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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Weapon VistaVision sensor

W

Wynn Padula

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Personally, I was the 28th person (according to RED's time stamp) to pay for my Epic Dragon to be upgraded to a Weapon with a VV sensor. The sole reason I justified this large cost was to get a larger sensor, the other Weapon benefits are nice, but I certainly wouldn't have pulled the trigger for them...

Needless to say, I think that even the RED Team themselves would agree that it has taken too long to get us early Weapon VV upgrader's VV sensors. I truly hope that they show some sort of loyalty back to us loyal customers by rewarding us with some sort of valuable perk for paying up so far in advance...

I'm sure there are good technical reasons for why the upgrade has taken so long, but even so, I do hope there will be some loyalty shown for the extreme wait of us early purchasers.

Best,

Wynn

Wynn Padula
Director of Photography
www.wynnpadula.com
 
If your referring to the 8K Weapon Queue thread on Red User, it is not an official list, just a list of people who were willing to share info to give us a rough estimate of where we stand. There are plenary of buyers who did not participate, and of course there is Panavision. No official word if they go before or after, or together. Jarred has been explicit that the process is harder then they thought and has offered your money back for those that can't stick it out, and put Helium chips in our camera till then. It up to each buyer to decide if they can wait. Personally to have camera equivalent to the Panavision version is a no brainer to wait it out. Sure were all disappointed, but I can tell you it won't take me 10 seconds to pull the trigger on a VV 10-12k helium sensor even if it entails a wait again.

However given the choice, I would take a VV Helium if they are coming. Till then, I'm happy shooting Helium and waiting out vista.
 
What? I thought Red started upgrading customers to VV by now. With all the talk about "going through a few dud wafers" and "finally shipping out VV to customers very soon"...... what's going on?
 
With IPP2 being diligently worked on for us - we're all going to get 'better' pixels with our existing cameras (and footage!)

RED have gone above and beyond to keep us in the loop about the logistical issues in making the VV sensor, and the non-consumer demands.

RED also offered people their deposit back (if they can't wait!)

And for those in the queue - Red are - at their own expense LENDING a brand new state of the art 8K Helium as a stop gap (absorbing the depreciation of the Helium sensor on return), and giving these people the chance to stay on Helium.

It might be an unexpectedly long ride - But it is one Hell of a ride!

AJ
 
I love RED. I love their cameras and I have come to expect delays as standard... but everyone must admit that it is very strange to pay a lot of money to upgrade your entire Epic to get a VV sensor weapon and then never receive that sensor... and then have an even newer Helium sensor come out and start shipping before your VV Dragon sensor arrives.


I had not heard that RED is offering money back for people like me who upgraded to VV Weapons on the first day offered. Does that include a refund for just the VV sensor or does it include a refund for the complete Weapon purchase, because the only reason I upgraded from the Epic to the Weapon was for the VV sensor. Not to mention that the cost of upgrading my Epic Dragon to a VV Weapon lay much more in having to upgrade all of my modules and mini-mags etc. than it did with the actual brain costs...

Also, I too was initially told that I would be receiving a complimentary Helium upgrade back in November and I still haven't heard anything more about sending my Weapon in for a Helium upgrade yet.

I don't mean to be just a big complainer here... can anyone point me to a thread or more information that explains how the VV Dragon Weapon is going to compare to the VV Helium Weapon and the VV Panavision?
 
A few more snuck out of RED recently after passing QC. The Dragon 8K VV still remains a son-of-a-bitch to manufacture sadly.

I would recommend contacting your Bomb Squad Rep if you are looking for a refund, they aren't going to reach out to you, you would need to contact them. That said, if you can sit on that, it's very much worth the wait.

I'll have some information regarding Helium 8K and Dragon 8K next week. There is no VV Helium though. Helium 8K S35 is around the sensor size of Dragon 6K S35.

In terms of Dragon 8K VV and Panavision DXL 8K. Same sensor, different guts and hardware. Plus they are doing weirder things once they finish up their OLPF and Light Iron Color. So they aren't a perfect match if you are doing a side by side. Though could be matched if used on the same production.
 
Wynn, I'd suspect if you wanted out of the camera, there would be more then a few people interested in buying it at a premium as no one is sure if anyone will get a chance to order them. Jarred has hinted that they will go for a LOT more in the future. Maybe significantly more.

You should have got your Helium upgrade by now, or very soon. If you do you won't want to go back to epic.
 
Michael Dalton said:
Wynn, I'd suspect if you wanted out of the camera, there would be more then a few people interested in buying it at a premium as no one is sure if anyone will get a chance to order them. Jarred has hinted that they will go for a LOT more in the future. Maybe significantly more.

You should have got your Helium upgrade by now, or very soon. If you do you won't want to go back to epic.
Click to expand...
If you decide to keep the Helium, they even offer you money back, which totally surprised me. At a minimum, we know that VV will be at least $20k next time it goes on sale. That is minimum.
 
Here is an 8K HD VV frame of Kerry Park in Seattle. This is ungraded. Just the default 709/1886 output from IPP2. It was an overcast day near sunset, so it is pretty dull, but super clean (low noise). There are six images in the zip file:

1. Source Image @ 7680x4320
2. Image number 1 with deconvolution applied.
3. This is a UHD version of number 1. (3840x2160)
4. This is a UHD version of number 2. (3840x2160)
5. This is an HD version of number 1. (1920x1080)
6. This is an HD version of number 2. (1920x1080)

The scaling I used is based on this paper on down scaling using SSIM.

You can use your favorite scaling engine to scale images 1 and 2. Right now we are working on adding anti-ringing code to both SSIM and deconvolution (decon) to further improve them. We used a box filter, like the paper, on the images above. We can also use other kernels like Lanczos, but those naturally ring. Once we finish the anti-ringing code for SSIM and decon, we will work on the anti-ringing code for Lanczos.

Update: Forgot to include technical details:
7680x4320 (8K HD), ISO 400, 5:1, IPP2, 709, BT.1886, Otus 85mm @ f/5.6.
 
Stacey Spears said:
If you decide to keep the Helium, they even offer you money back, which totally surprised me. At a minimum, we know that VV will be at least $20k next time it goes on sale. That is minimum.
Click to expand...

What is the rebate if you retain the Helium? is there a thread on this?

I have an advance-paid Weapon VV sensor in the queue, but I'm liking the Helium sensor on my new EPIC-W quite a bit. It might be worth it just to stay with the Helium, once my number is called. On the other hand, since I have the EPIC-W already, it may be worth it to be patient and get one of these unicorn VV sensors.

Door #1 or Door #2? decisions, decisions....
 
The VV is the "Holy Grail" . High End DSMC realized- a unique vista look, dragon ultimate dynamic range, weapon low light performance. The king of kings. Panavision chose it for a reason.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
What is the rebate if you retain the Helium?
Click to expand...

It was in the Helium upgrade email that you receive when your number is called. The price difference from someone who upgrades to Helium from CF Weapon and the VV deposit, whidh is in the ballpark of $5k.
 
Stacey Spears said:
Here is an 8K HD VV frame of Kerry Park in Seattle. This is ungraded. Just the default 709/1886 output from IPP2. It was an overcast day near sunset, so it is pretty dull, but super clean (low noise). There are six images in the zip file:

1. Source Image @ 7680x4320
2. Image number 1 with deconvolution applied.
3. This is a UHD version of number 1. (3840x2160)
4. This is a UHD version of number 2. (3840x2160)
5. This is an HD version of number 1. (1920x1080)
6. This is an HD vesion of number 2. (1920x1080)

The scaling I used is based on this paper on down scaling using SSIM.

You can use your favorite scaling engine to scale images 1 and 2. Right now we are working on adding anti-ringing code to both SSIM and deconvolution (decon) to further improve them. We used a box filter, like the paper, on the images above. We can also use other kernels like Lanczos, but those naturally ring. Once we finish the anti-ringing code for SSIM and decon, we will work on the anti-ringing code for Lanczos.

Update: Forgot to include technical details:
7680x4320 (8K HD), ISO 400, 5:1, IPP2, 709, BT.1886, Otus 85mm @ f/5.6.
Click to expand...

Stacy could you post an R3D? VV R3D's seem to be the Holy Grail right now. Everyone want's it, and yet it's nowhere to be found.

THANKS!!
best
 
So if we, that orders the early VV stick with the Helium upgrade and don't go VV we get a 5k USD refund?

Hmm, I like helium but 5k USD is not a huge number to stay in line for something bigger. I understand all the people here that is frustrated about the wait and possibly feels lured into weapon upgrade to get the VV and then the VV simply does not ship. It something difficult to argue against. Even though for my part I would have gone weapon no matter what and I think even if its a long wait RED has always awarded those who wait one way or another so I feel pretty good about the whole situation. To look at it from the positive side.. if I had that money in my pocket it would for sure be long gone on something stupid, but as its sits on the red account I simply got 5k USD stored in a safe place for a rainy day if nothing else. And I´m not sure how it works with my taxes, hoping that my accountant see that money as gone already 2105, which would also be a god thing. :)
 
if I were at the front of the VV line, this would be a no brainer, get the VV - but from the back of the line, it looks a little different.

I have a 6K Weapon Dragon and an 8K EPIC-W Helium, and the Helium is currently the newer, and in many cases more desireable, tech. I'd like to get my much more expensive Weapon outperforming my EPIC again with Helium, at least. I'm very happy that RED is offering this stop-gap upgrade and a later choice. It's fantastic, really.

But I'm just looking forward to getting the Helium in the Weapon and deciding later what the best choice will be for my biz. A lot could change by the time the choice confronts me - I imagine this is true for all of us who are not at the front of the line.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Stacy could you post an R3D? VV R3D's seem to be the Holy Grail right now. Everyone want's it, and yet it's nowhere to be found.

THANKS!!
best
Click to expand...

+1. Eheh cmon Stacy ;) please :) :)
 
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