Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Weapon Lenses

David Baumber said:
I can still use my EF Motion mount for my set of Canon L primes right?
Click to expand...

But only in s35 mode I believe? I expect new mounts will be needed to get VV ?

PS: Officially requesting a Nikon full frame mount.
 
DJ Meyer said:
But only in s35 mode I believe? I expect new mounts will be needed to get VV ?

.
Click to expand...


why, if the canon mount works for full frame on canon?. Same Flange focal distance and no mirror to worry about?
 
DJ Meyer said:
But only in s35 mode I believe? I expect new mounts will be needed to get VV ?

PS: Officially requesting a Nikon full frame mount.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming all Canon mounts would work fine on VV. No one on RED team has mentioned a need for new EOS mounts...
 
Nick Morrison said:
I'm assuming all Canon mounts would work fine on VV. No one on RED team has mentioned a need for new EOS mounts...
Click to expand...

All existing DSMC Lens Mounts will work on Weapon from what I understand. Since the EF Mount is to Canon's spec I can't fathom why there would need to be a different one ever.

The only mount update we have seen thus far is the new MG PL Mount which has captive bolts, which is nice.
 
Phil Holland said:
The only mount update we have seen thus far is the new MG PL Mount which has captive bolts, which is nice.
Click to expand...


It is nice, but only if all my other mounts have captive bolts. Now the bolts always go right back in, so they never get lost. With one captive-bolt mount, what do I do with the bolts that come out? (I know, little plastic bags or camera tape, or...) But it kind of begs for a full-line update.
 
Remember that story about the little kid observing all the guys standing around a tractor-trailer scratching their heads, trying to figure out how to get a tall load liking only an inch or so to clear, under an overpass? Then the kid suggests "Why don't you just let some air out of the tires?"

Wehhhhll, call me that kid if you will, but if I experience any vignetting on my current FF lenses, I will frame to allow for cropping the image so as to not show the vignette. With 8k resolution I should have plenty of throw-away room. '-)
 
Elsie N said:
Wehhhhll, call me that kid if you will, but if I experience any vignetting on my current FF lenses, I will frame to allow for cropping the image so as to not show the vignette. With 8k resolution I should have plenty of throw-away room. '-)
Click to expand...

What's the point of paying for a full frame sensor if you're only going to use a part of it?
 
DJ Meyer said:
What's the point of paying for a full frame sensor if you're only going to use a part of it?
Click to expand...

Heh, the part you are using is still probably 7.8k '-)
 
Mike Nagel said:
and the bigger pain will be cropping every shot in post... do that for a feature and u'll go bonkers... ;-)

for 8K 2.4:1 (ur best chance) u'll need 44.37mm image circle...
Click to expand...

Actually a few handfuls of features have been shot at 6K and framed for 5K. Not actually that big of a deal.

Also, 8K WS will likely be like all other WS RED formats at 2.37:1 which would be a 44.5mm image circle approximately.

There will likely be a few other "special formats" in there perhaps, similar to how 6K HD doesn't use the full height of the Dragon 6K sensor as 6K HD actually covers nearly all S35 glass because of that.

We are getting closer and closer the Weapon 6K Dragon release and there's bodies being stress tested in the field by some of the really OG folk.


Back to the topic this 8K Dragon VistaVision+ format is such an interesting thing. I think we'll find a host of Full Frame 35mm still glass and the newer VV designed glass covers a great deal. However, since 8K FF is that "big" at 40.96mm we're getting closer to Medium Format territory. If vignetting is a concern or field through edge sharpness/illumination is as well, this might be an opportunity to explore MF glass.

I'm doing "both things" and I'm actually really happy with the MF glass I've put together oddly, though it's not the fastest glass in the world.
 
Last edited:
Phil Holland said:
Actually a few handfuls of features have been shot at 6K and framed for 5K. Not actually that big of a deal.

Also, 8K WS will likely be like all other WS RED formats at 2.37:1 which would be a 44.5mm image circle approximately.

There will likely be a few other "special formats" in there perhaps, similar to how 6K HD doesn't use the full height of the Dragon 6K sensor as 6K HD actually covers nearly all S35 glass because of that.

We are getting closer and closer the Weapon 6K Dragon release and there's bodies being stress tested in the field by some of the really OG folk.


Back to the topic this 8K Dragon VistaVision+ format is such an interesting thing. I think we'll find a host of Full Frame 35mm still glass and the newer VV designed glass covers a great deal. However, since 8K FF is that "big" at 40.96mm we're getting closer to Medium Format territory. If vignetting is a concern or field through edge sharpness/illumination is as well, this might be an opportunity to explore MF glass.

I'm doing "both things" and I'm actually really happy with the MF glass I've put together oddly, though it's not the fastest glass in the world.
Click to expand...

if u calculate it w/ 5 micron pixel pitch:

8K WS (2.37:1): 44.46mm image circle
8K 2.4:1 (different format): 44.37mm image circle

and 8K FF is: 46.31mm image circle


MF glass it is, or cropping w/ FF glass... but hopefully peeps find FF glass that just naturally has a larger image circle, although FF "only" needs 43.xx mm coverage...

The Otus (55 | 85) both do not cover as well, at least not their calculated image circle and also not from what Zeiss states (43mm coverage)...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A good number of 35mm FF lenses are going to cover the 46mm image circle here. Just sayin'
 
Jeff, here is a link to some old information from Matt Duclos. It lists image circles of a variety of lenses. There are many capable lenses that cover 43mm diagonals, but he hasn't listed any that exceed that. If someone wants to shoot with the full Weapon, they need an image circle greater than 46mm. It may be that Matt simply posted 43mm since that was the largest size he was illustrating when in fact many of the lenses exceed that. I'm sure you know far better than I! Hope I survive my first post here after lurking for years!

https://matthewduclos.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/image-circle-database.pdf
 
Phil/Guys,
Im getting a little confused by all of this image circle discussion. I understand totally the concept that the circle has to cover the width and height of the sensor for the lens to be classes as 'usable', so are we saying something like this Zeiss 35mm (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687445-REG/Zeiss_1834_816_Compact_Prime_CP_2_35mm_T2_1.html) is acceptable for 8K on RedWeapon? Also how does the Fujinon Cabrio zooms fit in all of this, do they cover 8K ok?

Rich
 
Richard Kynaston said:
Phil/Guys,
Im getting a little confused by all of this image circle discussion. I understand totally the concept that the circle has to cover the width and height of the sensor for the lens to be classes as 'usable', so are we saying something like this Zeiss 35mm (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687445-REG/Zeiss_1834_816_Compact_Prime_CP_2_35mm_T2_1.html) is acceptable for 8K on RedWeapon? Also how does the Fujinon Cabrio zooms fit in all of this, do they cover 8K ok?

Rich
Click to expand...

Hi Richard. The key to this is that all lenses are typically designed to optimally cover a specific format size. Some lenses cover slightly larger format sizes as their design tolerances allow for this. The Fuji Cabrio Zooms are designed for Super 35mm, which is significantly smaller than the VistaVision+ sized sensor of RED Weapon 8K Dragon.

I have tested a great deal of lenses and much of the Dragon related coverage information can be found here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?103766-Dragon-Lens-Coverage-Information


I have yet to do any coverage tests on the 8K Dragon sensor, but the general concept is lenses designed for "Full Frame/FF35/VistaVision" should cover 8K FF with likely all of those lenses covering 8K HD and 8K WS. However, that's my guess at the moment and we have to wait for coverage tests to be done.

At the moment there's a few lenses designed for larger formats like RED Weapon 8K Dragon:

- Panavision Series 70 T2 Primes
- Zeiss Compact Zooms (PL or EF Mount)
- Schneider Xenon FF-Primes (PL or EF Mount)
- Zeiss Compact Primes (PL or EF Mount)
- Canon CN-E Primes (EF Mount or PL Mount if modified at Duclos Lenses)
- Canon, Sigma, Nikon, Zeiss, Tokina, Tamron, Voigtlander Still Glass ( not EF-s or DX lenses)
- Rokinon (EF or F Mount)
- *some Leica, Zeiss, and Voigtlander M-Mount Lenses (Leica M Mount)
- Various Vintage Leica-R, Canon FD, Yashica, Zeiss, Tokina, Tamron, Pentax, Olympus OM, Helios, etc.... lenses can be adapted to common modern mounts.
- Any and all Medium Format Still glass that also can be adapted to modern mounts.


The note to make there is those first 3 listed above are brand new "designed for motion picture use" cinema lenses. Everything below that are based on Still Lens designs in some way. Some Still Lenses fair better than others when rehoused and modified for motion picture use.

Sony E-Mount, Samsung NX-Mount, and Micro Four Thirds lenses do not work on RED cameras due the Flange Focal Distance being to short.
 
David Baumber said:
Early days I know but as I've gone for the Weapon CF 8K upgrade I'm already looking at lens choices. I'm absolutely no expert in this larger format area so any opinions or guesses from the pros would be interesting.

I also want to start investing in compatible lenses now.

Ideas?
Click to expand...

You'll be surprised what works.
Most glass over 28mm will work.
Its the wide stuff that will annoy you.
And also remember... a 28mm on vista will give you coverage like a 24mm
 
Phil,
Thank you - and also thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply. Very much appreciated. One final question, as I was about to wander out this week and buy a Cabrio in preparation for moving to Red, are we saying that Cabrio won't cover the sensor on the Weapon 8K at any resolution, or is just 8K (i.e. its ok at 6K?). Im not sure if on the lower resolutions, the Weapon is using a smaller part of the sensor, or resizing/resampling the full sensor picture down?

I'll go take a look at your suggested link on lenses, but I can see a few Primes being purchased instead of the Cabrio! Spending that kind of money, I might as well get something that is going to work next year as well as this, when we know what next year is bringing!

Thanks again

Richard
 
Richard Kynaston said:
Phil,
Thank you - and also thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply. Very much appreciated. One final question, as I was about to wander out this week and buy a Cabrio in preparation for moving to Red, are we saying that Cabrio won't cover the sensor on the Weapon 8K at any resolution, or is just 8K (i.e. its ok at 6K?). Im not sure if on the lower resolutions, the Weapon is using a smaller part of the sensor, or resizing/resampling the full sensor picture down?

I'll go take a look at your suggested link on lenses, but I can see a few Primes being purchased instead of the Cabrio! Spending that kind of money, I might as well get something that is going to work next year as well as this, when we know what next year is bringing!
Click to expand...

The Cabrio series thus far are designed for Super 35mm formats. Dragon coverage is as follows:

Phil Holland said:
------------------------------------------------

Fujinon Cabrio 19-90mm T2.9
@19 - 6K FF vignettes, portholes as iris closes, which eventually encroaches on 6K WS coverage, 6K HD works fine
@70 - covers 6K FF nicely

------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top