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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Who is RED?

This thread is a classic example of why a true democracy doesn't work, and why the USA chose not to go that route.

Jim, thank you. Like the decision and those of us who made the decision long ago to support RED are in agreement. Would rather to have pro tools than gussied up DSLR's and that doesn't mean that they're always outrageously expensive as you have proven. They cost what they cost and it's good to know the company is focused on that mission. Press on.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
As I have mentioned earlier. I tend to agree. The 3k for 3k was a cool idea.

BUT I also happen to work in productions where REDs efforts to please the lower-end/indie market have ultimately had a counterproductive result as to reputation. Which is not good.

This move allows for much more focused products and less confusion.

That is ONLY good.

And the "cheapo" Scarlet is pitted pretty much at anything but the Epic.

Which is sweet and rude.

Think about that for a sec. Look at that motion.

Which cam do you think will set the standard for indie productions?
It's still wayyyy cheaper on a dollar-for-dollar rate than the PD 150/DVX-100/HVX-200 was when released.

Rejoice!
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Red wants to make a clear statement: our products are professional, meaning realiable, up-to-date technology that is worth of being considered for professional productions. (which is a tinsy bit ironic because of the hype about shows like "House" testing the 5D)
That is ok.
I still think that the Fixed Scarlet could have worked in that area without HDRx™. I mean, until a few weeks ago, nobody was really talking about HDRx™ and suddenly it is totally, 100% not to be missed. Well, I disagree.

RED emphazises that they love choices but now killed one. And that is why people are disappointed.
Might I be able to afford 1000$ more? I might. Might I additionally need the SSD module to utilise all of the technology for what I just paid 1000$ more. Probably. So we are somewhere near 8000$. That is not choices. That is then necessities. And it is different from 5000$ ready-to-shoot-out-of-the-box. Some people say I'm ungreatful because I want everything "to cost 50c". Well, think about who made me think that this dream was possible.
 
Thank you!

I never liked investing into a camera system that competes with the 7D!

Keep up the Pro attitude, Make Waves!
 
Mark Phelan said:
This thread is a classic example of why a true democracy doesn't work, and why the USA chose not to go that route.

.
Click to expand...
In a way, democracy worked here. The majority want the HDRx™ to be added.

But I think everyone agrees that denocracy doesn't belong in business.
 
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Jim,

I'm not sure how to interpret your statement...maybe because my english is not that good...

...personnally, never thought that it had the slightest "prosumer" tag.

I hope you will keep your initial concept intact though:

Modularity and flexibility (different lense mounts etc...)

BUT if your statement is about not going into prosumer market IN THE FUTURE, then i think it is a good decision. Can't be everywhere, do everything, and win everything.

For me the RED ONE, from its beginning, is a CINEMA CAMERA, and a @#@#@ Pro one :)

Cheers

Antoine


EDIT: OK! got it......that was my poor english reading :) sorry :)
 
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Jannard said:
We recently came to the conclusion that, indeed, we cater to the professional market. That's it. A pro camera company. We want to build the best tools possible for those that want to "man up". There are plenty of companies dedicated to selling prosumer (short for "almost right") cameras. We aren't going to be one of them.

If you want a serious tool to use for professional projects... think RED. No more "soccer mom" thinking. Pros only. Life is short and the clock is ticking. We have decided who we are.

Jim
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This is the Hedgehog Concept in Good To Great. Bravo Jim!

Phil
 
we are such a funny lot here.. all of us getting exited about specifications, rumors, the odd render or photo... and we compare Scarlet with other existing cameras as if it is physically here, in our hands... as if it really exists.
 
Carmel Bruno said:
we are such a funny lot here.. all of us getting exited about specifications, rumors, the odd render or photo... and we compare Scarlet with other existing cameras as if it is physically here, in our hands... as if it really exists.
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Agree. That IS funny.
The reason being that many of us have done that with RED once before, without being disappointed.

Now we have our R1's for a while, and we see what these comparisons promise for.

But I agree.

It is a bit absurd.

If it wasn't for the historical merit of RED in this kind of context.
 
Jannard said:
If you want a serious tool to use for professional projects... think RED.
Jim
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RED has always been my most absolute FAVORITE Color.. now you are just taking it to an all new LEVEL.. RED is al I'm thinking this Days, and one the new Shop in Italy is set up, you will really see how much RED I have been thinking..:coolgleamA:

A new Shop entirely set up around a RED workflow, of PRO camera and gear Systems, to produce the highest image quality for both Motion Pictures and Still Photography work, to impress and amaze the eye and the Hearth!!
 
Jannard said:
If you want a serious tool to use for professional projects... think RED. No more "soccer mom" thinking. Pros only. Life is short and the clock is ticking. We have decided who we are.

Jim
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Folks who think RED runs on a traditional business model don't get it.

"Life is short and the clock is ticking," is the key statement here. Jim's dream is to unlock the artistic potential of digital cinema and bring that tool to ... who? That's the decision that's been in the making for years and that's the decision that has now been definitively made.

The soccer mom idea came from a more traditional business model where that volume of sales would support the rest of the operation. It was doomed to failure because the core technology of RED depends on RAW. Wanna have some fun? Walk up to a real-life camera-toting daughter-doting soccer mom and ask her if she shoots RAW. You're likely to get a slap in the face from her, a punch in the mouth from her husband, and a kick in the groin from her kid.

So Jim decided to be generous and make a camera for the prosumer masses - the DVXUser crowd. That includes me, by the way. A very mixed bunch, including a lot of impatient, quick to judge and non-discerning folks of all levels of technical sophistication, incomes, careers, and avocations.

As the low-end Scarlet 2/3 has taken shape in this strange and public way, a lot of feedback from this customer base has been expressed. Not only here, but on ScarletUser and DVXuser. I think the vitriol may have reached a new low in a post on DVXuser and reposted on ScarletUser that took a number of quotes from Jim out of context and used them to back up a conspiracy price-rigging theory.

"Life is short..." Jim doesn't need to do any of this RED stuff for financial reasons. Jim also can choose his friends and customer base. Sure, he's not doing this to lose money, but he's not doing it to maximize profit either.

Jim obviously enjoys dealing with most of the RedUser folks--even if he does get testy at times. Pros who are serious about their work and tools are who he wants to deal with.

I used to enjoy teaching high school freshman science classes. Getting a group of unruly kids to appreciate science and build a skill set to do science was rewarding, fun, and worth all the required dedication. I'm not there any more. Life is short. There are other things I want to do, and my energy is limited.

So if you're ready to call yourself a pro and treat your toolmaker in a professional manner - that's who I think RED is looking for.
 
I always thought the worst thing RED could have done is cater to the kids and soccer mom's out there. I remember specifically writing about what an unforgiving business that would turn into and that's not what the most of us thought RED was and not what "we" wanted you to be. Honestly, it really turned me off of the company and especially this forum because of all the mess it made.
Not sure why it took so long to realize but glad to see that you did in fact come to that conclusion for the sake of your reputation and peace of mind!
 
I have always said Red is not for cupcakes or sissies. I approve of this move, Jim. Keep your eyes on the prize.
 
Jannard said:
We didn't exactly know for sure. But we are slowly figuring it out.

The concept of RED was to build a camera with as much capability as possible... for the professional market. Then we thought we could extend it down a bit to the prosumer level. Apparently, that was a mistake.

We recently came to the conclusion that, indeed, we cater to the professional market. That's it. A pro camera company. We want to build the best tools possible for those that want to "man up". There are plenty of companies dedicated to selling prosumer (short for "almost right") cameras. We aren't going to be one of them.

If you want a serious tool to use for professional projects... think RED. No more "soccer mom" thinking. Pros only. Life is short and the clock is ticking. We have decided who we are.

Jim
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This is my favorite post in a while... made my day. :)
 
Man up.

I'ts about not 2nd guessing yourself.
It's about going with your gut, and trusting it.
It's about starting something and then saying "This is finished" and moving on.

It's about leaving a trail of work behind you instead of dreams out front.

Man up, the clock is ticking.

:)
 
I see a lot of references to DVXUser in this thread... hopefully as one of the mods at DVXuser, I can offer some perspective...

Frankly, I think this post by Jim is the best thing I've ever seen him write, as far as Red is concerned. I believe that discovering one's true identity, and deciding once and for all who you are, what you stand for, and what you will not stand for, is the most empowering thing someone can do. And if I was the Sony F35 team or the Arri Alexa team, I might just be saying "uh-oh..." right about now.

I haven't understood Red since the original Scarlet announcement. What I saw seemed like ... I mean, they were talking about a line of 4k monitors and 4k projectors and 4k delivery systems and 4K in the home and soccer moms and Red cameras sold at Best Buy... it all seemed -- dare I say it -- "flailing around." Even, perhaps, unwise. The #1 cause of failure of businesses is growing too quickly.

I've said for a long time now, that the low-pricetag customer is not a customer Red should be pursuing. Canon, Panasonic, and Sony have got that sewn up. Getting into the trenches for a dogfight with those folks, trying to compete on price, is a fight Red just wasn't going to win. But Red invented a niche in the middle that proved to be extremely popular, and even the high end moved into that niche, expanding that niche hugely. Go with it. Run with it. Strike while the iron is hot, and shoot while the ducks are flying. Maximize what you've got and build it into the best it can be.

Will the hobbyists, the guerillas, and the no-budget/micro-budget indies (the DVXUsers) be disappointed? Of course. Will they feel abandoned? Of course. Will they feel slighted? Of course. Will they feel insulted at the implication that they have to "man up" with their wallets? Definitely. They will feel like they're being told that if they don't have the dollars, they're not professional and their work isn't as valuable. But I humbly submit that it is simply unrealistic to expect Red to compete in the trenches on the low end with Canon, Sony, and Panasonic. That's a different business entirely. Shooters will have to do what they've always done: use what you can afford, and do the best you can with it. Multiple films have been nominated for Academy Awards, that were shot on standard-def DVX100's. If there's anything you have to do to "man up", it's to quit waiting for the valhalla-camera and just man up and grab what's out there today and go shoot your masterpiece. If there's a dividing line between who's a professional and who isn't... professionals "DO." Amateurs talk about it, wait for something better, and daydream. Professionals just get out there and get it done. And because they're the ones who are doing, they're the ones who appreciate the professional gear all the more.

As far as Red is concerned -- this clarification and focus is the most encouraging thing I've heard since the original Red One started shipping. If Red was public and people could buy stock -- this announcement makes me want to buy in.
 
When Jesus finished telling these stories, he left there, returned to his hometown, and gave a lecture in the meetinghouse. He made a real hit, impressing everyone. "We had no idea he was this good!" they said. "How did he get so wise, get such ability?" But in the next breath they were cutting him down: "We've known him since he was a kid; he's the carpenter's son. We know his mother, Mary. We know his brothers James and Joseph, Simon and Judas. All his sisters live here. Who does he think he is?" They got their noses all out of joint.

"A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house."
 
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