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Was Jinnimag Thread Removed?

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Maz Mawlawi said:
Being disruptive is more than just price....
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They have one of the cheapest 8k cinema camera's and the m500 mSATA drives are cheap compared to the competition(SxS, CODEX, etc...), pretty disruptive...
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
It.Was.Never.About.The.Price.

As already mentioned, this discussion is older than the recent JinniMag thread.

Will they be: "we could have done this previously, but at least we're doing it now", or will they be further entanglements and added validation why it was impossible before, but due to technical advacements in 2019, it's doable now?
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As I don't have a camera, I avoided jumping on the subject, but somehow I feel, that people are steering this conversation away from the real subject- Red's less than reticent behavior toward openness and full disclosure.
I happen to agree, it was never about the cost.
So, let me bring up another example from not too distant past, when Red was less than helpful- the Red Rocket.
As, I'm sure, you all remember, at the beginning decoding R3Ds was not a trivial matter. For while QuickTime files were provided along with R3Ds, but for many reasons, that scheme was quickly discarded.
I know for a fact, that a few software manufacturers came up with a clever software solution, a workaround if you will, very early in the process, that could make the use of R3D much less taxing, but that idea too was stopped dead in its tracks after they received a very stern warning from Red. Which brought us the original RR card. That card was just a rebadged Atomix card made by DVS with, surprise, custom Red firmware. But, as you all know, if anything broke on that card, you'd have to buy a new one. I know of one software/hardware manufacturer, that got so fed up with this policy, that they wrote their own firmware for those DVS cards, which they were then able to provide to their own customers with a warranty. Shortly after that some users started to ask if debayer could be performed using GPU, but the official Red position at the time was, it's not possible to do. And then, not a long time ago, when RR was replaced by RRX, made by yet another company, Red triumphantly announced a GPU debayer. Everyone on RU was happy and in that thread I asked Red "What took you so long?". To which Jarred responded by calling me an "a..hole" and everyone else joining him in my condemnation.
Oh well...
 
I’m really disappointed the original thread was removed.
Not a good move and certainly not restoring any confidence by doing so.
 
jake blackstone said:
As I don't have a camera, I avoided jumping on the subject, but somehow I feel, that people are steering this conversation away from the real subject- Red's less than reticent behavior.
I happen to agree, it was never about the cost.
So, let me bring up another example from not too distant past, when Red was less than helpful- the Red Rocket.
As, I'm sure, you all remember, at the beginning decoding R3Ds was not a trivial matter. For while QuickTime files were provided along with R3Ds, but for many reasons, that scheme was quickly discarded.
I know for a fact, that a few software manufacturers came up with a clever software solution, a workaround if you will, very early in the process, that could make the use of R3D much less taxing, but that idea too was stopped dead in its tracks after they received a very stern warning from Red. Which brought us the original RR card. That card was just a rebadged Atomix card made by DVS with, surprise, custom Red firmware. But, as you all know, if anything broke on that card, you'd have to buy a new one. I know of one software/hardware manufacturer, that got so fed up with this policy, that they wrote their own firmware for those DVS cards, which they were then able to provide to their own customers with a warranty. Shortly after that some users started to ask if debayer could be performed using GPU, but the official Red position at the time was, it's not possible to do. And then, not a long time ago, when RR was replaced by RRX, made by yet another company, Red triumphantly announced a GPU debayer. Everyone on RU was happy and in that thread I asked Red "What took you so long?". To which Jarred responded by calling me an "a..hole" and everyone else joining him in my condemnation.
Oh well...
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I almost didn't buy a RED camera because of the Bloom situation... I don't know if other companies act like this, but hey, it is what it is... Elon was also being less than nice to a Tesla owner, but I don't think these CEO folks should be the front end customer service. If you like the hardware, then it's the beez kneez -- with that being said -- R3D is what sold me on RED in the first place, otherwise I'd probably be an Arri owner, but I've also heard their customer service is also out-of-line sometimes. I hate to say it, but I don't think these cameras should be owner ops like most are, otherwise you're gonna have to deal with customers. Bosses/CEO/Owners don't really understand that. And now, RED has made their cameras even cheaper, thus bringing more owner ops to the table, which must be frustrating for them. I don't know if they even know what they're doing in that regard. Still great images tho.
 
RED. Please raise the prices back to Epic M days. So people can see what it feels like to spend 70k $$$ . My guess is most if not ALL people complaining were not from that time frame.
 
Most people are complaining about what they feel where dishonest claims made by RED not about the cost of the media.
 
Jeff McCoy said:
I’m really disappointed the original thread was removed.
Not a good move and certainly not restoring any confidence by doing so.
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I agree, I think it was a huge error of judgement.
 
I think it was insane for RED to allow any of this Jinni talk in the first place. They own this website. Why allow all this bitching and moaning on a website they own? Bitch on Facebook or Twitter.

If people don't like the price, they are free to purchase another camera system.

I'm really only 50% fanboy, I really appreciate how this forum has helped me over the years. My employees and I have learned a great deal of information about RED cameras, cinematography, lighting, and post-production here. More importantly, we have sold tens of thousands of dollars of gear here over 10 years avoiding Ebay and PayPal fees. What a great service to the community. Additionally, when Jinni starts attacking Phil Holland, then they have lost me. Phil has created a multitude of charts, lenses guides, and valuable tutorials.
 
Ok, can someone please explain the attack, I’ve been noticing that word being thrown around among this topic and it seems as if calling out someone’s written statements is an attack. You can be attacked with your own actions and words??? Or are those facts and events that happened. I’m OldSchool so please someone help me understand the new age....
 
Stephen Williams said:
I agree, I think it was a huge error of judgement.
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as we all know, that thread was removed b/c certain folks wanted to erase the crazy statements they made that were publicly visible...

but, of course this action now simply completely opened the can of worms, b/c when we were on reduser discussing, there was a chance for RED to chime in etc etc etc

now that happened, again for the Xth time here on reduser, this is being discussed elsewhere and it's literally open season...

I thought it couldn't get funnier, but it did. ;-)

it's also interesting how people say "it got personal" when other folks are literally simply quoting their statements verbatim......... ;-)


@Blackstone: I 100% agree w/ ur last post.
 
Bryan Moore said:
RED. Please raise the prices back to Epic M days. So people can see what it feels like to spend 70k $$$ . My guess is most if not ALL people complaining were not from that time frame.
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Dont understand. Monstro was 80k USD. And there where quite limited options when my low serial number Epic M was delivered, the request was so high back then it was paid off by the first project and even before red managed to deliver the screen for it. So things where simply different back then, not really comparable I would say.


But this Jinni thing, I must say is possibly the most thrilling web series I seen in a long time. What do you guys think this Evil Dr Bruce Jinni will do in this next upcoming season final / episode 3?

I mean, Jinni allready tossed the secrete sword of the scrambled serial numbers of the minimags to the web to thrive on. So selling minimags can not really be what he is after. Do you think he is out there just to use all this attention of him liberating the minimags to market his next invention the Jinnibay in Ep3?

http://www.jinnibay.com


Also this Jinni way of doing things, that obnoxious and disruptive fuck all attitude he struts, very much reminds me of how Red used to be when entering this industry. Yes possibly red was more correct and did not step as close to the line etc. But I still see some similarities and I have gut feel that no matter if we like it or not, this Jinni character will have a greater impact on this industry than most first will think, just as red had back then.

Anyhow, I also think it was sad that the other thread was deleted. But i guess thats all part of the show. Red would not really be Red if letting it stay. ;)

:lurk5:
 
Björn Benckert said:
Dont understand. Monstro was 80k USD. And there where quite limited options when my low serial number Epic M was delivered, the request was so high back then it was paid off by the first project and even before red managed to deliver the screen for it. So things where simply different back then, not really comparable I would say.


But this Jinni thing, I must say is possibly the most thrilling web series I seen in a long time. What do you guys think this Evil Dr Bruce Jinni will do in this next upcoming season final / episode 3?

I mean, Jinni allready tossed the secrete sword of the scrambled serial numbers of the minimags to the web to thrive on. So selling minimags can not really be what he is after. Do you think he is out there just to use all this attention of him liberating the minimags to market his next invention the Jinnibay in Ep3?

http://www.jinnibay.com


Also this Jinni way of doing things, that obnoxious and disruptive fuck all attitude he struts, very much reminds me of how Red used to be when entering this industry. Yes possibly red was more correct and did not step as close to the line etc. But I still see some similarities and I have gut feel that no matter if we like it or not, this Jinni character will have a greater impact on this industry than most first will think, just as red had back then.

Anyhow, I also think it was sad that the other thread was deleted. But i guess thats all part of the show. Red would not really be Red if letting it stay. ;)

:lurk5:
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As they say, all competition is good competition when it comes to the customer.
 
This Linus video on Apple CPU throttling says it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947op8yKJRY

I don't know why I'm more hurt and disappointed by RED doing this since we know that all corporations use misleading marketing. I guess I somehow felt that RED, with substantial support from REDUSER, was more like a family since it's products are more niche and specialized.

Cat is out of the bag. Never believe the hype. Do your own thorough research and analysis before buying anything. If it sounds too good to be true it's because it is. If a company can rinse it's consumer it will.

This whole REDMAG thing is just a case study of a restaurant. Dinner (the camera) is actually pretty good value for the money (watch Linus' video of him breaking down their Helium for proof) but boy do they make money on those drinks! Hence why no restaurant would ever allow BYOB and why RED would never allow third party media. It's just too profitable. The customer is more likely to swallow $2,300 1TB media then a $60,000+ camera.

RED has shot itself in the foot with it's overhyped marketing. The only way forward is to keep their heads low and come out with a product that blows its competition out of the water and let it's performance speak for itself. This is the ARRI model and, honestly, I think this is why they dominate the high-end film market.
 
Deleting the WHOLE thread was a mistake that doesnt help with the manifestation of the Truth. And the fact that RED uses lawsuit threat in so many occasion already is not reassuring on the transparency of the company.
Does anyone knows what happened in fine between RED and Jinimag?

If half of what jinnimag claimed in their videos is true, as a costumer I feel cheated and disapointed . It's alright to do profit, we cant blame RED for that, but guys, srly, selling 850$ a cheap 20$ 120ssd with no transformation except for a fancy case, it is very closed to cheating. And above all, this gap between cost/sell makes us wonder if that ratio applies the rest of the RED products, is it also priced 4.000% the initial cost of it?

As for me, in his statement (on the deleted thread), Jarred didnt reassure me at all about the WHY they priced the minimag so damn high, i dont know what are the tests he claim was so costy, i dont know how they spend "millions of USD" in R&D because nothing seems to make sens anymore if you can pick up an OTS ssd and make it work right away.... this is very oscure to me so far.
 
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