Was Jinnimag Thread Removed?

[Misha Engel]

Could also just still be waiting for replies to his various forum posts across the internet soliciting help from people who know what they are doing. I imagine crafting all those pseudonyms and pretenses takes time.

Jinni mags already work, when fitted with the same mSATA SSD's as the mini mags. I have no idea what the status is of the JinniBay, it shouldn't be that hard to fool a camera with an Eeprom, flash and a cheap ARM cpu.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Innovators, artists and creators

Innovators, artists and creators

Let's break all this down a bit. Put aside the Jinni v RED case for a hot minute and go deeper. The core issues surrounding IP/patent protection are problematic to say the least.

Media production work creates intellectual property. Engineering often creates intellectual property. No IP protection = less gigs/lower pay as once a product/design has been pirated, the value is lost. To be clear, I am an advocate for a rational, functional system to administrate IP disputes. Sadly, instead, we have a paradise for lawyers and ample opportunity for the larger party to wield their economic clout (huge legal teams, pressure on vendors/customers, political graft) to prevail regardless of the merits. Why dive into this on a tech forum - because this is the industry we work in and it's economics impact the entire ecosystem - including RedUsers.

I stand with the innovators, artists and creators - in whatever field. Stepping off soapbox now...

Cheers - #19

(Stipulation - Yes, there are some horrible abuses of artists via corporate thuggery that shock the conscience, but using that as justification won't advance the discussion. An off topic thread entitled - the worst screw job ever - full of great "war" stories would likely be a great read, but my focus is on systemic reforms.)

 

[jake blackstone]

It is well known, that majority of Chinese citizens believes, that IP actually hinders innovation. Like it or not, that's how it works in the Chinese society and that is why any and all innovative products coming out of USA and Europe are immediately copied without any repercussion, protected by the Chinese government. Even the biggest of the big corporate giants, including Google and Apple must come and kiss the ring of the Chinese communist party, if they want to operate in China.
So, if one side is spending billions on R&D only to be undersold by the cheap Chinese knockoffs protected by the government of China, nothing will change...

 

[Misha Engel]

It is well known, that majority of Chinese citizens believes, that IP actually hinders innovation. Like it or not, that's how it works in the Chinese society and that is why any and all innovative products coming out of USA and Europe are immediately copied without any repercussion, protected by the Chinese government. Even the biggest of the big corporate giants, including Google and Apple must come and kiss the ring of the Chinese communist party, if they want to operate in China.
So, if one side is spending billions on R&D only to be undersold by the cheap Chinese knockoffs protected by the government of China, nothing will change...

The same happens all over the world https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/technology/huawei-verizon-patent-license-fees.html on all sides. No one is forcing anyone to trade or produce in China or in any other country. For the corporate giants it's just bonusses and share holders value first, second, third, etc..., that's one of the reasons they invest heavily in creative AI and do everything as a service.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

It is well known, that majority of Chinese citizens believes, that IP actually hinders innovation. Like it or not, that's how it works in the Chinese society and that is why any and all innovative products coming out of USA and Europe are immediately copied without any repercussion, protected by the Chinese government. Even the biggest of the big corporate giants, including Google and Apple must come and kiss the ring of the Chinese communist party, if they want to operate in China.
So, if one side is spending billions on R&D only to be undersold by the cheap Chinese knockoffs protected by the government of China, nothing will change...

"Intellectual property" in a literal sense philosophically interpreted is a complete nonsense. Divorced from reason.

It is a trading legislation terminology attempting to prevent ethical retards from abusing other's achievements for selfish gains and pathology of an egocentric society from feeding of itself. Unsucessfully though, because Age of Idiocy. The more idiotic and dissociated society is, the more laws one needs to enforce to constrain the specifics of reocurring irrationality and endless branches constantly growing from same roots.

Meanwhile, there are corporatosauruses draining resources and putting them on a pile while self absorbed masses with distorted perception of value are "entertained" (hypnotized) into a state of endulged idiocy and fantasia of separation.

Tell me, Jake....would it be possible for Chinese company to make the same product cheaper if manufacturing cost (resources/wages, etc) were the same ? Why aren't they ?

How come Apple and other corporations don't manufacture everything in their countries of origin, paying local wages and infrastructure and re-fueling local economy ? What has propagated this state of mind ? Bad bad Chinese people/government forced themselves on poor westerners with altruistic desires ?

 

[C. Burkhart]

"Intellectual property" in a literal sense philosophically interpreted is a complete nonsense. Divorced from reason.

It is a trading legislation terminology attempting to prevent ethical retards from abusing other's achievements for selfish gains and pathology of an egocentric society from feeding of itself. Unsucessfully though, because Age of Idiocy. The more idiotic and dissociated society is, the more laws one needs to enforce to constrain the specifics of reocurring irrationality and endless branches constantly growing from same roots.

Meanwhile, there are corporatosauruses draining resources and putting them on a pile while self absorbed masses with distorted perception of value are "entertained" (hypnotized) into a state of endulged idiocy and fantasia of separation.

I recognize that english is not your first language, and I am certain that I would have great difficulty mastering yours, but I cannot help that there is a little bit of intellectual snobbism in these somewhat convoluted phrases. I believe that intellectual property is an important concept, that it is not just about ethical retards and idiotic societies. I have also seen copies that were better than their originals (a japanese Les Paul copy from the 70's is more prized today for it's sound than the guitar it was copied from).

Innovation is almost always the extension of someone else's thinking, but the commoditization of that innovation is where things get sticky. That is where recognition has monetary consequences. I think patent laws are actually the bridge between innovation and commoditization. The real issue is that until there is a universally respected "patent office", the national agenda of many countries to stay ahead of the curve in terms of innovation and commoditization will trump any specific company's rightful claim of controlling it's products commercialization. So really the best any company can do is build into it's model the inevitability of it's products eventually being copied somewhere else.

Lastly, and I think this is an important distinction, many chinese copies actually only replicate the exterior, the look of a successful product, but they do not function nearly as well as the original. This may be do to the cheapness of the materials used or missing elements, but ultimately I think many people do know that they are probably buying an inferior product compared to the original and they accept that. Sometimes they get lucky, sometimes they don't.

 

[jake blackstone]

Tell me, Jake....would it be possible for Chinese company to make the same product cheaper if manufacturing cost (resources/wages, etc) were the same ? Why aren't they ?
?

It's a silly question. Without taking into an account the lack of needed infrastructure, all other aspects are pretty meaningless.
Apple was having difficulties assembling the only product made in USA- the MacPro computers, because, among many other difficulties they encountered trying to do it in USA, is they couldn't find a reliable supplier of screws, regardless of price.
Read it yourself:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/28/18200330/why-apple-cant-made-in-america
And not having to invest vast sums of money for R&D by Chinese manufacturers is just an icing on the cake.
Also, suicide nets are pretty cheap these days...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/09/12/apples-new-foxconn-embarrassment/#316883bcd479

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

1qq

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

"Intellectual property" in a literal sense philosophically interpreted is a complete nonsense. Divorced from reason.

It is a trading legislation terminology attempting to prevent ethical retards from abusing other's achievements for selfish gains and pathology of an egocentric society from feeding of itself. Unsucessfully though, because Age of Idiocy. The more idiotic and dissociated society is, the more laws one needs to enforce to constrain the specifics of reocurring irrationality and endless branches constantly growing from same roots.

Meanwhile, there are corporatosauruses draining resources and putting them on a pile while self absorbed masses with distorted perception of value are "entertained" (hypnotized) into a state of endulged idiocy and fantasia of separation.

Tell me, Jake....would it be possible for Chinese company to make the same product cheaper if manufacturing cost (resources/wages, etc) were the same ? Why aren't they ?

How come Apple and other corporations don't manufacture everything in their countries of origin, paying local wages and infrastructure and re-fueling local economy ? What has propagated this state of mind ? Bad bad Chinese people/government forced themselves on poor westerners with altruistic desires ?

Yes, you can thank Mr Kissinger and his financial friends in 50s for that.
Anyway, video from Jinnimag is quite self explanatory. . . and funny ��.

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

It's a silly question. Without taking into an account the lack of needed infrastructure, all other aspects are pretty meaningless.
Apple was having difficulties assembling the only product made in USA- the MacPro computers, because, among many other difficulties they encountered trying to do it in USA, is they couldn't find a reliable supplier of screws, regardless of price.
Read it yourself:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/28/18200330/why-apple-cant-made-in-america
And not having to invest vast sums of money for R&D by Chinese manufacturers is just an icing on the cake.
Also, suicide nets are pretty cheap these days...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/09/12/apples-new-foxconn-embarrassment/#316883bcd479

Are you dreaming. It ia ALL about profit margins. We can get men on the moon (THX to Von Braun) but hey we can not assemble Mr IPhone.
What Joke thinking is this. Profit Margin....understand?.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I recognize that english is not your first language, and I am certain that I would have great difficulty mastering yours, but I cannot help that there is a little bit of intellectual snobbism in these somewhat convoluted phrases.

As english is your first language you can help me understand what you meant by the bolded formulation.

a) you cannot help the snobbism
b) you interpret snobbism in the previous criticism
c) you cannot re-consider the context and interpret something else
d) ?

I believe that intellectual property is an important concept, that it is not just about ethical retards and idiotic societies.

It is an important nonsensical, mutually agreed-upon group imagination of ownership of a mental form, poorly compensating the absence/offset of perception of value within a morally distorted society and individual, incompetent to avoid its missuse otherwise.

So you reach externally, to get a physical proof/confirmation of a third party acting as authority over your "intellectual property" (something formed by your intellect), enforcing that category of ownership to others. Who would otherwise attempt to "steal intellectual property" from you. Which you own. With your intellect. Confirmed by material proof. That the mental form is yours. And no one else's. Who might steal it. Mentally. While it's yours really.

Innovation is almost always the extension of someone else's thinking,

Innovation is also the continuation of everything which predates and inspires it. Without it, it wouldn't exist. It is not born out of nothing in vacuum nor landed into an empty head from nowhere. Someone's thinking started somewhere in some cave with a stick and many have built upon that without hoarding the stick.

Monkeys would hoard a stick and bite and fight themselves who gets it. Though interestingly they wouldn't go so far as to hoard a few hundred billion berries.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

Hey all,

Let's think about the following:

I trust we can all admit that there are some true development costs inherent to finding the right ingredients that compose the end product.
We can also agree that somehow these costs must be covered for the continuation of development cycles and the future of the ecosystem that all customers have invested in.
.

1. A gaming company makes up the console development costs by selling games at a viable markup.
   
2. A soft drink company makes up costs by selling products at a viable markup.
   
3. A camera company makes up costs by selling tested and certified (even rebadged) accessories at a markup that makes it all viable.

The list goes on.

Any third party can step in, ignore all inherent costs involved in developing a sustainable ecosystem like those of the examples above and release a cheaper substitute for a fraction of the cost and claim a "just close enough" end product that is either endorsed or not endorsed by the original manufacturer.
Endorsement is entirely up to the original manufacturer and their internal decisions on how this will affect the future and sustainability of the ecosystem.
.

1. As a console gamer, it would suck if after buying an expensive console you only got 2-3 games before the manufacturer declared bankruptcy because a third party undercut them.
3. As a soft drinks consumer, it would suck if the manufacturer shut down production of a drink you've loved for years simply because a cheap imitation slapped a label that self proclaimed their product is the best substitute and managed to fool a large percentage of consumers into thinking they were consuming the actual thing (remember, not all taste buds work the same way)
5. As a cinematographer or photographer it would ruin your livelihood if after investing time and money to develop a workflow based on a specific camera ecosystem, the manufacturer shut down production simply because a cheap imitation came to market, ignored all development costs and offered an assembly of similar components based on the reverse engineered recipe that was enough to undercut the chance of the original manufacturer to sustain viability.

All of these practices can only guarantee the premature death of any healthy ecosystem and would have the user base for any of the above examples on a war footing, trying to crowdfund a rescue for the company who's products they invested so much time, money, taste and appetite for.

Support the imitators and you kill the future.

 

[jake blackstone]

Are you dreaming. It ia ALL about profit margins. We can get men on the moon (THX to Von Braun) but hey we can not assemble Mr IPhone.
What Joke thinking is this. Profit Margin....understand?.

I bet you can find many places in the world, where labor is much cheaper than China, like in Tanzania or better educated, like say Czech Republic or Slovakia or sizable, like in India. Case solved, move the production there and enjoy the huge profit margins... Except, without the proper infrastructure it doesn't matter. There are literally thousands of highly specialized suppliers required to assemble Mr iPhone. If even one of them fails, then the whole operation would grind to a halt and there goes your profit margins. And that is why Apple moved the MacPro assembly line from Texas to China.
Only a few places in the world with a proper infrastructure, raw materials, low taxation and government regulations, plentiful suppliers and inexpensive trained workforce could support the production of Mr iPhone, understand?

 

[Joshua Miner]

I was under the impression that you could not, in fact, simply slap an SSD into a RedMag and expect it to work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the company in question had to spoof hardware IDs and firmware in order to get it recognized by the camera? I'd have to watch the videos again, but I can't stand the pretentious rants and ramblings of whoever is behind the camera.

 

[Misha Engel]

I bet you can find many places in the world, where labor is much cheaper than China, like in Tanzania or better educated, like say Czech Republic or Slovakia or sizable, like in India. Case solved, move the production there and enjoy the huge profit margins... Except, without the proper infrastructure it doesn't matter. There are literally thousands of highly specialized suppliers required to assemble Mr iPhone. If even one of them fails, then the whole operation would grind to a halt and there goes your profit margins. And that is why Apple moved the MacPro assembly line from Texas to China.
Only a few places in the world with a proper infrastructure, raw materials, low taxation and government regulations, plentiful suppliers and inexpensive trained workforce could support the production of Mr iPhone, understand?

I.O.W. profit margin is leading and when it isn't, just tax the middle class. It doesn't matter where you are, it's the same in every region and/or country, US, China, Vietnam, India, Germany, etc...

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

It is well known, that majority of Chinese citizens believes, that IP actually hinders innovation. (snip)

Logic suggests that IP controls will hinder innovation to some degree. That said, from a capitalist perspective, if there was no protection for the fruits of R&D effort then investment would dry up fast. Ideally, there would be a viable arbiter of IP claims, with actual international authority, that protected genuine innovation in a fair way. Not holding my breath.

Here in our corner of the global economy, professional media content creation, we are dependent on a third party to protect the economic value of our work. Various DRM strategies might slow them down, but AFAIK every scheme to date has been hacked. Gee Blair, if entertainment media loses it's economic value so easily, why are the big players investing so much in creating content? IMO, they are creating demand for bandwidth that will become the primary income stream down the road. Charging per GB makes pirating media pointless. As I have suggested several times in the past, it's all about bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth.

Cheers - #19

 

[andrewhake]

You are all wasting away your lives here. Let. It. Go.

 

[DJ Meyer]

"Intellectual property" in a literal sense philosophically interpreted is a complete nonsense. Divorced from reason.

Why do you demand money for your LUTs? $89 for a text file? We can sell copies, no?

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

I bet you can find many places in the world, where labor is much cheaper than China, like in Tanzania or better educated, like say Czech Republic or Slovakia or sizable, like in India. Case solved, move the production there and enjoy the huge profit margins... Except, without the proper infrastructure it doesn't matter. There are literally thousands of highly specialized suppliers required to assemble Mr iPhone. If even one of them fails, then the whole operation would grind to a halt and there goes your profit margins. And that is why Apple moved the MacPro assembly line from Texas to China.
Only a few places in the world with a proper infrastructure, raw materials, low taxation and government regulations, plentiful suppliers and inexpensive trained workforce could support the production of Mr iPhone, understand?

Wrong again Habib. Just keep manufacturing in your country USA. Quality will improve as well. Stop giving us JP Morgan bullshit!

 

[jake blackstone]

Wrong again Habib. Just keep manufacturing in your country USA. Quality will improve as well. Stop giving us JP Morgan bullshit!

Who is Habib? Is that some Czech or Slovak putdown, that I'm not aware of?
I just explained to you, that among many things, USA lacks the necessary infrastructure to produce modern consumer electronics. Production of some parts are outright impossible in USA, as that production will never pass the existing OSHA and environmental rules. China doesn't have too worry about the impact on the environment, as much as West does. That's why Paris accord was a joke.
Have you heard of rare earth metals? Not long time ago USA produced the majority of those metals, but now close to 90 percent is produced in China, because the process of turning ore into metal is extremely toxic and it became impossible to produce those metals in US. Without those metals it is impossible produce pretty much any electronic devices.
Do you still think this is JP Morgan bullshit?
And what does any of this have to do with JinnyMag?
And why am I arguing with you? Nedáváš smysl