Weapon wish

[Kemalettin Sert]

I'm just going to side step the condescending nature of your response and push on...

So you think it's a BAD idea to add thumbnails to each r3d? In what way is that a bad idea? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Also, you're also telling me you've never had a situation pop up where you could have saved a ton of time by deleting an individual clip?

Please...save it.

Why dont you answer my questions? (about Alexa-F65 etc.)
i dont think its a bad idea to add thumbnails.im already seeing those on Redcine-X anytime i want.
In last 5 years of Red experience never had situation requires me delete any clip.I always carry extra SSDs.If its a long take i reload new mag before the shot.There are already people making stupid mistakes in camera why adding 1 more option to ruin ? i have read heard too many mistakenly deleted cards on sets.Adding individual clip delete option would welcome more hassle.In the end people gonna blame the Red for this not persons.
Nobody wants it except %1.Go ask any rental company about this option and hear the stories

 

[Luke Neumann]

Why dont you answer my questions? i dont think its a bad idea to add thumbnails.im already seeing those on Redcine-X anytime i want.
In last 5 years of Red experience never had situation to delete any clip.I always carry extra SSDs.If its a long take i reload new mag before the shot.There are already people making stupid mistakes on camera why adding 1 more option to ruin ? i have read heard too many mistakenly deleted cards on set.Adding individual clip delete option would welcome more hassle.
Nobody wants it except %1.Go ask any rental company about this option and hear the stories

I don't think that's reason to NOT add something though. People accidentally deleting mags will happen, there's not really a way around that and I wouldn't put that on the camera.

Bury the option to delete an individual clip in the menu during playback and have an extra on screen prompt asking if you want to proceed.

Also, when I want to look back at a few shots I don't always have access to RedCineX. I hardly think I'm in the 1 percentile on this.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Why dont you answer my questions? (about Alexa-F65 etc.)
i dont think its a bad idea to add thumbnails.im already seeing those on Redcine-X anytime i want.
In last 5 years of Red experience never had situation requires me delete any clip.I always carry extra SSDs.If its a long take i reload new mag before the shot.There are already people making stupid mistakes in camera why adding 1 more option to ruin ? i have read heard too many mistakenly deleted cards on sets.Adding individual clip delete option would welcome more hassle.In the end people gonna blame the Red for this not persons.
Nobody wants it except %1.Go ask any rental company about this option and hear the stories

what you say does not make any sense, as covered in detail before... ur arguments are absolutely mind boggling... so just because Sony and Arri didn't have 4K res 8 years ago, RED should have never done it ?

so why is there then a FORMAT mag option in camera ? I could easily format any RED mag on the PC, so it doesn't need to be in camera - especially since we're offloading in a RED station anyways, ON A COMPUTER... Explain that logic.

any idiot could accidentally format an entire mag, yet that is less of a problem to you then accidentally deleting a single clip... wow.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Mind boggling? Mike with you its %2 now. you were crying over this option for weeks ( page 7 on this thread).why dont you guys go red.com and buy an extra redmag?
Red,Arri and Sony dont add this feature on cameras , Even you guys know it doable then explain the logic why its not available.Must be piece of cake for software developers.

 

[Björn Benckert]

LOL...how does this have anything to do with not knowing the menus?

Thumbnail previews are hidden in the menus somewhere? How about individual clip deletion? I haven't seen them yet. Do enlighten.



Cycling through a bunch of file names on a full 512 GB card with no thumbnails and having trouble finding the desired clip is NOT "operator error". Sorry dude.

People use the cards and cameras differently I guess. For a lot of the bigger productions the cards are swapped after ever setup. Just to make sure things are captured and secured over at the DIT station kind of like "check the gate" in the film days. Also playback is still mostly done separately away from camera, as the camera is resetting or moving on to the next setup while the playback is done. I think that kind of environment is what these cameras came from and where primerly built for. But I agree why not thumb nails. I try to ditch video assist on all smaller shoots to save a coin... And things change, one of my favorite hot keys now is the "rocker switch" on the front of the side handle. I keep it programed so right after stop record I can rock it to the left to get to play menu and rocking right is play last clip then rocking left again is exit play. After using it for a while it really becomes muscle memory.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

People use the cards and cameras differently I guess. For a lot of the bigger productions the cards are swapped after ever setup. Just to make sure things are captured and secured over at the DIT station kind of like "check the gate" in the film days. Also playback is still mostly done separately away from camera, as the camera is resetting or moving on to the next setup while the playback is done. I think that kind of environment is what these cameras came from and where primerly built for. But I agree why not thumb nails. I try to ditch video assist on all smaller shoots to save a coin... And things change, one of my favorite hot keys now is the "rocker switch" on the front of the side handle. I keep it programed so right after stop record I can rock it to the left to get to play menu and rocking right is play last clip then rocking left again is exit play. After using it for a while it really becomes muscle memory.

+1 on everything you said Björn.
Minority of people thinks everybody using camera like their way.i go out sets everytime and rarely i scroll on playback menu or playback via camera.
director cant find the right shot because there are no thumbnails in playback menu? Only owner operator videographers uses this camera like that.People making movies with Red.http://www.red.com/shot-on-red Do you guys think Fincher needs individual clip deletion for his next most important shot because there is no space on card? dont think so

 

[Luke Neumann]

Mind boggling? Mike with you its %2 now. you were crying over this option for weeks ( page 7 on this thread).why dont you guys go red.com and buy an extra redmag?
Red,Arri and Sony dont add this feature on cameras , Even you guys know it doable then explain the logic why its not available.Must be piece of cake for software developers.

This thread is titled "Weapon wishes". Why is it so much to ask that the menus/clip management/playback get a face lift? It looks like Weapon marks a re imagining of the body/accessories so why wouldn't there be wishes on the software side of things?

 

[Luke Neumann]

+1 on everything you said Björn.
Minority of people thinks everybody using camera like their way.i go out sets everytime and rarely i scroll on playback menu or playback via camera.
director cant find the right shot because there are no thumbnails in playback menu? Only owner operator videographers uses this camera like that.People making movies with Red.http://www.red.com/shot-on-red Do you guys think Fincher needs individual clip deletion for his next most important shot because there is no space on card? dont think so

Thinking Fincher makes up the majority market of RED sales = delusional. There is no logical argument AGAINST adding these features. Keeping them off just to keep them off makes ZERO SENSE.

I've spent too much time with this, guess this thread should be re named "Weapon wish (ONLY FOR A CERTAIN TYPE OF USER)"

Geez.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Mind boggling? Mike with you its %2 now. you were crying over this option for weeks ( page 7 on this thread).why dont you guys go red.com and buy an extra redmag?
Red,Arri and Sony dont add this feature on cameras , Even you guys know it doable then explain the logic why its not available.Must be piece of cake for software developers.

the problem with your arguments is that you flip-flop like it's 1992...

man, first u refer to Arri/Sony - we debunked that (they are not RED and never will be when it comes to feature set). Then u refer to a celluloid film workflow (bud, the year is 2015), debunked that. Then u said it's not necessary, debunked that (been requested since 2007). Then on your last straw, u now refer to the hard part of sw development... ;-)

man, even you must understand that it is insanely inefficient to offload (and clear) a 240 GB mag when you actually only need ONE freaking clip from it...

if it's technically not recommended (due to the nature of SSD) that's one thing, but man any on set workflow using a cell phone is better/more-efficient than a celluloid workflow, yet u make fun of low-IQ equipment - u need to differentiate between workflows, feature sets and (ultimate) image quality... it's a shame we can't do what they can do on the video app on a cell phone.

We should aim to improve the RED workflow on every level.

 

[Luke Neumann]

the problem with your arguments is that you flip-flop like it's 1992...

man, first u refer to Arri/Sony - we debunked that (they are not RED and never will be when it comes to feature set). Then u refer to a celluloid film workflow (bud, the year is 2015), debunked that. Then u said it's not necessary, debunked that (been requested since 2007). Then on your last straw, u now refer to the hard part of sw development... ;-)

man, even you must understand that it is insanely inefficient to offload (and clear) a 240 GB mag when you actually only need ONE freaking clip from it...

if it's technically not recommended (due to the nature of SSD) that's one thing, but man any on set workflow using a cell phone is better/more-efficient than a celluloid workflow, yet u make fun of low-IQ equipment - u need to differentiate between workflows, feature sets and (ultimate) image quality... it's a shame we can't do what they can do on the video app on a cell phone.

We should aim to improve the RED workflow on every level.

Just went back through and read this thread. Seems like you have already been through this

 

[Bobby Farokhzad]

The P2 cards write (H26x) compressed files. The speed is trivial compared to the R3D stream...
I also believe that P2 cards are striping , kind of RAID 0 setup. That helps both the speed and the fragmenting issues...

Not to beat on a dead horse, but here is my final thought on this subject since I think I may have started this whole mess about deleting clips (first post on page 5 of this thread). The new P2 express card can record 4k resolution at up to 120 FPS and it also allows for...... (drum roll please) clip deletion. Trivial indeed. This is by no means a deal breaker for me, I will continue to shoot RED for a very long time, but having this feature would sure be nice. My humble two cents.

 

[Luke Neumann]

Not to beat on a dead horse, but here is my final thought on this subject since I think I may have started this whole mess about deleting clips (first post on page 5 of this thread). The new P2 express card can record 4k resolution at up to 120 FPS and it also allows for...... (drum roll please) clip deletion. Trivial indeed. This is by no means a deal breaker for me, I will continue to shoot RED for a very long time, but having this feature would sure be nice. My humble two cents.

Of course, not a deal breaker at all. Haven't had it and haven't even really THOUGHT about it before now. I have never really "needed it" but I know it would speed things up quite a bit which I am always all for!

Given the title of this thread, I don't think it's as outlandish of a request as some have deemed it.

 

[Elsie N]

I'm not sure how RED media works, but if you delete a clip, does the media simply now have a hole where the deleted clip resided, or does everything on the mag re-order itself?

If the former, your extra clip would probably have to be no larger than the clip deleted... yes/no?

And last but certainly not least, does such a practice shorten the life of the cards?

 

[Luke Neumann]

While we're at it. Is there a reason for the current folder>subfolder>.r3d structure OTHER than .rmd association?

Again, this isn't a game breaker but what about the option to be able to choose the structure. Personally I would prefer folder>r3d with the corresponding .rmd just showing up (if it's generated) right after the .r3d in the folder. In most applications (RedCineX, Premiere) it's not an issue.

In something like After Effects though, it's kind of a pain to go into each subfolder to manually select each .r3d.

My two cents.

 

[Björn Benckert]

+1 on everything you said Björn.
Minority of people thinks everybody using camera like their way.i go out sets everytime and rarely i scroll on playback menu or playback via camera.
director cant find the right shot because there are no thumbnails in playback menu? Only owner operator videographers uses this camera like that.People making movies with Red.http://www.red.com/shot-on-red Do you guys think Fincher needs individual clip deletion for his next most important shot because there is no space on card? dont think so

Then again there is only one Fincher, but there is a shit load of one man band / only one SSD kind of shooters

I think Red stated that the mag is fragmented quite heavily when we hit record with a lot of starts and ends reads even within a single clip, this will if make the mag worse from each such over write procedure, then possibly not directly but after a while the SSD could start dropping frames etc when we max out the data levels and I think lowest compression is quite close call for what the SSD can handle so a a bit of frag lag on the SSD could be fatal. I think that's what its about. But a simple test to prove them wrong on that I guess is to delete single clips on a computer and record again, again and again...

 

[Björn Benckert]

While we're at it. Is there a reason for the current folder>subfolder>.r3d structure OTHER than .rmd association?

Again, this isn't a game breaker but what about the option to be able to choose the structure. Personally I would prefer folder>r3d with the corresponding .rmd just showing up (if it's generated) right after the .r3d in the folder. In most applications (RedCineX, Premiere) it's not an issue.

In something like After Effects though, it's kind of a pain to go into each subfolder to manually select each .r3d.

My two cents.

If that's the case AE should change not the file structure, since pretty much every other program can see the r3d's as one file. So Changing the file structure now would make all else fail but AE...

Also the main folder is there for reasons, alot of people keep subfolders there for proxies, sound files, clip reversions, lens data and other take info, not just r3d's.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Then again there is only one Fincher, but there is a shit load of one man band / only one SSD kind of shooters

well, here's a scenario that doesn't happen a lot but happened in Dec 2014... we shot with three 240 GB mags... long day.

one mag got corrupted during the day, so we left it as is and took it out of rotation as the plan was to recover on an off-day via redundead - which was successful and btw I managed to get done via OSX in a virtual machine (running in Windows), so (fortunately) I did not have to get access to a rotten apple.

one 240 GB mag was still offloading - Luke, u're gonna love this: in the Redstation I bought from our new bff Kemalettin in 2013 (and I guess we come full circle) - and the remaining last mag we had in cam...

well, the lead actress finally started to show some magic but now the mag was full (with subpar takes except 2 in the beginning) and the other mag was still offloading...

when we finally came back to the scene, princess peach was again nothing but a blonde doll with the emotional life and charm of prehistoric frog shit.

but hey... at least the missing feature prevented me from deleting "by accident" any of her BS takes from the redmag ! ;-)))))

 

[Luke Neumann]

If that's the case AE should change not the file structure, since pretty much every other program can see the r3d's as one file. So Changing the file structure now would make all else fail but AE...

Also the main folder is there for reasons, alot of people keep subfolders there for proxies, sound files, clip reversions, lens data and other take info, not just r3d's.

Agreed. I guess AE is the odd one out.

 

[Luke Neumann]

well, the lead actress finally started to show some magic but now the mag was full (with subpar takes except 2 in the beginning)

I have been in similar situations for sure!

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I also have heard that the inability to erase files caused earthquakes in California and tornadoes in Kansas. Come on, guys. lol