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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Window Effect - Immersive Viewing

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  • #21
Uros Zuraj said:
Phil is it possible to get this in poster size printable files. would love to have few of this on the walls :)
just ordered FOG few days ago :)
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Let me think about that for a second. The PDF is 300 DPI and would print fairly nicely for a small poster.


Matt Ryan said:
600dpi would be ideal ;-)

Thanks Phil as always!
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Heh. I recall one odd 600 DPI job ages ago while working on The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Variety was doing a single and double page spread on the film and we also wanted something that could turn into a nice poster. We did a quick thumbnail/storyboard for Aslan's pose to get approval as this image wasn't going to come from the film. We then rendered him out at an insanely high resolution. I think he himself was 10K tall. I then went out into the valley and hiked around for a beautiful landscape with my old PhaseOne P25 and shot a new background plate and stitched several images together. More or less making something closer to 10X8" as a format, then composited it all together. There's a nice 8 foot print of that somewhere and it is astounding. Had to go in and paint new reflections in Aslan's pupils to match the background. Just made the print deadline.

The largest image I've made to date for any film was on Fast & Furious (the 4th film). That opening tanker truck scene features a 2 Gigapixel image that was scaled down even for the software to handle to help "spritz up" that road and canyon a bit. Same road used for final chase in Drive if you're curious.


Corey_O said:
Hockey IMO is the sport that would benefit the most with HFR and 8k but agree all sports will be better.

Thanks Phil
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You and my buddy Mike would agree on that for sure. I'm betting 60p and maybe 120p would be slick for that. 60p is happening right now for sports in 4K for sure. I think you'll see it used a lot for some of the early sport/olympic related 8K stuff as well.
 
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  • #23
I vote Phil Holland as RedUsers "Man of the Year".....already.

Thanks Phil. Awesome post as always.
 
Thanks for giving and giving and now I hate to even ask but....
Phil thank you for the format spec's. It will really help the brain trust's I deal with to understand where all this format stuff lays and where it is going.

Do you have any specs on the actual Weapon body? Is the distance from the bottom of the camera to where the center of the lens mount is the same as Epic cameras??? trying to get a feeling for what may work as far as risers and dovetail mounts, studio spacing vs light weight, along with what Ill need to transition smoothly in to the new camera as I will probably take delivery and put it right back in the field and want to make that transition as quick and smoothly as possible.
Would hate to show up on the other side of the world and not be able to use or support some of my longer lenses or not be able to mount something.
Maybe a separate thread on just the shape and size of the camera footprint and all dimensions and mounting holes etc etc...
Thank you again for all the work you do for us and to help everyone understand our cameras better.
 
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Martin Stevens said:
I vote Phil Holland as RedUsers "Man of the Year".....already.

Thanks Phil. Awesome post as always.
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Thanks for that Martin. This community is important to me as is this industry.


Russ Fill said:
Thanks for giving and giving and now I hate to even ask but....
Phil thank you for the format spec's. It will really help the brain trust's I deal with to understand where all this format stuff lays and where it is going.

Do you have any specs on the actual Weapon body? Is the distance from the bottom of the camera to where the center of the lens mount is the same as Epic cameras??? trying to get a feeling for what may work as far as risers and dovetail mounts, studio spacing vs light weight, along with what Ill need to transition smoothly in to the new camera as I will probably take delivery and put it right back in the field and want to make that transition as quick and smoothly as possible.
Would hate to show up on the other side of the world and not be able to use or support some of my longer lenses or not be able to mount something.
Maybe a separate thread on just the shape and size of the camera footprint and all dimensions and mounting holes etc etc...
Thank you again for all the work you do for us and to help everyone understand our cameras better.
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From what I understand and have seen the distance from the base of the Weapon brain to the optical center remains the same. The camera front to bolt dimensions are also the same. The Weapon body itself is shorter so some "designed for Epic/Scarlet" plates stick out in the rear a bit. I don't see any issues as on Weapon that area is now just where the exhaust of the ventilation system is.

Where people will find a bit of the head scratching moments is the top of Weapon. Weapon itself has an integrated cheese plate on the top of the camera brain and thus far we haven't seen anybody design a new Top plate yet if they desire more mounting points (I bet somebody will do that, however, hopefully with electronic pass through of the top "cableless" LCD/EVF connection and the new Weapon Top Handle connection ports).

The good thing about having that cheese plate built in is that it saves on camera height and weight. And that seems to be one of the major concepts behind the Weapon Carbon Fiber and Magnesium designs overall.
 
Phil Holland said:
Heh Ketch. I teach at a university on Sundays (The Gnomon School of Visual Effects) and have been for a while. Kind of fits I guess. Just no "Doctor Phil" stuff. I'll cry unicorn tears.
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Yeah I knew that... Actually love what you doing there!! But LOL... No don't worry I would have not gone with the "Doctor Phil" either... :)
 
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  • #30
Resolution. Color. Dynamic Range.

A couple of "hot off the press" articles worth looking at.

"Fox to Be First Studio to Create All Movies in High Dynamic Range, Ultra HD for Home Viewing "
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/fox-be-first-studio-create-796952

"Ultra HD Blu-ray Spec Completed, Consumer Products Expected Later This Year"
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/ultra-hd-blu-ray-spec-794961


Curious to see how HDR penetrates streaming services like Netflix as well.
 
Phil Holland said:
Curious to see how HDR penetrates streaming services like Netflix as well.
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Vudu announced plans to stream Dolby Vision at NAB. They had it running in the booth to the Vizio R65. Others will launch both Dolby Vision HDR as well as other versions of HDR in the near future. I have seen HDR streamed to a Samsung display (SUHD) that was not Dolby Vision.

I posted this in another thread, but since you brought up HDR, seems like another good place to post this PDF on HDR.
 
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  • #33
Stacey Spears said:
Vudu announced plans to stream Dolby Vision at NAB. They had it running in the booth to the Vizio R65. Others will launch both Dolby Vision HDR as well as other versions of HDR in the near future. I have seen HDR streamed to a Samsung display (SUHD) that was not Dolby Vision.

I posted this in another thread, but since you brought up HDR, seems like another good place to post this PDF on HDR.
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That's actually a pretty great whopping 50 page document Stacey and explains so much about the direction of all of this. The interesting and relevant note about resolution and HDR being tied together is important and I'm glad they hinted at that when it comes to Rec.2020.

This is actually one reason I'm really happy that HDRx remained in Dragon (if you remember back then it was initially not coming to Dragon), but RED figured it out and it's important to have access to it now. HDR as a display technology will be delivered with various cameras capable of recording various levels of Dynamic Range. At the moment we can get up to about 22-ish stops of Dynamic Range with HDRx on Dragon if using the max 6 stops. More typical use is 1-4 stops really to avoid common motion artifacts. But it's nice to have a camera that we can capture "more" with to explore delivering more.

8K and HDRx should be interesting. Though I think if that's even possible we'll be tapping out at about 30fps for 8K FF perhaps? Or maybe, since Weapon has more horses under the hood, there might be a way to get better frame rates with HDRx enabled perhaps. Huh. Actually now that I think of it, if the bandwidth is better overall we'll have maybe lower REDCODE RAW compression ratios with HDRx on Weapon maybe. Time will tell.
 
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  • #34
Russ Fill said:
My mind is resting now with out the thought of how much more hardware Ill need and when Ill need it.
Tk's again Phil
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Much of my thoughts at the moment are how to "drive" an 8K display. I can playback 8K material in various codecs, but the connectors and standards aren't totally there yet. Same for media type.

4K is more or less figured out at this point for "everywhere" and we're about to see a slew of new 4K hardware coming to the market. Though I think this Ultra HD Blu-ray spec that has been "hammered down" now should have included provisions for 8K honestly. At least on the media and in authoring. Who knows. It might even. If nothing else it's something to work on for the next 2-3 years and get right.

The good news for us on the production and post side is the hardware demands for just generally working with 8K RED material aren't hugely more demanding than 6K.
 
Phil Holland said:
This is actually one reason I'm really happy that HDRx remained in Dragon (if you remember back then it was initially not coming to Dragon), but RED figured it out and it's important to have access to it now.
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While I don't disagree with you at all, I would say that we have been capturing more dynamic range than we can view even without HDRx. With that said, I am aware of some HDR demo material that used a pair of Alexa's in a 3D mirror rig to capture a lot of dynamic range.

I don't think higher resolution by itself is enough to move anyone, but when you combine higher resolution with a wider color gamut and higher dynamic range, you have a chance to do something really special. At HPA, one DP quested how he would use HDR to improve the story. While I get that side of it, does it really matter? Can't the image just look better for no other reason than to just look better? :-)

After viewing HDR, it takes me a few days to acclimate back to SDR and how flat it really is. My first experience with Dolby Vision was a couple of years ago and I was highly skeptical at the time. I had thought they had cooked the SDR to make it look worse. After spending personal time with HDR, I realize that was not the case. I almost feel that you should be shown high quality SDR first and then once you agree it looks good, uncover the HDR display.
 
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Stacey Spears said:
While I don't disagree with you at all, I would say that we have been capturing more dynamic range than we can view even without HDRx. With that said, I am aware of some HDR demo material that used a pair of Alexa's in a 3D mirror rig to capture a lot of dynamic range.

I don't think higher resolution by itself is enough to move anyone, but when you combine higher resolution with a wider color gamut and higher dynamic range, you have a chance to do something really special. At HPA, one DP quested how he would use HDR to improve the story. While I get that side of it, does it really matter? Can't the image just look better for no other reason than to just look better? :-)

After viewing HDR, it takes me a few days to acclimate back to SDR and how flat it really is. My first experience with Dolby Vision was a couple of years ago and I was highly skeptical at the time. I had thought they had cooked the SDR to make it look worse. After spending personal time with HDR, I realize that was not the case. I almost feel that you should be shown high quality SDR first and then once you agree it looks good, uncover the HDR display.
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The most effective demo I've seen lately was at the Panasonic building on the 5th floor in a dark office. They had two televisions next to each other in one room showing the same content side by side. One was a SDR displays available right now, the other was an HDR prototype display. The content wasn't "dumbed down" for the SDR display and the prototype was indeed more "interesting". However, since it was a prototype it wasn't all the way there just yet. And they faced a similar problem a lot of display manufacturers are facing, getting clean and crisp blacks. I've seen a better Dolby Vision demo that didn't exhibit this too much, but I'm sure by the time HDR displays hit the market this little kink will be worked out.
 
Oh wow! Phil Thanks. This is very thouhtful and helpful
 
Phil Holland, I want to say that your pdf. on the 8K, 6K, 5K gives a great way of visualizing and compare different resolutions and other things that will come in the near future, I just wanted to say “Thank You” for all the hard work you have done for Red and its Customers. Sometimes when I get up early in the morning, I sit with my cup of coffee and stare at them; it’s a great reference tool, again; thanks. I would think that’s something that Red would have done, but I guess they have their hands full with making a great camera, and you have a very nice way of interpreting their information into an understandable format. Since I saw the “temporary nature” of your pdf. file I thought that it would be nice if you would put on there a 7K line on the graphics as well, just to see were 6K and 8K would fall, for those people that would shoot 8K with a 7K crop for whatever their reason, but you did GREAT JOB nonetheless, thanks.

http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/reduser/phfx_immersiveViewing.pdf

Humberto Rivera
 
Humberto Rivera said:
Phil Holland, I want to say that your pdf. on the 8K, 6K, 5K gives a great way of visualizing and compare different resolutions and other things that will come in the near future, I just wanted to say “Thank You” for all the hard work you have done for Red and its Customers. Sometimes when I get up early in the morning, I sit with my cup of coffee and stare at them; it’s a great reference tool, again; thanks.
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Inspired by Phil's work, here's the chart I created for my coffee breaks:

RED_ImageCircles.png


Link to SVG file is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_VSlRMCBrwCZGpzZ21LWnFUNUU&authuser=0
 
Michael Tiemann said:
Inspired by Phil's work, here's the chart I created for my coffee breaks:

RED_ImageCircles.png


Link to SVG file is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_VSlRMCBrwCZGpzZ21LWnFUNUU&authuser=0
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Liking this with the ARRI 65 and IMAX included just from a personal standpoint.

Of course some big expensive shoots will pay the enormous price for the ARRI 65 rental, but big shoots will also choose to shoot Weapon because of their own preferences... and mid-sized and budget minded projects can see how close the more affordable (relatively speaking) Weapon 8k is and how little of a jump it is from there to IMAX.

At these enormous sizes, it is all about perspective... perspective like I could sell my house, land, royalties and current equipment and still could not buy an ARRI 65. I can keep all those things (including the Weapon 8k that I now consider to be my current equipment) and probably get about as close to IMAX as the ARRI 65, if shot with high precision.
 
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