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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Who is RED?

Steven Swigart said:
prosumer/professional, semantics.

Please just release a camera... Preferably one that can compete with in the sub $10K market. The price of the camera does not determine how professional it is.
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Yup.

Professionals are people earning money with what they are doing.

On the other hand, companies like Hasselblad are well aware of the luxury value of the « professional » equipment they produce : they always earned more money with a certain class of rich amateurs than with their professional customers. And it is the professionals who profit : they can buy equipment which would be too expensive to produce without the rich amateurs to buy it and to participate in the development cost.

My bet is that the same will hold for RED, maybe holds already. Already now you see kids of rich parents planning their RED equipment.

But of course, JJ is right in saying what he says : after all, a rich amateur prefers to think that he is using professional equipment. That's added value!
Come on, « Prosumer » really sounds like « supermarket », yuck.

Meanwhile, pros work with the tools they have available, independent of their designation. There are many video professionals on this planet that are happy if they have a HV20 available for their work, no kidding.
 
Hi!

O.K. ..There some people thinking it's not a good movement... But I want mi S35 Scarlett with HDRx and professional ends... I can't buy an EPIC, but I can buy the second best cine digital camera of the market for a 1/15 of the price of an ARRI or Sony ones... RED allow me to buy my own Digital Cine Camera, the rise for HDRx is a present, it make 100K$ better camera just for 1 or 2K$.

I want to make pro movies, and thanks to RED Scarlett it's on my prize-range. They don't have to do it, The could had done only EPIC and go for the glory and renting companies, LIKE THE OTHERS PRO-BUILDERS.... If you have a 5.000$ price, you still have the PRO Scarlett 2/3, or the PRO Fixed ones for those whose can't afford for an optics... What's wrong with it? You want a camera, more powerfull than F35 and Alexa for the price of a Canon 50D?... You can't. I can't make Pirates of the caribean 5 with my low-spanish budget, but i can use the same technology with my budget... So that's great.

There're a lot of people complaining here... I just want to show IMHO and thanks RED for the job.

Sorry for my english!
 
Luis Melgar said:
But I want mi S35 Scarlett with HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™ and professional ends... I can't buy an EPIC, but I can buy the second best cine digital camera of the market for a 1/15 of the price of an ARRI or Sony ones... RED allow me to buy my own Digital Cine Camera, the rise for HDRx™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™ is a present, it make 100K$ better camera just for 1 or 2K$.
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Agreed 100%.

All this fuss is actually for just more $1,000.00...

The things are never B&W, this is the most common error we should always avoid. We must see it from its different angles. It serves the other way round too.

«The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.»

Niels Bohr (1885-1962)
Nobel Prize Physicist
and contributor for the atomic bomb au pair with Einstein
and pacifist
 
There has been talk of ditching the S35 Scarlet.

No way.

What I would ask RED is to make sure to get the S35 Scarlet out as fast as possible.

What I expect is an Epic, but instead of being optimized for performance and quality, it is instead optimized for price and manufacture. That's cool.

Just please make sure you can CRANK THEM OUT.

Ditto for all the accessories-- SSD modules, EVFs, monitors whatever else you guys are making... end wait times on these products.

Being able to call up and get a fast delivery for these things solves a professional need.

That's the biggest thing missing right now from RED the professional support environment. I can "sort of" solve this sort of thing myself on a production by carrying some spares- or even a full backup camera, but if I can't count on being able to get a part overnighted, its a problem.

The situation with the RED EVF and RED Drives was intolerable. Please don't let that happen.

So... make sure you guys can crank out the stuff you are making.
 
Not ranting, just observing

Not ranting, just observing

Luis Melgar said:
I want to make pro movies, and thanks to RED Scarlett it's on my prize-range.

...

There're a lot of people complaining here... I just want to show IMHO and thanks RED for the job.
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A lot of people might think like that. Many more people thought like that before but are not convinced that « Scarlet » will actually ever happen.

Scarlet S35 as indicated today would likely cannibalize the EPIC market (in short, customers originally intending to buy EPIC will buy Scarlet instead or if they planned to get two EPICs, they will order one EPIC and one Scarlet instead and so forth).

To avoid this, RED will have to carefully set up the feature set of Scarlet, in short, they will have to conceive a « firmware crippled EPIC » much like this is done by the traditional companies (Canon, Panasonic ...). If you think it through, there really is no other way, but this will not go too well with the image of RED.

To me, the two annoucements (adding HDRx™™ to Scarlet and definition of the customers) sound disturbing : this is not how it is going to happen eventually, it just does not make sens.

If I were RED, I would purely and simply drop Scarlet S35 (come on, you are inventive enough to explain this ... or is it that you have just started telling us so?) but maybe add HDRx™™ to Scarlet 2/3. Thus, they could propose a (fairly) low priced highly capable video camera that will be much desired but of course represent no alternative to either RED One or EPIC. This was the strategy before « DMSC » and that strategy was right.

Scarlet S35 is a marketing mistake and sounds like it was a mistake from the beginning and is even more so now : customers who might consider buying RED One today may be waiting for Scarlet S35, even more if it includes HDRx™™.
 
Pierre T. said:
Scarlet S35 is a marketing mistake and sounds like it was a mistake from the beginning and is even more so now : customers who might consider buying RED One today may be waiting for Scarlet S35, even more if it includes HDRx™™™™™.
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The point is 99% of people who are waiting for Scarlet S35 will be buying the newcomer Panasonic, for example, if Scarlet S35 wouldn't come up. They will NEVER buy the $28,000.00 Epic.

Scarlet 2/3" model, with or without the new feature, is in another ballpark, it does NOT replace the larger sensor (Scarlet) model at all.
 
Pierre T. said:
To avoid this, RED will have to carefully set up the feature set of Scarlet, in short, they will have to conceive a « firmware crippled EPIC » much like this is done by the traditional companies (Canon, Panasonic ...)
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This sentiment belies a complete misunderstanding of how difficult a technical challenge 5K RAW video is.

The best thing to do is realize that the RED cameras are actually high speed purpose built computers with a 5K S35 sensor attached as the primarly i/o interface.

The RED Epic is like a 16 core Xeon workstation with a workstation video card (i.e. Quadro or FireGL) and iSCSI/Fibre Channel RAID.

The RED Scarlet would, in this analogy, probably be a Core i7 Extreme with top tier gaming card and an eSATA RAID.

If all you are going to do is run Word, Excel and a Web Browser they'll both be more than fast enough.

Try to simulate liquid splashing in a hurricane and render it with raytracing, and you'll quickly see which is which.

Now try stuffing that computer power into a box the size of a DSLR.

EPIC is far more expensive because all that high speed capture and the stupendous data rate require a LOT more computing power.

If all you do is shoot 24fps footage on a soundstage day in day out you may have a hard time distinguishing the practical differences between Epic and Scarlet- indeed you may have wasted your money if you bought an Epic.

If your footage is highly technical, involves a lot of off speed photography or visual effects... or 3D, or extreme environments... Epic means you can work where Scarlet won't.

In addition to the pure computer power... there are practical issues.

I made a comparison above with commodity computer hardware. (Even Quadro/FireGL cards are commodity- Nvidia will make more of any given Quadro GPU model than RED is likely to make of all its camera models in the next ten years.)

RED is using all sorts of custom hardware. The processing requirements and operating tolerance of EPIC boards will be much higher than Scarlet. They'll be very much more expensive- and they will require better quality source materials and quality assurance procedures.

By comparison Scarlet's processing requirements are far easier to meet. RED can't do what Intel does though and simply mark slightly defective EPIC's as Scarlet- their volume is far too low to manage that.

Instead they have to actually specifically design a lower end board that is cheaper to manufacture- and in doing so they'll make a part that simply can't handle 250MB/s of i/o operations to a disk, and can't process, compress and encode a 5K frame 120 items a second.

So, Scarlet will actually be a different camera.
 
It baffles me how people can whine and complain about a camera company wanting to make their cameras better and then charge accordingly. If a couple thousand dollars breaks your budget you are in the wrong industry or not charging enough.
 
I love the fact that RED is going to produce the Scarlet with HDRx.
But I also believe that even if the Fixed Lens Scarlet was made without
HDRx, and only cost $995.00 it would still be a PROFESSIONAL CAMERA.
 
Martin Stevens said:
I love the fact that RED is going to produce the Scarlet with HDRx™.
But I also believe that even if the Fixed Lens Scarlet was made without
HDRx™, and only cost $995.00 it would still be a PROFESSIONAL CAMERA.
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And some people will still complaining about how expensive it was! :smilielol5:

Sorry, couldn't resist this one!:emote_hippie:
 
The AF100 will hurt Canon, JVC , even other Panasonic prosumer video camera lines more than anything else. Productions creating content for broadcast and theater may consider it based on it's limited palette for artistic reasons, but that's about it.
Is it me, or does a 4/3 chip outputting at best 8bit 4:2:2 (For a considerable price increase) sound sort of like getting a car with a V7 in it?

I too am disappointed at yet another delay, but how many would complain just as much if Red released a Scarlett based on existing tech, then a year later came out with an improved version, making the price even higher through upgrades?
The only roadblock for me is..
While I'm saving what I can, the current business climate makes it hard for a small business owner to get any sort of a loan. IBM, Microsoft, other big companies get all they need, but me? With good credit? Doesn't seem to be happening. So in many ways the delay is good for me, gives me more time to raise funds. In the meantime, I have stuff to shoot, so I'm investing in a D60, since it will still be a fine stills camera even after getting a Scarlett.
 
Jannard said:
It amazes me how much people read into this stuff. We'll tell you what's going on. You don't need to guess.

Jim
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But didn't you announce a few months ago that you weren't going to tell us what was going on anymore, until it was done?

You haven't really kept your word to keep quiet thankfully but I guess there is a bit of paranoia now that we have to divine RED's intentions from between the lines instead of just getting a semi-daily update. :D
 
Honestly, I think that even without specifically using the word "professional", the things that made people love and want to buy RED are the level of quality, that there are no "gotchyas" if you will - you don't have to worry about rolling shutter, poor quality video out, 8-bit recording, etc. Even before the word professional, we loved RED because you're making professional cameras. I, for one, am very glad to see RED embrace that and announce it. I'll be buying a 7D to get me through until Scarlet's release, but you can be sure that when the professional camera comes out, I'll be in line to pick one up. You just can't compete with what RED is offering. I can't wait to get my hands on Scarlet.
 
The eos guy has always struck me as being desperate for attention, insecure. He isn't so much interested in spreading news, he wants to BE the news. And there are a lot of "us Vs them" attitudes out there. People who would quite happily see an important piece of filmmaking technology fail, because it doesn't cater to or acknowledge their weak voices. The health of the Arts means nothing to them, and, consequently, they mean nothing to it.
 
I sure hope that cutting off a large number of potential customers makes a lot of business sense for RED, even if I don't see how. (It's also a bit of a mystery to me who the Scarlet is now aimed at, and how it will do anything else other than cannibalizing sales of EPIC.)

But in order to make high-end prosumers and low-end pros ecstatically happy, why not keep one single HDRx™-less fixed Scarlet model that would sell for not much more than $4,000? Would it really break the company?
 
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