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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

When it's announced...

Yeah I'd say about 90% of my shooting is sports as well, so that high FPS is what Im gunning for.

I'd love to have a Scarlet but its just not coming soon enough or lately at a price I can afford... If Canon can solve the line skipping and clean up the aliasing and moire for a decent price, then I'm with them.

I'd rarely finish in anything higher then 1080 so the 3k is not essential and the RAW, though nice, is also not essential for me because most of my videos will be on the web anyways.

So as I see it, the only think keeping me here is the hope that the Scarlet COULD be around $6-8k. But even that hope is fading fast....
 
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It's looking like Sony, Canon, and Nikon all will be holding press events in August; it's then that were likely to get our first look at the next gen of DSLRs. Soon - very soon - we're going to have a much clearer picture of the options available to all of us. However, I would be very surprised if they come out with something that rivals Scarlet in specs.
 
Sorry guys, but let's not turn this thread into a DSLR forum...I'd like to keep it referencing Scarlet and Motion Picture cameras rather than web cameras

And for those mentioning a 6 month to a year time frame for release... I take it you haven't met Felix yet? :coolgleamA:
 
ryanpostas said:
And for those mentioning a 6 month to a year time frame for release... I take it you haven't met Felix yet? :coolgleamA:
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If you are referring to the lion video shot on scarlet, that was released 8 months ago. And yet it seems we are no closer to Scarlet. I'd say we are possibly even further away after the tsunami. But it's hard to tell with no new updates.
 
Right, so imagine how far they probably have come since then. The last update given about a month ago, was that Epic-x was going to start shipping the end of this month, and that Scarlet would quickly follow. I'm guessing November at the latest for Scarlet.
 
ryanpostas said:
I'd like to keep it referencing Scarlet and Motion Picture cameras rather than web cameras
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That old chestnut. Great way to stir a thread. With the specs that are referenced (which are just a rumor), I would say that it would be a motion picture camera, wouldn't you?

As Tim has said, it's been a long time since Felix, since then we haven't been given much else to talk about. What would you suggest we discuss?

Even RED themselves openly admit that they don't fare too well at sticking to deadlines, so I wouldn't bank on getting your Epic-X at the beginning of September and then ordering you Scarlet by the end of September.
 
ryanpostas said:
Sorry guys, but let's not turn this thread into a DSLR forum...I'd like to keep it referencing Scarlet and Motion Picture cameras rather than web cameras
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I agree with Richard; discussing DSLRs is totally acceptable. Remember, the title of this thread is: "When it's announced...". What we're saying is: when it's announced... there very well may be other options available. If the video capabilities of these cameras keep expanding and improving, they will be bona fide motion picture cameras.

As of right now, I will agree with you that they're not. The limitations are just too great for me to want to rely on one to shoot a feature. I also think the rumored specs that are being tossed around are pretty dubious. They sound more like a DSMC wish-list than an update for an existing camera line. Scarlet on the other hand is a motion picture camera first and foremost. It has advantages over existing DSLR's that go beyond just 3K, 120fps.

When it's announced... it's my bet that Scarlet will still have better specs (for video anyway), and that the benefit of its better capabilities will be worth a slightly higher cost. I would bet it's going to be late this year, or early next. I'll bet we'll have some advanced notice that it's coming. But in the meantime, you can't blame people for assessing their needs as film makers, and doing a cost-benefit-analysis on the technology that's available.
 
Nathaniel Haban said:
I agree with Richard; discussing DSLRs is totally acceptable. Remember, the title of this thread is: "When it's announced...". What we're saying is: when it's announced... there very well may be other options available. If the video capabilities of these cameras keep expanding and improving, they will be bona fide motion picture cameras.

As of right now, I will agree with you that they're not. The limitations are just too great for me to want to rely on one to shoot a feature. I also think the rumored specs that are being tossed around are pretty dubious. They sound more like a DSMC wish-list than an update for an existing camera line. Scarlet on the other hand is a motion picture camera first and foremost. It has advantages over existing DSLR's that go beyond just 3K, 120fps.

When it's announced... it's my bet that Scarlet will still have better specs (for video anyway), and that the benefit of its better capabilities will be worth a slightly higher cost. I would bet it's going to be late this year, or early next. I'll bet we'll have some advanced notice that it's coming. But in the meantime, you can't blame people for assessing their needs as film makers, and doing a cost-benefit-analysis on the technology that's available.
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I agree entirely. I think its ok that they're discussed, especially if they're keeping the market competitive. I'll probably still own a DSLR if I get a Scarlet, but If I were to get one camera it would be the Scarlet Fixed in one package for what I can afford. Unfortunately I'm tired of rely on my DSLR to get me through shoots and have to go through all these work-arounds to make sure I can put the video out there. The timing on the Scarlet is just a tough situation for shooters everywhere that have been waiting for it. I know multiple people recently who have had to cave in and spend there 5-10 thousand they were saving up for the Scarlet on other cameras to keep up. Which is sad to see, since now they may not get to shoot on such a great camera.

I hope other companies can stay competitive, it'll keep motivating RED to push there cameras farther and give us better cameras to shoot with!
 
Scarlet should come out on 11.11.11 so it can be hand delivered by ET's : ) That would be a monumental release.
 
ryanpostas said:
Sorry guys, but let's not turn this thread into a DSLR forum...I'd like to keep it referencing Scarlet and Motion Picture cameras rather than web cameras

And for those mentioning a 6 month to a year time frame for release... I take it you haven't met Felix yet? :coolgleamA:
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You must have missed the 5D House finale before Felix ate his chicken leg on a stick.

:devil:
 
Ryan Farnes said:
You must have missed the 5D House finale before Felix ate his chicken leg on a stick.

:devil:
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No, that's actually the only episode of House that I've ever seen specifically for that reason. I've used DSLR's - a lot. I believe they have their purpose, but I'm not looking forward to hearing more information about them now that I'm going to be purchasing a Scarlet.
 
How many years now asking this question? Wow when, when, when. Amazing. This is surreal. Years and years have gone by waiting for THE ANNOUNCEMENT. Just keep waiting patiently. Hopefully it will show up before we all grow old and senile.
 
The thing I think RED knows that the game is changing very fast. They have to adjust and release the cameras more quickly. The DSLR takes a lot of market. now with all the new generation coming around XMAS. the new 5d mark3 etc.. I think we will see some great great camera. Like RAW( hope so), 120fps etc.. Red can't wait and wait while others company are moving fast to release cameras. RED are soo great but yeah they need to stop waiting and just release before another company create something similar for way cheaper. For my feature film I'll go RED tho.
 
I really can't believe that RED would feel intimidated by any other camera manufacturer at this point. They make true raw digital motion picture cameras and for the professional segment - not for the consumer or pro-sumer segment. If some people can't wait for the SCARLET and decides to get a DSLR instead - then I have to assume that those people didn't really need a professional camera in the first place, or just doesn't realize what they get with a SCARLET. RED doesn't have to put this camera out before Canon, Sony or whatever releases some of their new cameras since they are not competing with those camera manufactures. RED knows and have expressed that - like the rest of their cameras - the SCARLET cameras are for professionals. We can all agree that "Professionals" are a somewhat niche market. By "somewhat", I mean that the market is potentially big, because the SCARLET is a very affordable professional motion picture camera. RED knows this - if they "lose" some potential costumers along the way due to DSLR's - that wouldn't mean anything for them, because they still have a lot of professionals or people who are ready to take the next step and buy the SCARLET.

Personally if I was RED, I'd be more comfortable knowing that I just sold one of my RED cameras to a pro - and not someone who really don't understand the (production)value or can't appreciate the awesome potential of this camera!

I'll be ready when the SCARLET gets released - even if that means another year of wait!
 
ryanpostas said:
No, that's actually the only episode of House that I've ever seen specifically for that reason. I've used DSLR's - a lot. I believe they have their purpose, but I'm not looking forward to hearing more information about them now that I'm going to be purchasing a Scarlet.
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Yeah, self loathing sucks.

Hehe. Just giving some push back for calling them "web cameras." This is a camera forum...for a camera not yet released...rather, um, conspicuously for 2 years now. Discussing it in a vacuum isn't going to happen.

EDIT: But obviously, we agree that we want the best possible image. That is why we're here waiting.
 
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Nuka Wølk said:
I really can't believe that RED would feel intimidated by any other camera manufacturer at this point. They make true raw digital motion picture cameras and for the professional segment - not for the consumer or pro-sumer segment. If some people can't wait for the SCARLET and decides to get a DSLR instead - then I have to assume that those people didn't really need a professional camera in the first place, or just doesn't realize what they get with a SCARLET. RED doesn't have to put this camera out before Canon, Sony or whatever releases some of their new cameras since they are not competing with those camera manufactures. RED knows and have expressed that - like the rest of their cameras - the SCARLET cameras are for professionals. We can all agree that "Professionals" are a somewhat niche market. By "somewhat", I mean that the market is potentially big, because the SCARLET is a very affordable professional motion picture camera. RED knows this - if they "lose" some potential costumers along the way due to DSLR's - that wouldn't mean anything for them, because they still have a lot of professionals or people who are ready to take the next step and buy the SCARLET.

Personally if I was RED, I'd be more comfortable knowing that I just sold one of my RED cameras to a pro - and not someone who really don't understand the (production)value or can't appreciate the awesome potential of this camera!

I'll be ready when the SCARLET gets released - even if that means another year of wait!
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I believe the definition of "professional" has changed, and you have not kept up with the times.

"Professionals" use whatever tool works.

Captain America, which made number one at the box office, had some scenes shot with a Canon 5d Mark II.

How do you get more "professional" than a number one motion picture in America?

Would they have used a Scarlet for those shots if it was available? Possibly.

Will they use a Canon 5d Mark 3 for the next one, or a Scarlet? Well, obviously it won't be a Scarlet if it's not released yet. Will the director shooting with the 5d Mark 3 decide to stick with that, or dump it and get a Scarlet? I don't know, maybe.

I think losing market share means something to every company, even Red.

I'm looking forward to the release of Scarlet. I think it's going to be a great camera from a great company. I just don't think you can discount all the competition and say, well this is "professional" that's not, so it's not a factor.

If they get used on major motion pictures that are number one at the box office, I think it's competition and shouldn't be discounted out of hand.

I'd also disagree with "I'd be happy knowing I sold a scarlet to a pro".

Red is a company, and they have to make a profit. I am quite confident that Red will be happy with a sale of Scarlet, no matter who's hands it ends up in. Won't matter to them if it's a soccer mom with more money than brains, or Peter Jackson. At that point, when Scarlet is released and in mass production, a sale will be a sale, and the more the better.
 
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Eric Rodemann said:
I believe the definition of "professional" has changed, and you have not kept up with the times.

"Professionals" use whatever tool works.

Captain America, which made number one at the box office, had some scenes shot with a Canon 5d Mark II.

How do you get more "professional" than a number one motion picture in America?

Would they have used a Scarlet for those shots if it was available? Possibly.

Will they use a Canon 5d Mark 3 for the next one, or a Scarlet? Well, obviously it won't be a Scarlet if it's not released yet. Will the director shooting with the 5d Mark 3 decide to stick with that, or dump it and get a Scarlet? I don't know, maybe.

I think losing market share means something to every company, even Red.

I'm looking forward to the release of Scarlet. I think it's going to be a great camera from a great company. I just don't think you can discount all the competition and say, well this is "professional" that's not, so it's not a factor.

If they get used on major motion pictures that are number one at the box office, I think it's competition and shouldn't be discounted out of hand.

I'd also disagree with "I'd be happy knowing I sold a scarlet to a pro".

Red is a company, and they have to make a profit. I am quite confident that Red will be happy with a sale of Scarlet, no matter who's hands it ends up in. Won't matter to them if it's a soccer mom with more money than brains, or Peter Jackson. At that point, when Scarlet is released and in mass production, a sale will be a sale, and the more the better.
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I agree with this 100%. The word "Pro" is so hard to distinguish. You can say the same for a 7D and 5D in Black Swan. I'm not sure I'd consider myself a Pro just because I work on real productions and real movies, but I know we use Super 16mm and integrate 7D and 5D footage in some of the projects we put out. And while I'm only on contract with the company for periods of time I can tell you that they'd consider the camera ready to go and shoot at the time they needed it. They're not going to say, Oh lets hold off production of our next movie, or project because we want a "Pro" camera, the Scarlet is the only "Pro" camera in that category, so we can't start work until then.

They're going to go get the camera that is available at the time being to push through and get the project done. Red having delays isn't doing themselves any favors in the market. We know they want there camera's in "Pro's" hands but like stated above they'd love to have there camera sell to anyone who wants to shoot. Especially if they're willing to shell out 6-10 thousand for it. I know I have until October/November to really make a decision on my camera purchase. I'm really hoping for the Scarlet otherwise I'll probably have to look elsewhere, it will suck I won't get the 3K and other advantages of a RED camera, because that is what I really want, but I will end up buying the camera that will allow me to get the job done and delivered. I feel the same could be said for many production houses who don't want to spend close to $60,000 on one camera, even if it is heads and heels above the others.

I'm not saying it isn't a PRO camera, I just really hate the way the word is used and tossed about.
 
ryanpostas said:
Right, so imagine how far they probably have come since then. The last update given about a month ago, was that Epic-x was going to start shipping the end of this month, and that Scarlet would quickly follow. I'm guessing November at the latest for Scarlet.
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I guess we'll have a better idea later this month when EPIC-X production starts and how fast those start to ship to Stage 2 customers.

Jarred mentioned in another posting about the Cannon Mount being available about 2 weeks after the EPIC-X starts to ship. http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?61779-Laforet-EPIC-Canon-Mount-600mm/page12

So given that they don't have a small warehouse at Forrest Lake where the EPIC is being built, the production is no small thing. They could accommodate a nice size production line. And there was another post where Jarred said that they could build an EPIC-M in less than 5 minutes. So without having any clue on production line times, (which I would assume be quicker than hand assembled) lets stick to the 5 minutes to build a EPIC-X.

1 EPIC-X = 5 minutes
12 EPIC-X = 1 hour
144 EPIC-X = 12 hour day
4320 EPIC-X = 30 day month
Stage 2 & 3 complete by beginning of November???
Stage 4 = November???

And for everything else, there's Mastercard!!!! :-)

Speculation, but a healthy one at that...

Heh...heh...heh...
 
ERIC and Jeffrey you are totally right. The word Pro is totally changed. A sale is a sale. They are losing market and the other companies knows that they need to move quick. If the new canon is a RAW real true 1080p with 120fps. I thnk that will hurt them. I'm pushing for the scarlet interchangeable of course and i hope it will get release soon. meanwhile, Other company are there moving forward.
 
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