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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

V-Raptor Sensor Issues

I know of so many people watching and waiting on this issue I suspect Red will want to get this right!

The Raptor is an amazing amount of camera for the money! IMHO The only 2 things causing slow'ish desire and uptake are the terrible lack of good and useful Accessories and the sensor split flare issue...
 
...it's been a few months and no one has reached out to me with a fix at Red. When I've reached out to send it in, it was stated there was no fix at the moment, and initially the response was that it was functioning normally. It'll be interesting to see how they handle this situation, as of now it doesn't seem like they have found a way to fix it and are hoping that it just gets swept under the rug.

I will add to this post and about the V-Raptor in general. They got a LOT right with this camera body, the resolution and frame rates combined with size is incredible. Also, finally competitive data rates above 330MB/s is very welcomed. The loss of lemo monitor options / etc in lieu of a proprietary USB-C cable is a bit frustrating but manageable. The only thing holding a lot of people up is the sensor stitch issue, we know other manufacturers can remove it, so I just hope Red can do it via software and it's not an engineering thing they overlooked. If so, the V-Raptors are going to away when Raptor XL comes out and they fix the sensor issue. There's no way that camera comes out with the sensor stitch glitch.
 
James Darren said:
I wonder if fixing this in camera is a lot more complicated than first thought....
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...I would imagine that it's a original hardware design issue at this point. If everyone remembers the OLPF issue with the Red Dragon sensors, they were ahead of it by announcing a swappable system. You'd send your camera in and they'd add in the swappable OLPF system. I thought this is what Jarred was alluding to in the first month of this issue, I'm hoping they're still working on it, but it's seeming less likely. It's really is a fringe issue, but it's there and it'll show up on an important shot and cause some issues. Here's to hoping they have a fix announcement tomorrow.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
...I would imagine that it's a original hardware design issue at this point. If everyone remembers the OLPF issue with the Red Dragon sensors, they were ahead of it by announcing a swappable system. You'd send your camera in and they'd add in the swappable OLPF system. I thought this is what Jarred was alluding to in the first month of this issue, I'm hoping they're still working on it, but it's seeming less likely. It's really is a fringe issue, but it's there and it'll show up on an important shot and cause some issues. Here's to hoping they have a fix announcement tomorrow.
Click to expand...

You have to assume they are fixing it.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
...I would imagine that it's a original hardware design issue at this point. If everyone remembers the OLPF issue with the Red Dragon sensors, they were ahead of it by announcing a swappable system. You'd send your camera in and they'd add in the swappable OLPF system. I thought this is what Jarred was alluding to in the first month of this issue, I'm hoping they're still working on it, but it's seeming less likely. It's really is a fringe issue, but it's there and it'll show up on an important shot and cause some issues. Here's to hoping they have a fix announcement tomorrow.
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Hey Charles, pretty much agree with everything you've said.
As an aside, out of curiosity, did you see the issue with an RF mount lens? And if you're using an adapter, have you tried flocking it? Seems to have helped my LPL adapter, but I'm not certain it's a sure fix.
 
Ryan Chernin said:
Hey Charles, pretty much agree with everything you've said.
As an aside, out of curiosity, did you see the issue with an RF mount lens? And if you're using an adapter, have you tried flocking it? Seems to have helped my LPL adapter, but I'm not certain it's a sure fix.
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...I have yet to try with an RF lens, however, another Reduser said that it was happening with RF lenses as well. I haven't tried flocking on my PL mount. I am tempted to try another PL mount, however, I haven't heard from anyone that one mount over the other is managing the issue better.

I really hope they have some good news soon on a fix.
 
Nick Morrison said:
You have to assume they are fixing it.
Click to expand...

Really? Cause RED have a poor track-record of following-through, they just release new hardware often enough that it seems like they solve problems. Like I can think of far more issues they’ve ignored until the next camera release (sometimes completely) than ones they’ve fixed (not including promised functionality that wasn’t implemented at launch).

I dunno, if a bulletproof solution was as simple as flocking you’d think they would’ve given an update by now. In any case, hopefully it’s addressed soon, otherwise by the time they get a half-decent solution worked out, the XL will be launching.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Now that more people are seeing it on important work, I feel like Red has to address this. Which I feel is sensor glass redesign and recall. I’m going to send mine in finally, but they’ve said there is no solution though it was said they were working on it. I feel like now is the time to be transparent. Also, the option is just sell it all and stick with Arri. I started on Red built all the way up to a Monstro for a while. I’m just disappointed with this reaction by Red. My take, you may not see it now but you’ll see it on something, just hope it’s not important if Red doesn’t offer a fix here immediately.
Click to expand...

Why you sending back if there is no official fix? sorry im just clueless trying to understand the reason.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
...it's been a few months and no one has reached out to me with a fix at Red. When I've reached out to send it in, it was stated there was no fix at the moment, and initially the response was that it was functioning normally. It'll be interesting to see how they handle this situation, as of now it doesn't seem like they have found a way to fix it and are hoping that it just gets swept under the rug.

I will add to this post and about the V-Raptor in general. They got a LOT right with this camera body, the resolution and frame rates combined with size is incredible. Also, finally competitive data rates above 330MB/s is very welcomed. The loss of lemo monitor options / etc in lieu of a proprietary USB-C cable is a bit frustrating but manageable. The only thing holding a lot of people up is the sensor stitch issue, we know other manufacturers can remove it, so I just hope Red can do it via software and it's not an engineering thing they overlooked. If so, the V-Raptors are going to away when Raptor XL comes out and they fix the sensor issue. There's no way that camera comes out with the sensor stitch glitch.
Click to expand...

I had 2 friends from Turkey who wanted to buy this camera and they were asking my help to get it to sort it out with RED. Then a few days later someone on set told them about this issue and now they are hesitant and don't want to invest in this camera right. They told me they'll wait a few months more until RED comes up with a solution.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Why you sending back if there is no official fix? sorry im just clueless trying to understand the reason.
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It's just not being used as much as my Mini LFs now. Also, the sensor issue has gotten around enough that commercial work is passing on it. I'm not saying all, I'm sure there's some and for owner op where you know how it happens under backlit situations, you just avoid it. It's not being well received by the DIT community and as much as DoP will examine as much as they can, the DITs are pixel peeping and don't want to deal with it.

Also, if it doesn't get sent in for this issue, I think they can close the case and mark it resolved. It's in everyone's best interest to send it in.

It'll be interesting if they fix it with Raptor Xtra Large Edition.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Now that more people are seeing it on important work, I feel like Red has to address this. Which I feel is sensor glass redesign and recall. I’m going to send mine in finally, but they’ve said there is no solution though it was said they were working on it. I feel like now is the time to be transparent. Also, the option is just sell it all and stick with Arri. I started on Red built all the way up to a Monstro for a while. I’m just disappointed with this reaction by Red. My take, you may not see it now but you’ll see it on something, just hope it’s not important if Red doesn’t offer a fix here immediately.
Click to expand...

The fact that they are allowing you to send the camera back to RED seems a promising sign. If this is remain unfixable I'm sure they are going to recall all Raptors back in and probably delay the XL release. Btw is the "Split" Raptor XD being used on any large scale feature film production? Cheers
 
Mattia Palombi said:
Btw is the "Split" Raptor XD being used on any large scale feature film production? Cheers
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Yes. Several filming right this second.

As I said earlier, this will land at the moment an issue for some and not for others. Unsure what the long term solution is for this, but it's not exactly stopping anybody from working as many know how to prevent (ideal) or avoid (not as ideal) this from occurring.
 
Mike P. said:
Really? Cause RED have a poor track-record of following-through, they just release new hardware often enough that it seems like they solve problems. Like I can think of far more issues they’ve ignored until the next camera release (sometimes completely) than ones they’ve fixed (not including promised functionality that wasn’t implemented at launch).

I dunno, if a bulletproof solution was as simple as flocking you’d think they would’ve given an update by now. In any case, hopefully it’s addressed soon, otherwise by the time they get a half-decent solution worked out, the XL will be launching.
Click to expand...

I mean, they kind of have to fix it, don't they?

Lets all be honest here.

They got Komodo 100% right. It's been embraced by the DP community in way no other RED camera has - everyone basically agrees it's really good, and its great value. I'm working on a huge project now, and all the best interviews are on 3 cameras - Mini LF, Venice, and Komodo. That little camera really holds it's own.

But this is an important moment for RED - the higher end of the market is more crowded with LF and Venice. And the middle is more crowded now with Canon and Sony.

RED really needs Raptor to work, because like Komodo, it's amazing value, and it's very well thought out. If they can fix this sensor issue, it will fill a unique niche.

So I kind of think they have to fix it.

They'll sell way more Raptors than they will XL's, anyway. That middle market is where the $$$ is.

I don't see RED not fighting for that.

Instead, I assume they are holding tight until they have a definitive solution, and then they'll roll it out. But until then, yes the silence sort of speaks for itself - they are obviously figuring this out.
 
Nick Morrison said:
snip: But until then, yes the silence sort of speaks for itself - they are obviously figuring this out.
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Not sure how silence indicates they are "obviously figuring this out." Do we have definite word from RED that they are working on a fix - or for that matter - whether they are sure it is "fixable".

Raptor is the only RED I am currently considering purchasing due to the price/performance but this issue is definitely holding me back - not that I couldn't probably "avoid" the issue but concerned more with how the reputation in the market will be.

I dropped my $1000 deposit on my REDONE SN206 within 24 hours of the announcement because I saw the potential and figured Jim would throw whatever $s it took to make it happen - and there was nothing remotely close to it on the market. Neither of those things are true anymore.

I haven't been particularly impressed with how RED has handled some things in the past few years - and in the post-Jannard era I'm also concerned with the financial viability of RED in the next few years - as well as their ability to compete technologically with the competition from Sony and Canon. The relative silence from RED over the past few years has done nothing to boost my confidence.

I started as a manufacturer in the video/motion picture industry in 1981 and I could name, off the top of my head, dozens of really innovative, well financed companies that made some great products that fell by the wayside because it is really hard to sustain unless you can develop a broader based product line. RED tried that with Hydrogen - which could have been a huge market if successful - but stumbled and it doesn't;t appear that there is much on the horizon.

What am I missing that would make me more optimistic?
 
Michael Hastings said:
Not sure how silence indicates they are "obviously figuring this out." Do we have definite word from RED that they are working on a fix - or for that matter - whether they are sure it is "fixable".

Raptor is the only RED I am currently considering purchasing due to the price/performance but this issue is definitely holding me back - not that I couldn't probably "avoid" the issue but concerned more with how the reputation in the market will be.

I dropped my $1000 deposit on my REDONE SN206 within 24 hours of the announcement because I saw the potential and figured Jim would throw whatever $s it took to make it happen - and there was nothing remotely close to it on the market. Neither of those things are true anymore.

I haven't been particularly impressed with how RED has handled some things in the past few years - and in the post-Jannard era I'm also concerned with the financial viability of RED in the next few years - as well as their ability to compete technologically with the competition from Sony and Canon. The relative silence from RED over the past few years has done nothing to boost my confidence.

I started as a manufacturer in the video/motion picture industry in 1981 and I could name, off the top of my head, dozens of really innovative, well financed companies that made some great products that fell by the wayside because it is really hard to sustain unless you can develop a broader based product line. RED tried that with Hydrogen - which could have been a huge market if successful - but stumbled and it doesn't;t appear that there is much on the horizon.

What am I missing that would make me more optimistic?
Click to expand...

You are not wrong in what you write. But Komodo gives me extreme confidence, it's almost perfect. And Raptor is great too - just needs the sensor fixed, and a better monitor. Don't forget, this is all happening in a pandemic.

I don't know - I have faith, but I'm also widely optimistic, and tend to always be that way (for better or worse).

I also think the only cameras better than Komodo and Raptor are LF and Venice, and those aren't affordable or practical for the kind of work I do.

So I root for RED, tbh.

And speaking of folding, an actual major player that did fold is Panasonic - they basically bailed on their cinema cameras altogether, which to your point is a reminder of how competitive this space is.
 
Nick Morrison said:
... But Komodo gives me extreme confidence, it's almost perfect…
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Komodo sure does seem to be wildly popular / successful…BUT…hasn’t RED said that they are making / selling them at a loss and there’s been talk of a price increase? If so, then I don’t think we can rest our hopes on the broad appeal of the Komodo giving RED the financial solvency necessary to not just stay competitive but also properly support existing cameras “out there” that MAY need a recall in order to fix issues.

I’m not saying any of this is absolute fact but just trying to think objectively about the future. I totally get being passionate about AND financially supporting companies I believe in whenever I can BUT all of this gear is, ultimately, an investment for my business. If at any point I can’t use it or trust it or sell it to clients…I have no choice but to reevaluate my choices.

Nick Morrison said:
...And Raptor is great too - just needs the sensor fixed, and a better monitor…
Click to expand...

I’m not sure that’s a ringing endorsement because that’s quite a chunk of the camera system, no? Add to that the lack of accessories / support to fully rig it out for the various needs different productions will have.

Nick Morrison said:
...Don't forget, this is all happening in a pandemic…
Click to expand...

As it is with everything these days unfortunately but I guess it makes you wonder how it could be cheaper to recall / repair / replace cameras versus waiting to get everything dialed in but maybe this was rushed out to market…for whatever reason.

Again, I’m not trying to be overly negative. Just thinking out loud as someone who has shelled out money for both Raptor and Komodo.
 
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