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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Jarred Land said:
It is the " I talked to a bunch of people and we all collectively feel left out " which pushed me over the edge..

That takes it from one persons opinion to a whole group of people that are unhappy...

which completely ruined my day. Not my day. My month. Actually... maybe my year.
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Jarred, I really do think that people have all the wrong opinions when they only listen to rumors. What you guys are giving us is a very well thought, "please everyone" scheme that can only and truly be understood when all the details are laid ahead and people start using their brains and do the correct math in order to understand what is going on.

Because not everybody that has a RED camera is on reduser, or if they are, they don't have time to go through all of this info, they simply don't get it and just go by the rumors.

And rumors are like a snow ball, they keep getting bigger and bigger and farther and farther away from the truth.

If the Dragon guys from Nicks group would just take in all the info and do the math to the dot I am sure they would have been appreciative and they would understand the incredible deal that is offered to them.

But when they hear just a rumor that some other guys are getting a better deal, they just go with that, no further research, no nothing.

So I think you shouldn't judge what people feel about RED only by this, as there are numerous other incredibly opposite points of view about RED that will help change everybody's perception in the end.

Just imagine the rumors created when all of this great redusers start shooting with all of those incredible Epic-Ws that will be out in the wild. RED perception will be changed forever, and as a reuduser I can't wait for that to come. We work in an industry were rumor is more powerful than fact, and that is just sad and I hope it will change soon.
 
Guys, what are you doing? I think RED is doing fantastic job. There's no other company that offers those generous upgrades. Definitely not in this bussiness. Technology is going forward fast these days.
 
Curt Pair said:
To Jarred, Brent AND all of the Dragon AND MX owners out there who are now undoubtedly affected!

I have buddies that are Dragon owners that were SUPER PSYCHED to jump! I still have an MX that I couldn't afford to jump to Dragon, and now was over the moon that I have a chance to go Epic-W with! I am so PROUD to be a Red shooter... and it sucks that some people ruin it for us all!

I appreciate what you guys do for us Jarred, Brent and the ARMY that stands behind you, arms crossed, ready for battle! I sincerely hope you reconsider! Need more Nutella?
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You mean all Dragon owners (not MX)
 
I was following this thread closely, I thought. Been away for a bit. Don't know what happened or whose complaining. But just wanted to pass on my best wishes and appreciation from down under. You guys make amazing cameras at incredible prices. Keep up the great work, you can't please everyone and some people are just turds (not saying anyone in particular... but there are turds out there).
 
Everyone has their opinion and their reaction to this turn of events. I have loved RED from the day I first pressed the power button on a RED ONE. Even though I have not been able to shoot as much as I have wanted the last 18 months or so, I remain a RED loyalist to the end and consider it a huge privilege to be able to stay on the RED train. I have also formed a very positive opinion of Nick on this forum so I imagine he meant no harm but was just hoping to "complain" politely.

In the end, I think the best thing for all of us here is to let this one stay between the parties in question and off of the forum. If you are effected by Jarred's decision, maybe the thing to do is communicate with him directly. Otherwise, I am quite sure Nick and he will work things out between them, privately.

Again, just one person's opinion.
 
Jarred Land said:
Epic Dragon guys upgrading to Epic-W doesn't help shorten the line at all, since they are not freeing up Scarlet-Ws. They would be taken care of after Scarlet-W guys anyways so it really has no effect.

Epic Dragon owners should not of had this Epic-W opportunity at all, it was a courtesy just so they didnt feel left out. But obviously that courtesy was missed, abused and somehow turned into entitlement.

Its actually better for you guys now.. Since this option is removed it will free up more Epic-Ws for more SW and MG Weapon and Carbon Weapon guys... who actually deserve this upgrade... so you all win by actually getting your cameras sooner.

But make no mistake... Im done bending over.

My team has worked the last 6 months with no sleep to the point of breakdowns and tremendous strain on their families trying to catch up with the backorder situation that we got ourselves into just to do right by our customers. We are taking a massive, massive financial hit with this Epic-W discount to those that have been waiting for way too long as Scarlet-W and free sensors to the Carbon weapon guys waiting too. Just because we feel bad about making you wait.

And guess what.. pretty much every other company also makes you wait. BM had an unexpected year and a half on their last camera, Arri's SXT is still an unexpected year and a half wait, list goes on. We are offering shit no other company would even think about. And some of you still bitch and complain.

So anyone that thinks that we are mistreating you and not doing our best to help you all.. please, please, please sell your cameras and go buy something else.
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Dang this sucks. I was getting really excited about the upgrade. Was looking forward to 8K. But with this development I'll probably just have to go to Epic-W another way and way down the road.

I'll just leave this here since I'm likely off the upgrade train now:

Dear Jarred and RED,

Thank you for pushing the envelope. Thank you for giving us options. Thank you for letting us upgrade or choose not too. Thank you for waiting on us hold overs on the Epic Dragon to potentially jump over. Thank you for giving me a tool that is literally the only camera I'd hold onto (well brand of camera) even after the fact instead of selling. Thank you for making a tool that I don't feel like I could really go in the field without. Thank you for making a camera that gets me excited daily to take out of the bag just like my old Bolex did. Cheers RED team. I love my Epic Dragon, it's weathered, been through avalanches, sand storms, and all over the world and still works like a charm. I love how RED feeds off its shooters and the shooters feed off RED. It's a really awesome thing to be apart of no matter which one i'm shooting on.

Best,
Jeffrey
 
Jarred Land said:
So anyone that thinks that we are mistreating you and not doing our best to help you all.. please, please, please sell your cameras and go buy something else.
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i may not post much, but i read often. throughout this past week and a half i have been greatly impressed by Jarred & RED's absolutely OUTRAGEOUS generosity. at the same time, i'm baffled by some people's negativity/ungratefulness. in my opinion, i feel like this whole thread should be completely filled with "holy ____ this is awesome!" and "i can't believe RED has done it once again" type of comments. the only negative thoughts portrayed should be, "dang, i can't afford the ______ upgrade now, but i hope to soon." does anyone else think it's crazy that the president of a company such as RED is even reading your comments and acctttuuuuaalllyyy responding?!?

anyway, i would've reached jarred's breaking point a long time ago. props for having such thick skin and for sincerely caring about his customers as if we were his family.

have loved my weapon CF, and further stoked that i can switch my S-W deposit in for an E-W 8K come oct 11th. definitely didn't think my 2nd camera would be 8K, let alone a helium.
 
Jarred Land said:
Didn't ruin it for you Robert.. Ill still take care of you. And you guys don't need to show signs of appreciation and all blow kisses.. you choosing RED is all we need and are grateful for.

It is the ones that think they are getting fucked because their free discount isn't free enough that can go fuck themselves.

And That's not directed to Nick. Nick is a great guy.. I love that dude. If it was just his opinion I would totally be fine with it just as many others have.

It is the " I talked to a bunch of people and we all collectively feel left out " which pushed me over the edge..

That takes it from one persons opinion to a whole group of people that are unhappy...

which completely ruined my day. Not my day. My month. Actually... maybe my year.
Click to expand...

Jarred, Brent, everyone...

being new to the RED World so far I have been pretty much of a silent bystander. Following everything that goes on here in this thread.
To be fair I cannot allow myself to have much on an opinion when it comes to the whole EPIC Dragon to Epic-W thing...but what I can say is this:

Early 2015 I have pre-ordered a BlackMagic Ursa Mini 4.6K - paid the whole thing upfront. Then I waited and waited...and waited.
Nothing happened. No one would answer my questions. Hell...I didn't even really know who to turn to in the first place.
From what I heard there where even threads being deleted from their forum when people asked what was going on (although I can't confirm that's true).
So almost a year later in March of this year I decided I've had enough and switched to RED...pre-ordered a Scarlet-W. Put down the deposit and I waited...
nothing happened. Meanwhile the URSA was released - without global shutter (as it was promised), without any comment as to why there was that monstrous delay.
Without an apology and most of all without any appreciation for their customers.
Now I'm not trying to trash BMD - what I'm saying is that after a while when waiting for the Scarlet-W got frustrating and I was starting to fear things where going down the same road - you guys at RED dropped a MASSIVE bomb: 10.000 Dollars/Euros discount on EPIC-W! TEN! THOUSAND!
Never in my life I had witnessed that much appreciation for my business or anyones as it happened here!
This was and is so much more as I could have ever dreamed of. And it lifts me and my business onto a whole different level.
All thanks to your team and you, Jarred.
And I went out and told people that 'I AM GETTING A TEN THOUSAND EUROS DISCOUNT ON MY EPIC-W'...most people didn't believe me because it was too good to be true.
These people - including me - now see RED in a whole different light than before.
RED clearly is NOT like every other company out there.
RED clearly is NOT driven by profit.
RED clearly IS unique.

So I guess what I really want to say with all these words I'm typing is:
All these people here. The people I've told about what you are doing for us. Myself - we all are more than happy.
We're excited, grateful and aware of the once-in-a-lifetime chance we're getting here.
Please let all this lighten up your mood instead of letting the stuff from the last 10 or so pages ruin your day, your month or even your year.
Damn..I couldn't fight the 'Friends' theme in my head while writing that.
 
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Marco Eisenbarth said:
Jarred, Brent, everyone...

being new to the RED World so far I have been pretty much of a silent bystander. Following everything that goes on here in this thread.
To be fair I cannot allow myself to have much on an opinion when it comes to the whole EPIC Dragon to Epic-W thing...but what I can say is this:

Early 2015 I have pre-ordered a BlackMagic Ursa Mini 4.6K - paid the whole thing upfront. Then I waited and waited...and waited.
Nothing happened. No one would answer my questions. Hell...I didn't even really know who to turn to in the first place.
From what I heard there where even threads being deleted from their forum when people asked what was going on (although I can't confirm that's true).
So almost a year later in March of this year I decided I've had enough and switched to RED...pre-ordered a Scarlet-W. Put down the deposit and I waited...
nothing happened. Meanwhile the URSA was released - without global shutter (as it was promised), without any comment as to why there was that monstrous delay.
Without an apology and most of all without any appreciation for their customers.
Now I'm not trying to trash BMD - what I'm saying is that after a while when waiting for the Scarlet-W got frustrating and I was starting to fear things where going down the same road - you guys at RED dropped a MASSIVE bomb: 10.000 Dollars/Euros discount on EPIC-W! TEN! THOUSAND!
Never in my life I had witnessed that much appreciation for my business or anyones as it happened here!
This was and is so much more as I could have ever dreamed of. And it lifts me and my business onto a whole different level.
All thanks to your team and you, Jarred.
And I went out and told people that 'I AM GETTING A TEN THOUSAND EUROS DISCOUNT ON MY EPIC-W'...most people didn't believe me because it was too good to be true.
These people - including me - now see RED in a whole different light than before.
RED clearly is NOT like every other company out there.
RED clearly is NOT driven by profit.
RED clearly IS unique.

So I guess what I really want to say with all these words I'm typing is:
All these people here. The people I've told about what you are doing for us. Myself - we all are more than happy.
We're excited, grateful and aware of the once-in-a-lifetime chance we're getting here.
Please let all this lighten up your mood instead of letting the stuff from the last 10 or so pages ruin your day, your months or even your year.
Damn..I couldn't fight the 'Friends' theme in my head while writing that.
Click to expand...

Very well put. I too couldn't avoid the Friends theme while reading Jarred's comment about his day, month and year.
 
Andrei Goaga said:
If the Dragon guys from Nicks group would just take in all the info and do the math to the dot I am sure they would have been appreciative and they would understand the incredible deal that is offered to them.

But when they hear just a rumor that some other guys are getting a better deal, they just go with that, no further research, no nothing.
Click to expand...

It's that, "Red's been generous in the past, but this time they must be screwing us!" thing.

You'd think they'd ask their reps before assuming that they're getting screwed. I'm sure the reps would pass on whatever beans Jarred has already spilled. My rep's usually gotten back to me within a day or so when I send him e-mail or leave him a voice message.
 
Jarred,

Ignore them.

There are many of us who get what is RED, its about passion for filmmakers, its about breaking rules and putting the best technology for cameras in as many cameras as you can.

Helium is extremely powerful, it pushes everything that is known about handling an image that is known. And I understand why you guys go into a crazy upgrade program. You want to make sure that everyone is enjoying the benefits of the best sensor technology out there, of the best camera system. When you create, you want to share. And we are not stupid to know that you are doing it at a tremendous price. This is a passion driven model not a bottom line decision. I am so happy RED is a private company with a lot of guts to carry a vision.

I had a small meeting this week with a friend of mine DP, who only shoots Alexa. I played him on RCX on an OLED 4K screen the still from Helium around Washington DC. Since he was not seeing my GUI I told him that these were stills from a new Nikon camera. He just praised the image over and over. How clean it was, how malleable, how correct the colours were, the skin-tone, everything was awesome. Then I told him that he was looking at Helium by RED. He immediately told me "I want these cameras for my next TV series, we start in January".

I also brought an awesome colourist same test, this is camera agnostic guy, with a lot of experience, after playing for 45 mins with the Helium stills; I literally had to stop him because he was having to much fun and we needed the room. I asked him "what do you think?" and he smiles and says "wow, goodbye arriraw".

So for those who do not get it, this camera does not only sell itself, it is literally shaking conceptions of what a camera can do by very talented people.

I feel confident enough to crash the set of Cuaron and ask them to rethink their Alexa 65 plan.
 
You guys are doing a really good job at convincing me to change my mind. Alex just sent me an email that I am going to hang on our wall.

Thank you all.
 
Jarred and RED team,
You are a big part of why our company is successful and why we were able to follow our dreams. The original RED changed everything for us and we have been with RED since the beginning in 2007. (serial 135 and 136). Today we have 3 epic Dragons and a Scarlett Dragon and we shoot RED 98% of the time....even when it's overkill for a project lol.... Please reconsider the upgrade path to the Epic-W so that we can continue living the dream! :) I am pretty sure that 90% of Red owners are all grateful and happy ones. Don't let a small group of users (and I am pretty sure they are a minority) ruin your year and ruin it for the majority of us. I know it's frustrating to hear complains but think of all the other owners who never voiced any complaining and bitching....that's because we are all happy shooting RED!....so busy and enjoying what we do that maybe sometimes we don't take enough time to say THANK YOU for everything you guys do!
 
I just want to take a second to express my gratitude to Jarred, Brent, and everyone at RED for the awesomeness ahead. The upgrade paths are fantastic, and the transparency and communication via the forums is truly one of a kind and strengthens the RED community.
 
OK - so here's the next thing... we all send KITTENS to Jarred!!! Anyone have the phone number for the ASPCA in Irvine? ;-)
 
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