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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Very High Red-orange Noise Levels Without Black Shade

jacob.schwarz said:
all that you are doing is crushing the black and killing the usable data that is there. The sensor wants more light with this calibration but we can't always give it.
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Do this, shoot 250ISO or 320ISO, properly expose without crushing and causing left goal post to trigger. Then in RCX push the footage to 800ISO and see how the noise is. I find it much better than say shooting at 800 on Dragon at the moment with all that noise. At least give it a try for comparison sake.
 
Matt Ryan said:
Do this, shoot 250ISO or 320ISO, properly expose without crushing and causing left goal post to trigger. Then in RCX push the footage to 800ISO and see how the noise is. I find it much better than say shooting at 800 on Dragon at the moment with all that noise. At least give it a try for comparison sake.
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Maybe also try what Toia is doing...shoot 250/320...and expose to the RIGHT almost right below clipping...for whatever reason, seems to be working for him...curious what Probst is doing...
 
save a log file, open a support ticket and send the log file in. I had this problem and my camera went in for repair, a board was replaced.
 
Robert Horwell said:
save a log file, open a support ticket and send the log file in. I had this problem and my camera went in for repair, a board was replaced.
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I would love to know more info about your situation. If fixing the issue is a matter of sending the camera in for another repair, that's a bit disheartening...
 
Just finished a shoot and had the same issue. The noise is unacceptably bad at levels that would have never been an issue on the MX.

Looking forward to getting this fixed and having a camera again!
 
Having to rate a camera at 250/320iso in 2014 to get clean results is a bit disappointing. I was much more excited with the initial samples coming from this sensor before the new calibration.
 
So Red have released their new 250 ISO sensor?

The noise floor effects anything of a low luminance value in the scene. Over exposing really doesn't solve that. The only thing I was thinking was to maybe dust off the old low-con filters.

My Dragon has also been sent back as these images are unusable.
 
Jeremy Hildebrant said:
Having to rate a camera at 250/320iso in 2014 to get clean results is a bit disappointing. I was much more excited with the initial samples coming from this sensor before the new calibration.
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I have ZERO clue what on earth you are talking about.

I had Dragons before and after the new OLPF and every firmware build released and some that we not released - and it's only gotten better and better.

I'm a big fan of shooting low ISOs - but I can can get noise free, black blacks at ISO 800 no problem. Less noise than MX - less noise than Alexa. Any day. All day. So ... if you are not getting those results you are doing something wrong - or there is an issue with your camera.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I have ZERO clue what on earth you are talking about.

I had Dragons before and after the new OLPF and every firmware build released and some that we not released - and it's only gotten better and better.

I'm a big fan of shooting low ISOs - but I can can get noise free, black blacks at ISO 800 no problem. Less noise than MX - less noise than Alexa. Any day. All day. So ... if you are not getting those results you are doing something wrong - or there is an issue with your camera.
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i am still in line for the upgrade so my observations are based on r3d's that I have downloaded since Dragon's release. I think it was Luigi Valtulini that had examples of old and new calibration that proves the new calibration to be noisier.
 
...I'm looking into the problem being discussed with Red, I think they'll figure it out. Maybe to keep things even, and to not blow things out of proportion, if people are referencing noise issuses in any way, post what it is with a certain type of settings / sensor temp / etc so we're leveling it out. Instead of a bunch of different settings and everyone comparing without a control. There's definitely more qualified people on this board to come up with some "control" settings.
 
Again. I'm only seeing the high noise floor personally when i shoot with a shutter of 1/100 or higher even after black shading "at current exposure" and at other various shutter speeds to see if black shading at like 1/48 or 1/240 would make 1/100 look clean. Always noisy! Notihng i've tried or done even after working with people at Red has made any difference. Red still working with me on the issue i'm just trying to figure out what people have been noticing.

I've shot red since he every beginning know how to get the best image out of these guys, but what i've been noticing with my dragon is something that i've never encountered before or understand that why i think it a hardware issue since only a select few of us are noticing it. If more are please speak up.
 
Can anyone post some images detailing the noise you are seeing? It makes the discussion much easier to understand. All of our ideas of noise is slightly different and it would be great to show images of exactly what you are seeing.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I have ZERO clue what on earth you are talking about.

I had Dragons before and after the new OLPF and every firmware build released and some that we not released - and it's only gotten better and better.

I'm a big fan of shooting low ISOs - but I can can get noise free, black blacks at ISO 800 no problem. Less noise than MX - less noise than Alexa. Any day. All day. So ... if you are not getting those results you are doing something wrong - or there is an issue with your camera.
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Ok good to know, but are you seeing red noise in the lcd with the lens cap on or no lens fading away while the temperature of the camera is getting warm?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I have ZERO clue what on earth you are talking about.

I had Dragons before and after the new OLPF and every firmware build released and some that we not released - and it's only gotten better and better.

I'm a big fan of shooting low ISOs - but I can can get noise free, black blacks at ISO 800 no problem. Less noise than MX - less noise than Alexa. Any day. All day. So ... if you are not getting those results you are doing something wrong - or there is an issue with your camera.
Click to expand...

Hi Mark,

I am experiencing the same thing here. My EPIC-X is cleaner then my Dragon regarding noise :-(
 
mount close, no lens this is 1/150 shutter
NoLensTempGood_60.jpg


at 1/50 the noise floor is a little bit down

Is this normal?

I have done BS at the right fps exposure, in the dark as I always do.

As a side note I just got my Dragon back from the new olpf installation
 
Ok, I am gonna come out and say it and risk the wrath of those who would label me an unbeliever for questioning the wisdom of how RED designs their cameras but.....

Is the problem, at least in part, due to the very touchy, sensitive, and somewhat esoteric nature of the cameras needing a black shading calibration by necessity in what can only be described as ever increasing permutations of complexity. i.e resolution change (maybe not), shutter, temperature (variable). and now some say go hot, some say go cold....

Can I echo Zebs request for a final once and for all final word on best practice regarding BS in relation to all permutations that might affect the image...Please...Epic is old enough now, Dragon has been out for a while now in 2 forms already. Is there no definitive on this or is, (as has been suggested), the Dragon now a 250ISO sensor and you manage noise this way now?
 
RED should say something about this issue as soon as possible, IMHO.

In the meantime, BS at 24 fps and 1/400 to shoot at 24 fps and 1/48 has worked best for me with new OLPF and latest firmware updates.
 
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