Do you really want to be "locked out" from using your own copyrighted material because of licensing error or that you paid your subscription in another currency than where you presently reside ? Do want to deal with call centre in India to try & regain access to your material on tight deadline ?

Yes Adobe has come up with some good tools but now just like their stock price they are dropping the ball .

Anyway .......I dont know what I complaining about we've all been & here before with the Apple FCP7 debacle .......& unfortunately Avid isn't looking too good either.
Click to expand...

Did I ever say I want to host MY media in the cloud, or your's or anybody else's for that matter. Did you read what I wrote? And WTF are you talking about anyways? I've NEVER been locked out of any of our 3 CC licenses. EVER, in any country. Do you own a CC license? If you did perhaps you'd feel differently. The difference here is, I'm speaking from experience whereas you seem to be speaking on behalf of "things you've read on the Internet". If you don't like what you've read then fine for you, no one is forcing you to go one way or another.
BTW - while you're still trying to figure out which NLE package best suites your particular needs ill be working.
 
Apologies Mike if i misunderstood your point.

Good luck with working on your one NLE package.
 
Mike Garrick said:
Apologies Mike if i misunderstood your point.

Good luck with working on your one NLE package.
Click to expand...

It's not about one package over the other. All of the tools are valid but understand, that there is no point rejecting something on a public forum that you don't have personal experience with. It would be like me saying "I won't buy an Epic Monochrome because I've read that RED has terrible customer service so I don't want to be stranded one day." I don't blame the guys that have had terrible experiences from Red customer support and are voicing their experience but the guys that bitch about it on set that have never had that experience and detract others are just talking nonesense and helping no one. There's far too much of that on here.
Thanks for posting that video though, it gave me a laugh.

PS - All of my experience with RED customer service has been stellar, just using it as an example to prove a point.
 
I almost want to sell my CS5 suite...Did that to Apple when they screwed me... But the thing is Adobe has been putting the crunch to us before this with forcing us to update more readily. This is just one more step in there Monty Burns direction. They think they got us cuz there products rock, which they do. But not all of us want this model clearly...I wanted to personally run all three suites, Apple, Avid, Adobe and update as infrequently as possible on all unless needed. So FCP7 and CS6 are then EOL and you guys now totally threw me a curve ball is whats happening? Great...

How is it that hedging myself against 3 different NLE's I still got screwed by 2?
 
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I'm having a hard time deciding which is worse at the moment: Adobe's rental only future, or those coming on here that are happy with the rental model that's under no threat, giving the rest of us $hit for expressing our disgust at having our choice taken away.
 
Hi Everyone

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

Historically, Adobe has run on a 12-18 month release cycle, and licenses were perpetual. This meant that, were we to (for example) release a new product in May, if we were to hear from the community in June that there was an absolutely critical feature that we were lacking, the earliest we could provide customers with that feature would be the following May. This is not an internal Adobe thing, it's due to very limiting and strict revenue recognition laws which prevent the addition of new features to perpetual license customers at zero cost.

The Creative Cloud model changes all this. Because it's a subscription system, we are going to be able to add new features to the software much more regularly than the 12-18 month release cycle, and I predict you'll start seeing this change pretty soon. This, I believe, provides significant added value to Creative Cloud when compared to the previous model. Creative Cloud allows us to much more aggressively develop, and in these days of light-speed technological change, this will, I hope, be a great benefit. And note that you can have your apps installed on two separate machines, even one Mac and one PC, and use the apps on both.

I'd also like to dispel a couple of misconceptions. Firstly, this is not some kind of hosted service. These are the same applications, installed locally, that you would have got if we sold them on a DVD. The only difference is that you install them via a download. We are not hosting your files (unless you want us to!). Secondly, you do not need to be permanently connected to the internet. If you're on a monthly subscription, there is a mandatory check-in every 30 days to check you've paid, and there is a 7-day grace period if you haven't. If you buy a year in advance, that check-in period is 180 days.

Regarding pricing, we've pitched it at a point where the majority of users who upgrade regularly are likely to be paying less, for more frequent updates, access to all of our apps, and the CC community. If you use the special offer we have currently, you can get all of what would have been 'Master Collection' for 30 dollars US a month.

There is a very thorough FAQ on our site too, which may have been linked to previously, but just for the record: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.edu.html

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.
 
Al Mooney said:
Hi Everyone

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

Historically, Adobe has run on a 12-18 month release cycle, and licenses were perpetual. This meant that, were we to (for example) release a new product in May, if we were to hear from the community in June that there was an absolutely critical feature that we were lacking, the earliest we could provide customers with that feature would be the following May. This is not an internal Adobe thing, it's due to very limiting and strict revenue recognition laws which prevent the addition of new features to perpetual license customers at zero cost.

The Creative Cloud model changes all this. Because it's a subscription system, we are going to be able to add new features to the software much more regularly than the 12-18 month release cycle, and I predict you'll start seeing this change pretty soon. This, I believe, provides significant added value to Creative Cloud when compared to the previous model. Creative Cloud allows us to much more aggressively develop, and in these days of light-speed technological change, this will, I hope, be a great benefit. And note that you can have your apps installed on two separate machines, even one Mac and one PC, and use the apps on both.

I'd also like to dispel a couple of misconceptions. Firstly, this is not some kind of hosted service. These are the same applications, installed locally, that you would have got if we sold them on a DVD. The only difference is that you install them via a download. We are not hosting your files (unless you want us to!). Secondly, you do not need to be permanently connected to the internet. If you're on a monthly subscription, there is a mandatory check-in every 30 days to check you've paid, and there is a 7-day grace period if you haven't. If you buy a year in advance, that check-in period is 180 days.

Regarding pricing, we've pitched it at a point where the majority of users who upgrade regularly are likely to be paying less, for more frequent updates, access to all of our apps, and the CC community. If you use the special offer we have currently, you can get all of what would have been 'Master Collection' for 30 dollars US a month.

There is a very thorough FAQ on our site too, which may have been linked to previously, but just for the record: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.edu.html

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.
Click to expand...

Your post offers food for thought. I don't so much (personally) mind the subscription fee. It is actually beneficial to some to be able to spread out a payment over time rather than a big one time payment. I think the problem is that by having a perpetual license you have the confidence that you somehow own something. The subscription has the feeling you are borrowing something and if your fortunes change at some point, you and your work are soon parted.

It's a bit like leasing an automobile or buying one. Some people are perfectly happy with the lease while others want to know they own the car. At any rate, thanks for coming here to hear the complaints.
 
Al Mooney said:
Hi Everyone

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.


I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.
Click to expand...

Al - you're a brave man stepping into the lion's den :)

The issue is complex - but for me (and I think many others) it comes down to the fact that you're basically renting the software. Once you stop with a CC licence, you software is dead and you can't open any files or legacy projects. To do that, you'll need to subscribe again.

Now, you may say that Adobe can add more features and increase iterations between full releases, and I can see this completely.

But, the big caveat is lack of ownership and ability to have a perpetual licence.

Also, being based in Europe, prices here are not as good as the US, so it's often better to purchase a full licence - be it web install or DVD (this applies to software across the board - only a few programs actually charge a fair price here - but that's yet another discussion!).

My two cents and an 'easy fix' on this is to offer an 'Exit' licence... basically, if you cancel your CC and want to have a perpetual licence on your system you pay a fee that makes that licence permanent. You can't upgrade (etc), but, at least that way, if you want to maintain a licence on your machine (or studio) you have the 'option' to do so.

The backlash, IMO, is because Adobe have 'removed' choice - and not provided an option like this.
 
Al Mooney said:
Hi Everyone

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

Historically, Adobe has run on a 12-18 month release cycle, and licenses were perpetual. This meant that, were we to (for example) release a new product in May, if we were to hear from the community in June that there was an absolutely critical feature that we were lacking, the earliest we could provide customers with that feature would be the following May. This is not an internal Adobe thing, it's due to very limiting and strict revenue recognition laws which prevent the addition of new features to perpetual license customers at zero cost.

The Creative Cloud model changes all this. Because it's a subscription system, we are going to be able to add new features to the software much more regularly than the 12-18 month release cycle, and I predict you'll start seeing this change pretty soon. This, I believe, provides significant added value to Creative Cloud when compared to the previous model. Creative Cloud allows us to much more aggressively develop, and in these days of light-speed technological change, this will, I hope, be a great benefit. And note that you can have your apps installed on two separate machines, even one Mac and one PC, and use the apps on both.

I'd also like to dispel a couple of misconceptions. Firstly, this is not some kind of hosted service. These are the same applications, installed locally, that you would have got if we sold them on a DVD. The only difference is that you install them via a download. We are not hosting your files (unless you want us to!). Secondly, you do not need to be permanently connected to the internet. If you're on a monthly subscription, there is a mandatory check-in every 30 days to check you've paid, and there is a 7-day grace period if you haven't. If you buy a year in advance, that check-in period is 180 days.

Regarding pricing, we've pitched it at a point where the majority of users who upgrade regularly are likely to be paying less, for more frequent updates, access to all of our apps, and the CC community. If you use the special offer we have currently, you can get all of what would have been 'Master Collection' for 30 dollars US a month.

There is a very thorough FAQ on our site too, which may have been linked to previously, but just for the record: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.edu.html

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.
Click to expand...
Hi Al. Thanks for dropping in to clarify some points. However, the only thing you've said that I was unaware of was the 180 day login period. It doesn't change how this works. As a customer who has updated over recent years through to CS6, if the subscription model enabled me to update and KEEP the updated software - in working condition - if I decided to drop out at any time, that would be a fair deal. Those just starting out in the cloud would obviously not get that option. But to be no different to someone coming out of the blue and paying rent is unacceptable. You are removing choice. Why?

And you're saying there's a law that says you cannot provide updates for free? To paying customers? Hmm...

In any case, why take away our choice? If I don't care about constant updates (I'd find updates more often than once every few months a p.i.t.a. anyway due to having to reinstall all my plug-ins each time), why can't I buy into new software when I feel like it? Why are you removing your original source of revenue to this so-far shortlived moneymaking method?
 
Hi Al,

Welcome and thanks for shimming in. As for your post, I think all that is pretty clear. However, it doesn't erase the fact that it is a step back compared to the previous model. Lets compare this to the competition- not in quality, but in service. FCPX is a software I own and can install in 5 computers. It had since its release 8 updates, which where free. Lets look at adobe: Premiere Cs6 also had a couple of stability and small enhancements for free. Now in CC, I will not own the software, will be paying about 600 USD a year, and will be getting "free" updates. How long ago has FCPX come out ? About 2 years? Including the other pro apps, this would mean , in new Adobe World, at least 1200 USD, a lot more than I paid for the Apple software which is constantly updating with features.

Lets not forget that new "features" often come with bugs and need time to mature and be stable. If I get CC, prudence tels me to not immediately update and see if it works well with OS, Rocket, etc. If I'm subscription based, I feel like I'm paying for something that should be right in the first place and that I should own. Yes its 30 or 50 dollars a month, but it feels like I can be kicked out of the house if I miss rent for a month or two.

Anyway, you guys know best what business you run. I'm back to Apple. Hope someone makes an affordable alternative to after effects!
 
"The only reason I would ever consider upgrading to cloud subscription would be if Premiere began to support SLI"

Premiere Pro CC does support dual gpu's for export

Cheers

Dave
 
Thanks Al and Dave. As long as Adobe CC allows for the standard two "instances" installed, like a workstation and say laptop, I'm a happy content creator.
 
Yes it does allow for 2 installations. Added are they can be mac or win and can also be different languages...

Cheers

Dave
 
I looked in the adobe faq, but how does this work with third party plugins? If we are constantly getting adobe updates is there the possibility that some of the updates can *potentially* break some of our scripts and plugins in lets say, after effects?
So then third party plugin developers will have to be releasing updates to keep up with CC? Just thinking longer term is all. Or is there going to be designated "big release updates" bi-annually or something simliar.

I guess I'm just wondering if on a big project, what guarantee do I have that a new update will not break some third party plugin? Or change a feature to cause issues with existing project files?
 
Joe Minuni said:
I looked in the adobe faq, but how does this work with third party plugins? If we are constantly getting adobe updates is there the possibility that some of the updates can *potentially* break some of our scripts and plugins in lets say, after effects?
So then third party plugin developers will have to be releasing updates to keep up with CC? Just thinking longer term is all. Or is there going to be designated "big release updates" bi-annually or something simliar.

I guess I'm just wondering if on a big project, what guarantee do I have that a new update will not break some third party plugin? Or change a feature to cause issues with existing project files?
Click to expand...
Joe, you don't have to update on a regular basis. You just have to have your licensed computers check in every once in a while. Having said that, I do see some potential for configuration problems, and I'm sure that's something they have given thought to.

So far, CC has worked well for me. I often do clean installs of OS and apps to try and keep things running smoothly and it's been rather painless to get the Adobe CS back onto my system. I've been trying to let this decision by Adobe sit with me for a little bit before jumping to any conclusions. I am a big fan of choice. We all have different needs as content creators. We all have different financial situations. By removing choice, some will be hurt, at least in the short term. Apple made this mistake with FCP X by immediately taking away FCP 7. I would say that in Adobe's case, there has probably been a lot more thought put into the WHY than Apple did with FCP X. I think the two companies have very different financial needs right now. Same with Avid. These are companies that need to make money from their content creation tools. Apple doesn't at the moment.

If they are 100% committed to a cloud/subscription basis then they key is to interface with users to meet the challenges of this approach. As evidenced by Dave and Al checking in here, this is a dialogue that will need to take place over the next few months. No doubt there are ramifications in the short term for a lot of people, so communication is the only way to address that. I suggest trying to avoid jumping ship too quickly until the dust settles a bit and see if modifications are made to the plan upon user feedback. There are smart people at Adobe. There's no doubt they knew there would be resistance from a segment of their user base. Let's give them a little time to address this.
 
Joe Minuni said:
I looked in the adobe faq, but how does this work with third party plugins? If we are constantly getting adobe updates is there the possibility that some of the updates can *potentially* break some of our scripts and plugins in lets say, after effects?
So then third party plugin developers will have to be releasing updates to keep up with CC? Just thinking longer term is all. Or is there going to be designated "big release updates" bi-annually or something simliar.

I guess I'm just wondering if on a big project, what guarantee do I have that a new update will not break some third party plugin? Or change a feature to cause issues with existing project files?
Click to expand...

Steve answered this quite well. On CC you will have access to major versions. You have the option of updating and are not forced to. We have made. Major effort to not break plugins between releases and we will continue that effort.

Cheers
Dave
 
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