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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

To be clear...

Totally fair!

But I recently encountered this:
I talked with a friend who's a RED One owner and when I told him I am awaiting my chance for an -M and waiting for my turn for an -X stage 2, he'd whine and piss and moan about RED not being flexible with the One to Epic stages and all because he somehow missed the chance to join in on Stage 2...
aaaaaargh! I wanted to tear off my ears!
But I tried to listen in and understand what may have gone wrong.
Turns out that guy upgraded the sensor to MX but missed on the whole "Stages" thing by not visiting the forums.

sigh...

Jim I think when someone makes a purchase, be it a One, an Epic or a Scarlet (or any future product) they should sign and verbally repeat after you (or a bomb squad rep) that they will regularly keep an eye on the forums for all apparent reasons and any unforeseeable at the time of purchase.

I for one hope I am a good customer :001_smile: (always a bit insecure but that's my problem)
 
Fair deal

Fair deal

Incredibly fair. I want to share my experience with upgrade program. When first announced, the offer was to trade Red One toward Epic brain, for a trade in cost of around $10K. I pointed out on this forum (one of my only whines), that buying the modules needed to make the Epic equivalent to Red one would make the trade cost more like $27K.

Within two days, it was announced that the trade ins would include enough modules to function like the Red One. I don't pretend it was my idea, or that my individual post pushed anything in particular, but it was clear at that moment Red was really listening. What they may have lost in potential short term revenue, they have gained in creating a dedicated user base. No matter what, I'll always have a Red in the quiver. I've owned quite a few cameras over the years, starting with film. Never have I seen a group of people as dedicated and creative as Red, inventing tools that completely smoke the competition.

Thanks, Jim
 
Gregory Karydis said:
aaaaaargh! I wanted to tear off my ears!
But I tried to listen in and understand what may have gone wrong.
Turns out that guy upgraded the sensor to MX but missed on the whole "Stages" thing by not visiting the forums.
Click to expand...

That would also imply he missed the stage info that was also emailed to the email address on file for the owner of that camera. The stage info, including the stage-2 discount on the MX upgrade, was mentioned in the MX upgrade notification emails. ...Just sayin'. So also sayin' that more had to go wrong than simply not visiting the forums.

As pointed out by others, there are times when people don't visit the forums due to a language barrier. I can understand that, somewhat. But I think most people who own the camera realize (or should) is that this is still the primary repository for all RED information. On the surface, it's just another chaotic internet forum, but there's a treasure trove of real information here, posted by real working professionals who use the cameras every day in a variety of situations. The information is not hard to find if one takes a few minutes to look. And for those times when you just gotta have results now, you can use google.

I see comments here and there that the info is hard to find. That RED needs a wiki or a dedicated blog or something else... Those other forms have been tried more than once within the RED community and have not taken off. To be blunt, they don't simplify things a whole lot and are more likely to lead to stagnant information. I would love to find a way to make searching through these forums easier, I really would. But I honestly don't know how that could be done. For starters, it's already pretty damn easy if you know how to really use all the search tools at our fingertips. Both here on the forums and in sites like Google or Bing. Most all the important information on these forums is consolidated here in Recon -- Jim's Thoughts and Tips sticky thread is a great place to start. The Crucial Ordnance forum is also great reading and all those threads are locked, only showing the key information and then a link to further discussion if needed.

As Brook said several posts back, people using RED who don't visit these forums are not doing so because they have made a decision not to. Plain and simple. I've encountered such people myself. And for many of them, they just do not know what they're missing out on. I've encountered a few who still run ancient firmware builds on their cameras (whatever the camera shipped with), don't know anything about Redcine-X or just never bothered to download and try it. Don't know anything about the MX sensor or potential upgrade and all that. It's rather amazing... There's a lot more FAIL going on there than simply not visiting the forums. That's complete head-in-the-sand right there. Sadly, a lot of it plays into the "good enough" factor. And the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" paradigm. They figured out how to make their RED One work for them with those older tools, using RedRushes, RedAlert, even the old Redcine.. And they never bothered to go looking for upgrades since it was just working for them. Here and there one of those guys will pop up on these forums after a sensor upgrade, trying to figure out why their MX footage is all green in RedAlert...
 
Last edited:
Jeff Kilgroe said:
That would also imply he missed the stage info that was also emailed to the email address on file for the owner of that camera. The stage info, including the stage-2 discount on the MX upgrade, was mentioned in the MX upgrade notification emails. ...Just sayin'. So also sayin' that more had to go wrong than simply not visiting the forums.

As pointed out by others, there are times when people don't visit the forums due to a language barrier. I can understand that, somewhat. But I think most people who own the camera realize (or should) is that this is still the primary repository for all RED information. On the surface, it's just another chaotic internet forum, but there's a treasure trove of real information here, posted by real working professionals who use the cameras every day in a variety of situations. The information is not hard to find if one takes a few minutes to look. And for those times when you just gotta have results now, you can use google.

I see comments here and there that the info is hard to find. That RED needs a wiki or a dedicated blog or something else... Those other forms have been tried more than once within the RED community and have not taken off. To be blunt, they don't simplify things a whole lot and are more likely to lead to stagnant information. I would love to find a way to make searching through these forums easier, I really would. But I honestly don't know how that could be done. For starters, it's already pretty damn easy if you know how to really use all the search tools at our fingertips. Both here on the forums and in sites like Google or Bing. Most all the important information on these forums is consolidated here in Recon -- Jim's Thoughts and Tips sticky thread is a great place to start. The Crucial Ordnance forum is also great reading and all those threads are locked, only showing the key information and then a link to further discussion if needed.

As Brook said several posts back, people using RED who don't visit these forums are not doing so because they have made a decision not to. Plain and simple. I've encountered such people myself. And for many of them, they just do not know what they're missing out on. I've encountered a few who still run ancient firmware builds on their cameras (whatever the camera shipped with), don't know anything about Redcine-X or just never bothered to download and try it. Don't know anything about the MX sensor or potential upgrade and all that. It's rather amazing... There's a lot more FAIL going on there than simply not visiting the forums. That's complete head-in-the-sand right there. Sadly, a lot of it plays into the "good enough" factor. And the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" paradigm. They figured out how to make their RED One work for them with those older tools, using RedRushes, RedAlert, even the old Redcine.. And they never bothered to go looking for upgrades since it was just working for them. Here and there one of those guys will pop up on these forums after a sensor upgrade, trying to figure out why their MX footage is all green in RedAlert...
Click to expand...

Totally agree. While I don't work on big sets like some of the guys here, I have a super busy writing schedule, travel tons, and still manage to check in on Reduser every day.

And in terms of being having difficulty finding things ... I don't get it. Yes, there's a lot of "noise" that doesn't come from Red (though I think that perspective is partly a lack of respect for others here on the board, for the most part the people here are extremely knowledgable) ..... however, it's also soooooooo easy to just search for Jim and Jarred's posts. I do that each day in fact, just to make sure I don't miss anything :)

Overall, I think the forum is laid out really well and there's not much to change. This place rocks and if anyone can show me a more exciting, more informative/helpful, more thriving community in the film or photography world than this -- I'm all ears :bigear:

Anthony
 
Gregory Karydis said:
Totally fair!

But I recently encountered this:
I talked with a friend who's a RED One owner and when I told him I am awaiting my chance for an -M and waiting for my turn for an -X stage 2, he'd whine and piss and moan about RED not being flexible with the One to Epic stages and all because he somehow missed the chance to join in on Stage 2...
aaaaaargh! I wanted to tear off my ears!
But I tried to listen in and understand what may have gone wrong.
Turns out that guy upgraded the sensor to MX but missed on the whole "Stages" thing by not visiting the forums.

sigh...

Jim I think when someone makes a purchase, be it a One, an Epic or a Scarlet (or any future product) they should sign and verbally repeat after you (or a bomb squad rep) that they will regularly keep an eye on the forums for all apparent reasons and any unforeseeable at the time of purchase.

I for one hope I am a good customer :001_smile: (always a bit insecure but that's my problem)
Click to expand...

Well, on the other side, you still have the stage 3 option, were you can turn in the camera as a trade and get the very same
Epic-X package as all of us in stage II, so I think that there is still a winner in you... ;)

Also there could still be a possibility for RED to allow for stage 3 to keep the cameras us we did in stage II... just saying, no one
I know of al RED ONE Owners is loosing with RED... ;)
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
Well, on the other side, you still have the stage 3 option, were you can turn in the camera as a trade and get the very same
Epic-X package as all of us in stage II, so I think that there is still a winner in you... ;)

Also there could still be a possibility for RED to allow for stage 3 to keep the cameras us we did in stage II... just saying, no one
I know of al RED ONE Owners is loosing with RED... ;)
Click to expand...

You are correct Ketch, sometime I think people seem to be a bit lazy or just give up to easily...It sounds like they did not even try and research what options they have...a pitty really, as there is still time for them to get an EPIC soon...
 
Gregory Karydis said:
But I tried to listen in and understand what may have gone wrong.
Turns out that guy upgraded the sensor to MX but missed on the whole "Stages" thing by not visiting the forums.

Jim I think when someone makes a purchase, be it a One, an Epic or a Scarlet (or any future product) they should sign and verbally repeat after you (or a bomb squad rep) that they will regularly keep an eye on the forums for all apparent reasons and any unforeseeable at the time of purchase.
Click to expand...

I'll chime in here, and I've said this before.

The forums are great - you can interact and get the attention of the guys at RED, from Jim on down, here. That's amazing. That's unprecedented. That's innovative. I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way.

But it shouldn't be *necessary* in order to get up-to-date information about deals and pricing.

For instance, on the RED store, where for EPIC it just says 'coming soon!', there should be (and have been for a long time) info about the stages, the ordering process, links to place an order for whatever stage, EPIC-M... all kept up to date as things change.

Ditto for *real* information about, for instance, the EVF, the saga, the availability. All the store shyly admits is there is 'limited availability'. That's like... the NASA report into Apollo 13, where they admitted to 'sub-optimal maintenance of structural integrity'. Translation: it <expletive deleted> exploded... :001_rolleyes: For goodness sake, give people an idea how long they'll have to wait. If it's a best guess, put error bars on it and make that clear. And keep it updated.

Basic business information like that, you shouldn't *have* to follow an informal internet forum to find. This is a great venue as I said, I wouldn't miss it for anything. But it being the ONLY place to find some crucial information... for me that's not 'innovative'; that's 'unprofessional'. Guys, I think you need to change this.

Mike
 
Ketch and Jeff; after I told the guy about Stage 3 and how it stands (for now) he got a little mad and a few days later he told me how pissed he was that he missed the deadline for stage 2.
There's no way to please some people, eh?

Even though I completely understand that I am in for the long run with Red, I find it rather hard to convey how Jim and Red do not "have" to do any of this. Not the forums, not the stages not anything and yet there's always people who get offered a finger and they want the whole arm.

Edit: as for the necessity or not of following the forums, that's the way it works.
Go for some other manufacturer, you just get a page with firmware updates (let's not get into the ever expanding list of features added to an already-complete product) and if you want to know about availability you'll have to contact one of the distributors who in turn will go through all the channels to find out if what you want is available.
The Red way is far better, streamlined by eliminating middle-men and to quote some other brand; just works!

Btw, better not completely derail this thread. If the issue is not resolved soon I'll suggest he calls his bomb squad rep again to see where he stands and what his options are.

Bottom line Jim it's all more than fair and I for one am happy to be part ot it in any little way I can.
 
... We only ask you to be a great customers. Fair deal?


No !
Let me be your customer first (want Red Princess Scarlet so bad), then I will be for sure.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
That would also imply he missed the stage info that was also emailed to the email address on file for the owner of that camera. The stage info, including the stage-2 discount on the MX upgrade, was mentioned in the MX upgrade notification emails. ...Just sayin'. So also sayin' that more had to go wrong than simply not visiting the forums.

As pointed out by others, there are times when people don't visit the forums due to a language barrier. I can understand that, somewhat. But I think most people who own the camera realize (or should) is that this is still the primary repository for all RED information. On the surface, it's just another chaotic internet forum, but there's a treasure trove of real information here, posted by real working professionals who use the cameras every day in a variety of situations. The information is not hard to find if one takes a few minutes to look. And for those times when you just gotta have results now, you can use google.

I see comments here and there that the info is hard to find. That RED needs a wiki or a dedicated blog or something else... Those other forms have been tried more than once within the RED community and have not taken off. To be blunt, they don't simplify things a whole lot and are more likely to lead to stagnant information. I would love to find a way to make searching through these forums easier, I really would. But I honestly don't know how that could be done. For starters, it's already pretty damn easy if you know how to really use all the search tools at our fingertips. Both here on the forums and in sites like Google or Bing. Most all the important information on these forums is consolidated here in Recon -- Jim's Thoughts and Tips sticky thread is a great place to start. The Crucial Ordnance forum is also great reading and all those threads are locked, only showing the key information and then a link to further discussion if needed.

As Brook said several posts back, people using RED who don't visit these forums are not doing so because they have made a decision not to. Plain and simple. I've encountered such people myself. And for many of them, they just do not know what they're missing out on. I've encountered a few who still run ancient firmware builds on their cameras (whatever the camera shipped with), don't know anything about Redcine-X or just never bothered to download and try it. Don't know anything about the MX sensor or potential upgrade and all that. It's rather amazing... There's a lot more FAIL going on there than simply not visiting the forums. That's complete head-in-the-sand right there. Sadly, a lot of it plays into the "good enough" factor. And the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" paradigm. They figured out how to make their RED One work for them with those older tools, using RedRushes, RedAlert, even the old Redcine.. And they never bothered to go looking for upgrades since it was just working for them. Here and there one of those guys will pop up on these forums after a sensor upgrade, trying to figure out why their MX footage is all green in RedAlert...
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's all nice - in theory. If only there weren't so many useless nothing-contributing responses to every post by the RED team. Seriously, sifting through the forums is ridiculously painful. Some of us work, we have children, choose to spend free time in many various different ways other than try to find useful info by having to skip through pages and pages of junk while looking for the few informative and important pieces of info in-between. Ideally, there would be a way of sorting through everything and only showing posts by Red. Frankly, little other is of any consequence other than lost time. I suspect that some of the people who don't come here simply got tired and fed up by trying.
 
Jiri said:
Ideally, there would be a way of sorting through everything and only showing posts by Red
Click to expand...
Hi Jiri,

I can understand your frustration though I thought I might quickly mention that you can fly through threads if you are only looking for posts from red members. Just click on the red team button next to the thread tool up top. This will take you to the first Red Team post. From there that post will be linked to the next red team post and so on.

Hope that helps somewhat :)
 
Brad Allen said:
Hi Jiri,

I can understand your frustration though I thought I might quickly mention that you can fly through threads if you are only looking for posts from red members. Just click on the red team button next to the thread tool up top. This will take you to the first Red Team post. From there that post will be linked to the next red team post and so on.

Hope that helps somewhat :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip!
 
Generally, the most important bits of information can be found in RECON. All the other important bits can be found by clicking the RED Team logo next to each RED Team member.
And...anything else can be learned by calling your rep.

So, how exactly can you say you didn't know now again? Checking once a week is enough to keep you up-to-date. Something to think about moving forward...
 
-

-

Harcharan Singh said:
( Do they check their mails for informations on upgrades , firmwares and new products....they may have missed their stage 2 offer)

Well I cannot sleep if i do not visit REDUSER forum everyday and with the EPIC excitement picking up it has become more necessary..maybe I am addicted...
Harcharan
Click to expand...

there are doctors specialized for such cases...
:arf:
 
I would love nothing more to be a great customer - tell me when you are ready to have me (with an Epic-S) ;)

Also I hope you don´t mean "blindly follow the leader" kind of customer because as an east german kid growing up under one regime having a heavy history of another authority and critically of the current order I will not obey to any ordinance and will reserve my right to constructively critique and talk open and honestly if I feel the need to - I hope you can value that as much as I value your openness.

With that out of the way - I love the whole approach of RED I love the whole idea of this rouge company disrupting the status quo and I thank you deeply that you put your money and time on the line to feed a generation of rebel movie makers as well as make life easier for the established ones.
 
Jiri Bakala said:
Yeah, that's all nice - in theory. If only there weren't so many useless nothing-contributing responses to every post by the RED team. Seriously, sifting through the forums is ridiculously painful. Some of us work, we have children, choose to spend free time in many various different ways other than try to find useful info by having to skip through pages and pages of junk while looking for the few informative and important pieces of info in-between. Ideally, there would be a way of sorting through everything and only showing posts by Red. Frankly, little other is of any consequence other than lost time. I suspect that some of the people who don't come here simply got tired and fed up by trying.
Click to expand...

Could not have said it better myself. It's frustrating having to browse thru all the; Great!, Whoa! and all other absolutley useless contributions. A "clean" forum with only useful info would be so much better.
 
magnus66 said:
Could not have said it better myself. It's frustrating having to browse thru all the; Great!, Whoa! and all other absolutley useless contributions. A "clean" forum with only useful info would be so much better.
Click to expand...
Maybe there could be a system where every post has a special flag in it that registers its content-worthiness, so members can set their accounts to ignore such posts if they so choose.

Or maybe they could offer the option of simply being able to ignore posts below a certain size or simply have the post editor refuse to accept them in the first place

Ideally, there would be an automated system that could keep track of the percentage of a member's posts that get marked as time-wasters, and people with a consistently good record would eventually be exempted from the system, since not all short posts are useless. Also, the moderators would have the power to grant or remove exempt status of course.
 
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