Whats the future of working with R3D files? What will happen with Red Rocket?

[Chris Elkerton]

Just want to know peoples thoughts on this.
With the announcement of the new Mac Pro and its claims of being a 4K monster will the Red Rocket cards become redundant? Don't get me wrong the Rocket is an awesome product and Red needed to create it as they were so far ahead of the curve. It seems now though, the new breed of machines will be better equipped to deal with R3D's and perhaps the need for a super expensive Rocket card may no longer exist.
I for one would love to put one in my existing Mac Pro and breathe a bit of life back into it, I just can't really justify the cost. Will we see a huge price drop in the new future, in both new and used prices as technology inevitably moves forward?

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

I'm not sure how anyone can say for a fact that this new MacPro will be a "4K eater" just based on specs alone. In my opinion, Rocket will always have a place to help transcoding and view R3D files in real time, especially now with Dragon 6K and the introduction of Rocket-X, which won't fit this new MacPro.

I was actually happy to see RED/HP collaborating and creating a true monster in the Z820 RED Edition (http://www.promax.com/s-172-z820-red-tech-specs.aspx). Compare THESE beasts with the new Mac Pro when it comes out. I would like this collaboration to continue and expand to include the new Rocket-X card in future models.

 

[Chris Elkerton]

Yes I agree Marcos, we will have to wait and see how good the new Mac Pro is as far as 4K playback goes lets see if they back up the claims. They may well have shot them selves in the foot with cards like the Rocket not fitting in the new system, especially when they are banging on about "expandability"

As far as the RED/HP colab goes, interesting....What a machine that will be! Put OSX on it and I'm in.

 

[Tim Morten]

Mac Pro is a bad joke; classic Apple proprietary bullshit. The only reason to buy one is if you love the Apple logo so much, you don't care about expandability. Want the fastest GPU? SOL. Want a Rocket-X? SOL. Want any other new peripheral that requires full bus throughput? SOL. Even if it DID live up to its marketing as a 4k eater (which I highly doubt), 6k is almost here (not to mention 8k surely around the corner).

 

[Joe Kleber]

I hope this doesn't turn into another apple fanboy vs hater thread.

The NEED for a rocket card has always been and will always be subjective. ...as are the merits of the new Mac Pro design.

Here is a FACT. Regardless of how well the new Mac Pro handles RED footage, you are always going to get a faster debayer process with a REDROCKET attached. ...EVEN IF said REDROCKET is choked by Thunderbolt.

Some are claiming that you will be able to "stack" or "multiplex" multiple TB ports together on the new Mac Pro. IF this is true, then you can bet that the new Mac Pro with a REDROCKET attached will be a very powerful combination. IF it's NOT true, your system will STILL be faster if you use a REDROCKET.

You may decide that the new Mac Pro (combined with REDCINE-X making using of open CL) will be all the power you need. ...but having a REDROCKET attached is always going to be the more powerful system.

...and yes, having to attach cards with an external housing will be annoying to some. But it is what it is.

 

[M Most]

I'm not sure how anyone can say for a fact that this new MacPro will be a "4K eater" just based on specs alone. In my opinion, Rocket will always have a place to help transcoding and view R3D files in real time, especially now with Dragon 6K and the introduction of Rocket-X, which won't fit this new MacPro.
.

Never say "never". And never say "always."

 

[Eric Santiago]

I hope this doesn't turn into another apple fanboy vs hater thread. .

Haha just ignore.

There is always the one guy

 

[Chris Elkerton]

I hope this doesn't turn into another apple fanboy vs hater thread.

The NEED for a rocket card has always been and will always be subjective. ...as are the merits of the new Mac Pro design.

Agreed. It was never my intention for this to be a fan boy thread. Just to discuss the best bang for buck editing systems of the future, and would money be better invested in a new system rather than with an expensive card. Would this achieve similar results in performance? etc.
I realize now how naive a question this was, there is no right or wrong answer as we all have different budgets and requirements, different opinions and standing points. I can see any system will be better with a Rocket. I can also see a day when we won't need to worry about 4k playback as systems will improve and by then we will all want 6k, 8k etc. Lets see what the future holds.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Rock it mobile

Rock it mobile

Joe nailed it.

FWIW, a RocketX in a TB2 compliant external box sure appeals to me.

Not sure why people are so annoyed about the back breaking chore of plugging in a wall wart and a Thunderbolt cable or two. (yes, that's sarcasm)

Am I the only one excited about a highly portable RocketX solution I could employ in a variety of circumstances and, even, hold on to your skivvies, rent out with a reasonable expectation it would come back to me in good working order?

In my world, I see faster machines like the MacPro cylinder and Haswell based Win/Lin boxes as great options for R3Ds and UHD/4K projects sans Rocket. Yes, if I'm trying to transcode on set quickly or have tons of raw material to manage I'll want a Rocket on hand, otherwise it shouldn't be that hard to live without it. Of course, until the next gen hardware is in our hands that's speculation.

I also want to point out that I believe transcoding based workflows will go the way of corded telephones that only make voice calls. Yes, I am aware that some of the most talented editors in the biz are telling terrific stories running AVID on outdated hardware (they, in fact, need "light" media). IMO the spurious correlation is that the quality of the finished product validates the viability of the tools used.

Cheers - #19

 

[paul engstrom]

I'm with you Blair. We see lots of upsides to Apple's new system. Size is a big deal. Ironically, a separate enclosure for the fragile Rocket is actually a good thing (how many of those cards have gone bad being swapped in and out of the tower??? W/ T2 enclosure jut move the enclosed/safer Rocket between systems).

And I agree -- I don't see transcoding as big an issue with the upcoming horsepower, developments in some of the editing software, etc.

Also, I don't see 6k being used as much as people think. I think 5k will be WAY more common (due to the glass).

 

[Paul Harb]

I dont know anyone that had smaller size on the top of their wants list for a new Mac Pro.

As badly as I wanna like this new machine, its a problem for anyone that works on a set and needs locking connectors and industrial design and form factor for the computer itself. When I picture in my mind being on set with this octopus of cables everywhere that dont lock i dont see making that work.

To the OP's question, I dont know what to make of the Red Rocket X for Mac users. To spend that kind of money on a transcode card just to have it throttled down by Apple's childish design is insane and unacceptable. I might just build a PC for transcodes, I still love OSX

 

[Björn Benckert]

I think the design is not to bad you have to think further. the mac pro machined in the past came with quite heavy aluminium casings. However a lot of those machines (atleast most of ours) have just been sitting rack mounted in our machine room. there these expansive casings and the conectors are no real use. But as you say out in the field they are very much needed, but I have no doubt that there will be more than one military grade 3 part casing for these apple dust bins with built in cable locks. Just as I have no doubt that there will be rack mounts developed for them and most important there will be a whole bunch of break out (or strap on, if you want to call it) boxes that can take any and multiple PCI cards like the redrocketX for example.

As TB2 is seriously fast these breakout boxes will not be any different than seating the card directly onto the mother board.

The only thing that worries me a bit is monitor cable extensions. Is there ways to extend TB cables to a serious length, as I have no intention to have a computer on my desk, not even if it looks like a dust bin.

 

[Dominik Muench]

not trying to make a fool of myself here but has anyone played around with the new macbook airs ?
I had a quick play with one yesterday...unfortunately there wasn't enough time to test some R3D footage. I only got to use fcpx for a few minutes but damn....these things are fast....and considering they have thunderbolt and therefore support the rocket. I'm not suggesting these as serious editing machines....but has anyone experience with them for on the fly/ location transcoding and quick edits ?

 

[Paul Harb]

Thunderbolt 2 has no where near the bandwidth of a true pci 3.0 16x slot.
Thunderbolt 2 maxes out 20 gigabits per second. PCI express 3.0 has 16 gigabytes per second aka 128 gigabits per second.

I think the design is not to bad you have to think further. the mac pro machined in the past came with quite heavy aluminium casings. However a lot of those machines (atleast most of ours) have just been sitting rack mounted in our machine room. there these expansive casings and the conectors are no real use. But as you say out in the field they are very much needed, but I have no doubt that there will be more than one military grade 3 part casing for these apple dust bins with built in cable locks. Just as I have no doubt that there will be rack mounts developed for them and most important there will be a whole bunch of break out (or strap on, if you want to call it) boxes that can take any and multiple PCI cards like the redrocketX for example.

As TB2 is seriously fast these breakout boxes will not be any different than seating the card directly onto the mother board.

The only thing that worries me a bit is monitor cable extensions. Is there ways to extend TB cables to a serious length, as I have no intention to have a computer on my desk, not even if it looks like a dust bin.

 

[Michael Jennings]

I want to buy a Redrocket that is dead. Not worth fixing. Please message me if you have one.
Thanks,
Michael