The Window Effect - Immersive Viewing

[Phil Holland]

Good evening all,

One question I've been asked constantly over the years is exactly where we see the advantage of 2K, 4K, and 8K. At NAB 2015 I was probably asked about 8K and my thoughts on where the industry is going with all of this two dozen times. So in between shoots I thought I'd jot some of my thoughts down with a few hard numbers that should help explain not just my POV, but also some of the reasons the industry is migrating towards 4K and 8K as well as some of the future technology on the horizon.

I've done this in 4 images. Hopefully this is concise enough to show to Clients, Studios, Directors, and Producers. I also tossed in the relevant image circles of Dragon and Film Formats for handy reference.

An Introduction



DCI, UHD, and Print Resolutions



Cinema, Broadcast, and Devices



Image Circle / Lens Coverage



I've also created a downloadable PDF version of the above in glorious printable 300 DPI.
Downloadable Higher Resolution PDF


With RED Weapon 6K Dragon just a couple months away from being officially released and Weapon 8K Dragon shortly thereafter I thought this was a good time to write up a few useful things.

Hope it's useful for you all.

 

[luigivaltulini]

Phil, THANK YOU, you're magnificent

I have to make a poster of this

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Hey Phil,

Thanks for the great overview. As always, a great resource for all of us. Oh, HD looks so very small indeed...

M

 

[PatrickFaith]

Thanks much Phil. I really like how you brought in DPI, just yesterday i was copying something and picked 600 dpi since the text looked better to me(like it was originally typed). In my brain somewhere I think 600 dpi is close to original and doesn't tire my eyes, and now i have a chart that helps me correlate that to weapon resolutions. If anything the "as good as real" concept should be approached by 8k on narrow field of views (i.e. current cinema screens). Another thing I noticed on the charts is the "old" concept is people are fixed in locations, but I've noticed when i'm working with 6k+ screens that people can start moving around and still have a good experience(i.e. i would change the THX SA values i think for 8k).

 

[Erich Roland]

Useful Graphics. Thanks much

 

[Daniel Murphy]

Phil

This is amazing! So helpful.

The effort it takes to produced this guide is beyond 'Call of Duty' but greatly appreciated.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Awesome stuff as always, Phil!

Here's my TL;DR summary:

IVD = Ideal Viewing Distance (sweet spot for binocular vision comfort)
HIA = Human Ideal Acuity Distance (how close you have to be to see the pixels)
SA = Shortest Allowed Viewing Distance (closer that this and the image is wider than your binocular vision allows)

Of course SA < IVD, and in a perfect world, SA would be slightly less than HIA (meaning that sitting too close you can still see the whole screen, but perhaps over-resolve the pixels) and IVD would be > HIA (meaning that not only can you see the whole screen in a relaxed way, but you cannot resolve pixels, just the "window" into the scene).

DCI 8K Projection: IVD 3.2x > HIA and SA 70% > HIA (which means 8K is overkill for full-frame experiences).
DCI 4K Projection: IVD 75% > HIA, but SA 15% < HIA (4K nicely matched to practical human vision)
DCI 2K Projection: IVD 15% < HIA, and SA 2.4x < HIA (2K not satisfactory for pixel-peepers)

UHD 8K Devices: IVD 3x > HIA and SA 60% > HIA (which means 8K is overkill for full-frame experiences)
UHD 4K Devices: IVD 50% > HIA and SA 20% < HIA (n.b. typo in Phil's chart -- 0.8 should be 0.4 for 640 ppi SA)
HD 1080p Devices: IVD 25% < HIA and SA 2.6x < HIA (2K not satisfactory for pixel-peepers)

Note also that in the DCI 2K / HD 1080p cases, LR (Longest Recommended) is closer to the screen(s) than HIA can resolve, meaning that to have a pixel-free experience, one must sit so far away from the screen that the "window effect" (filling the eyes with the screen) becomes compromised.

So, for the best full-screen experience, 4K is a winner. 8K 4:2:2 gives you 2x the screen real-estate without any practical visual acuity loss (assuming people want to see the whole screen, not just a fraction of it).

That's what I got out of Phil's chart.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Phil you are the best... You just keep giving and giving......

 

[Brett Reynolds]

Very cool...Thank You!

 

[Akin A]

Thanks! Very useful for my own knowledge, but as you said, it will come in handy for explaining to others.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

I think he's being secretly awarded by his camera...everything he points it at is amazing. Whereas everything I point my camera at is just...well....meh. :emote_happyhappy:

Many thanks Phil for your dedication to the craft and us redusers. Imparting the wisdom you've gained through the years is truly priceless. :attention9ha:

 

[Elsie N]

Thanks for the PDF Phil. Having that to refer to rather than try to remember it all is a big load off my mind. '-)

 

[Phil Holland]

Cheers and thank you guys. Also, that's Micheal for catching that bloody typo.

Phil you are the best... You just keep giving and giving......

Thanks Peter. Over time I've seen a lot of crazy, especially in the early days of 4K coming to the digital cinema cameras and displays in particular. Just a few years ago the merits of what could be achieved with higher resolution display technology were bashed by some "prominently visible industry personalities". Now literally most of those voices are shooting 4K, which is more or less silly pants.

Even more fascinating is when concepts and technology like Dolby Vision were released there were voices that said "we need HDR, not Resolution!". Also, silly pants. Mostly because in practice and viewing this is more of an exercise of needing and developing both things.

Back at the old studio when we acquired the 2K digital projector I did some tests with static and animated pixel and multi-pixel patterns and varied my distance from the screen. Then opened that up to others to acquire a bit of data.

The interesting things that spawned from that research helped me understand the THX Recommendations clearer. However, there were individuals depending on age, "alertness", and even anatomy that preferred being closer to the screen than recommended, which was interesting. These are general guidelines really. And of course different display sizes exist outside of the above dimensions.

When I think about the printed image for so long 300 DPI has been the average high quality target with 400-600 DPI art books occasionally being made, and they look lovely. There's a contingent who has been pushing for a 1200 DPI print standard for a while and we'll likely see that happen in the near-ish future. I personally think for larger venues and the largest of screens a bit more resolution could be nice. So that 1280 PPI target might be on the distant horizon.

Years ago with two different 4 letter companies I heard "4K in the home, 8K in the theater" a handful of times. However, 8K is going to be coming quicker than people expect. There's already a laptop sized display that exceeds 640 PPI, just needs a smidge of hardware to help drive it.

In many of the conversations over the years frame rate came up as well, but I've left this out of this particular document because I strongly feel a project's timebase is as important to "the feel" as lens selection really. UHD and DCI specs give us the 24-60fps playground. However, there will be a push for 120fps 8K before 2020 for certain applications. After seeing Tennis and NBA matches/games in 60fps UHD 4K I can certainly say I enjoyed the heck out of that. However, movies are not sports in the sense of how we watch or experience them.

Exciting times really. For me "this whole thing" is actually more about 4K and 8K because of Super 35mm and VistaVision really. Where I came from 2K was Super 16mm and still is really.


Total side note. Jim once stated around the time of Dragon's release that the next important steps will truly be pixel design. I tend to agree with him in a lot of ways on this. This could be referring too the pixel dimensions or even the sensor technology behind that pixel being created. For the filmmaker in many ways this 5K/Super 35mm 3-Perf format on Dragon is just so ideal. On the smaller sensors we are seeing some interesting pixel quality things mostly related to how they are created and having super small pixel pitches. By over sampling, even outside of the concept of demosiacing a Bayer pattern image, you are "shrinking" some of the lens artifacts themselves which results in a higher quality image. Through up-scaling or using a smaller high resolution sensor you are magnifying those effects. That's some interesting food for thought and for many that thought never comes up.

All of this makes me wonder exactly where this all will go. We'll certainly see smaller 4K and 8K sensors. I'm personally a Super 35mm, VistaVision, and "beyond" shooter and that's my voice 99% for stills and motion. Happily, REDs hitting that ball square on with Dragon.

 

[Brad Grimm]

Phil, perhaps you may be able to answer this, will our current Mounts work with the new 8K sensor?

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, perhaps you may be able to answer this, will our current Mounts work with the new 8K sensor?

heh. Not a terribly random question. All current DSMC Lens Mounts will be compatible with 8K from what I understand.

I can see the Motion Mount however maybe needing an update as the liquid crystal shutter will likely have to be larger.

But your Canon, Nikon, Leica, and PL are designed to those specifications and "life is good".

 

[Brad Grimm]

heh. Not a terribly random question. All current DSMC Lens Mounts will be compatible with 8K from what I understand.

I can see the Motion Mount however maybe needing an update as the liquid crystal shutter will likely have to be larger.

But your Canon, Nikon, Leica, and PL are designed to those specifications and "life is good".

Fantastic. Thanks!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Thanks for sharing this Phil... An other great summary of avery important aspect of our Industry!!

 

[Uros Zuraj]

Phil is it possible to get this in poster size printable files. would love to have few of this on the walls
just ordered FOG few days ago

 

[Matt Ryan]

Phil is it possible to get this in poster size printable files. would love to have few of this on the walls
just ordered FOG few days ago

600dpi would be ideal ;-)

Thanks Phil as always!

 

[Corey_O]

However, there will be a push for 120fps 8K before 2020 for certain applications. After seeing Tennis and NBA matches/games in 60fps UHD 4K I can certainly say I enjoyed the heck out of that.

Hockey IMO is the sport that would benefit the most with HFR and 8k but agree all sports will be better.

Thanks Phil