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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zeiss Supreme Prime series

Michael Lindsay said:
.... should they have then gone cam? I don't know as I have no idea about about much that would have added to the cost...but I do know they are a much better helical system than UltraPrimes... And if they are as reliable as UPs then fantastic!
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Good question. Cam driven mechanics I believe is more expensive but I know of several lens lines and zooms that use cam focus mechanisms that are in the mid-lower cinema lens cost range. I think cam driven focus does need more servicing love than helical, at least that is my impression since I have to have cam followers replaced more than I'd like.


Michael Lindsay said:
Focus marks: What Leica acheived with Sumiliux-C is incredible but they are twice the cost and are still not FF... Interestingly Leica has produced 2 ranges of lenses since Sumiliux and have not attempted it again. As you note/implied I believe that Zeiss is just trying to hit size, weight and cost targets. A focus mapping LCS now costs less than 1/2 the price of one lens and works for everyhting. It is not as if Zeiss haven't been involved with Cam based focus scales so they can make it work.. but it seems not without a weight, cost or size penalty.
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I believe Zeiss has have had experience with cam but often choose against. Their experience comes with the MP's. Many zooms use cam focus, right, so perhaps the variable primes and some other zooms have cam tech, maybe. Not sure. Leica used cam tech to get all scales to match in rotation position from INF-5' i believe. That is unique. Cooke and many other companies use cam focus to just manipulate the scales of individual focal lengths, not match them together. Either way, I enjoy it if not using a smart wireless FF with remapping rings.

Michael Lindsay said:
I was initially bothered by the non linear iris but after thinking about it, and asking a few assistants, I really don't care... Hawke don't linearise their irises either so maybe it is not only a cost restriction?.. Hawke lenses are not exactly cheap. However I would defer to others on this as the few times recently I have done Iris pulls they where remote and I worked off a monitor/WFM for timing and exposure neither type would have made any difference to me
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I find it slightly less appealing but not a huge deal. Why? Because if you want a 4-5.6 split, if you put the witness mark exactly between the numbers on the scale, you are being in accurate. Because it's a collapsing scale, a 4-5.6 split would be near the middle but favoring the 5.6 side. Not a huge deal, but when you only have 1/3 marks, and even those disappear eventually, it turns into a guessing game for the AC, although getting very close isn't terribly hard so it's not a big issue. With a linear iris, if I want to set a 1/4 stop, 1/2 stop, etc.... I know EXACTLY where to dial in the lens. It's simply more accurate albeit just slightly. Again, we are talking about the difference between perfect and good.
 
Looks like he is just giving "blanket" responses to this guy's questions.

 
rand thompson said:
Looks like he is just giving "blanket" responses to this guy's questions.

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Yeah, it's definitely marketing mumbo jumbo. Someone needs to do a thorough test and say what's what. Are they cool, neutral or warm? Are they soft or sharp? How do they stack up compared to a MP/UP/Otus?
 
David J. Buchanan said:
Yeah, it's definitely marketing mumbo jumbo. Someone needs to do a thorough test and say what's what. Are they cool, neutral or warm? Are they soft or sharp? How do they stack up compared to a MP/UP/Otus?
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I suspect that poor guy found himself on camera desperately trying to remember things he had heard recently from other Zeiss guys... i suspect it isn't his main area of expertise or he hasn't had a lot of time to get up to speed.

If I was desperate to know more I'd nudge John Marchant and see if he wants to get specific about the lenses as I know he had a lot lot longer than me with them (and is technical enough to coherently make sense of what he thinks...) from my limited time (and I did quickly put up against a couple of ultras and masters)... I'd say they where neutral 'zeiss' lenses that are a tiny bit more relaxed than is traditional for Zeiss... the focus follow off design goal's success is so difficult to measure and I'd need more time with them to be sure of what I think I saw...
 
If you are looking for some expanded thoughts, I did key stroking around Cine Gear about these:
33909275_2102857513305292_1034326780275589120_n.jpg


Zeiss Supreme Primes: Expanded Thoughts - now that these have properly been introduced I'm getting a fair bit of questions about the ZSPs at and after Cine Gear 2018. I've had my hands on them about half a dozen times now, here's a quick breakdown on what they are and can do. First these are high speed primes designed for larger Full Frame 35mm and VistaVision formats with focal lengths from 15-200mm being produced. Most are T1.5 (18,21,25,29,35,50,65,85,100,135), the 15 and 150 are T1.8 and the 200 T2.1. These are designed from the ground up to be lightweight and compact producing and accurate image with a bit of character which you will notice in the flares and draw. They feature a compact 16 blade circular nonlinear iris as the emphasis was on the bokeh and overall image quality rather than linear less-bladed design. To cut down on size and weight they feature a new smooth square threaded helical focus movement. All but one of the focal lengths feature floating elements to produce minimal breathing during focus pulls. Each also has electronic XD connections for lens metadata, useful for VFX in particular. Each has 95mm fronts ahead of the wider lens body with enclosed focus scales. These match optically and practically with Zeiss' trio of T2.9 Cinema Zooms, 15-30, 28-80, and 70-200mm for a full production workflow solution. 5 lenses are shipping now with the 100 at the end of the year likely followed by the 65. It's an interesting take marrying some old and new concepts into modern larger format glass. Clearly you can see some of the influence from their most recent premium design efforts all being applied here with dashes if influence from the Ultra and Master Primes.
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To answer a few of things I've seen pop up. They are certainly a more neutral rendering. Smoother draw, not ruthlessly sharp or anything. Very shootable wide open as with many of the modern larger format speed primes. Saw some notes about the linear iris, or lack there of. There was some discussion regarding this last year, but Zeiss went the way of more blades for a consistent round bokeh with 16 blades. To keep things with a higher blade count and in a compact size, they went with the nonlinear approach. Side note, the prototypes I saw in December featured a 14 blade iris and they have increased the count to 16 now.

I've had my hands on them a few times, but I'll be spending more time with them shortly as well. They do have a neat flare to them.

This set is already in motion for completion over the next 1.5 years, but they are considering a couple other focal lengths in there too.
 
DIRECTOR
Jeannie Roshar

CINEMATOGRAPHER
Laura Merians

SHOT ON
ZEISS Supreme Primes and ARRI Alexa LF



 
My first impression isn't what I thought it'd be. These lenses and this sensor aren't ideal for this space, imo. Everything looks great, the lenses are sharp and
the Alexa image is great, of course. It just feels like depth for depth's sake to me.

Thank you for posting this. I own a Monstro and see similar images with it, but no spots like this so far. This LF thing finally just clicked in my head.

Super 35 wil still be the first option for these types of shoots, imo.
 
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