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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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jarred/brent: if i have a woven upgrade (from epic-D) deposit in prior to 10/11, am i able to transition it to the weapon helium queue on 10/11, applying my deposit to the new upgrade path? pending thats possible, can i add the delta of the helium sensor upgrade to my order and just stay in line?

thanks!
 
John Shofner said:
Except you specifically asked which was closer between the Raven and the Scarlet... which means Phils answer is literally exactly what you asked for...
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oh shoot, i see how it reads now, but that is not what i meant, i was asking the overall question about any camera, then guessing if those two cameras actually had the closest to s35mm when at 4khd.
so still no one seems to be able to answer.
the reason i ask is because on my upcoming tv shows they do not want me to shoot in any resolution above 4khd, that's the mandate from viacom.
so seeing which camera gives me the closest to s35 in that resolution.
 
Matthew Quinn said:
this is super helpful Phil. that image looks great also.. where is that?
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If you refresh the page a few times, you'll see that it randomly fills from Phil's extraordinary clips. So "where is that" might be a little hard to answer.

Thanks again for the great great tool Phil. Based on Jarred's "Not a chance" comment about 40FPS at 8K, I have to imagine the Epic-W may be like the Scarlet-MX and only get stills (12FPS) at 8K but more standard shooting frame rates at 7K, so your tool really helps picture what a 7K crop factor will be. Would I like 8K to be 30FPS or at least 24/25 FPS... sure. But at that price point, I don't expect it. We will see on the 11th.
 
Andy Roberts said:
If you refresh the page a few times, you'll see that it randomly fills from Phil's extraordinary clips. So "where is that" might be a little hard to answer.

Thanks again for the great great tool Phil. Based on Jarred's "Not a chance" comment about 40FPS at 8K, I have to imagine the Epic-W may be like the Scarlet-MX and only get stills (12FPS) at 8K but more standard shooting frame rates at 7K, so your tool really helps picture what a 7K crop factor will be. Would I like 8K to be 30FPS or at least 24/25 FPS... sure. But at that price point, I don't expect it. We will see on the 11th.
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I said this earlier in the thread, but nobody was listening. I'm hoping that Epic-W can still manage 24/25/30 fps at, say 8:1 in 8K. But it does seem like a long shot.
 
Yeah, but the difference is that Scarlet-MX still reached the 4k/UHD standard.

Can't imagine Epic-W being less than speed/25-30fps at 8kHD... it wouldn't really be an 8k camera otherwise, which would be such a waste. When you're dealing in between standards (like 5k and 6k) it doesn't really matter (as they're going down to a 4k finish anyway), but with 4k and 8k it'd seriously be shooting Epic-W in the foot (even if 7k = s35 exactly).

Remember, RED doesn't speak "upressing", and you know everyone would be upressing that 7k footage to "8k" come 2020 (or whenever.)
 
Mike P. said:
Yeah, but the difference is that Scarlet-MX still reached the 4k/UHD standard.

Can't imagine Epic-W being less than speed/25-30fps at 8kHD... it wouldn't really be an 8k camera otherwise, which would be such a waste. When you're dealing in between standards (like 5k and 6k) it doesn't really matter (as they're going down to a 4k finish anyway), but with 4k and 8k it'd seriously be shooting Epic-W in the foot (even if 7k = s35 exactly).

Remember, RED doesn't speak "upressing", and you know everyone would be upressing that 7k footage to "8k" come 2020 (or whenever.)
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Yeah, if Epic-W 8K is any less that 25-30fps, I'm not sure I'll bite.
 
Kenneth C Merrill said:
I said this earlier in the thread, but nobody was listening. I'm hoping that Epic-W can still manage 24/25/30 fps at, say 8:1 in 8K. But it does seem like a long shot.
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Comparing 5K WS of Scarlet W to 7K FF of Epic W using Phil's tool

So the FOV is nearly the same, but 2000 pixels wider.

If someone wants an 8K finish, then sub 30 FPS 8K Epic-W may not interest them. But down sampling 7K for a 4K finish, plus 7K and 8K stills... that Epic would be up my alley.

Maybe Jarred will just end the suspense and tell us.
 
Derek Means said:
I can't imagine what the GPU needs of Davinci Resolve are going to be with 8k. Any have any idea of what VRam requirements on that will be?
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I assume I'm gonna have to shoot at higher compression.
Redcine does fine in my machine but Resolve not so well.
Mac Pro Trashcan w best stuff.
But I'm with most here,, would seem crazy to turn down
an offer like this.

curtis
 
I'll be shooting more 4K prores I think from the 8k field of view. I've been LOVING XQ 4444
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
I'll be shooting more 4K prores I think from the 8k field of view. I've been LOVING XQ 4444
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It's believed that the Epic-W won't capture 4K ProRes and that the function will be only on the Weapon Helium. I'm hoping that's not the case, I'd love the ability to capture 4K ProRes from the 8K FOV. Then again, now guys are talking about the possibility of sub-24fps 8K frame rates because we still don't know for certain... I imagine Jarred wants to spill more details but Brent likes to watch us squirm.
 
Josh Becker said:
It's believed that the Epic-W won't capture 4K ProRes and that the function will be only on the Weapon Helium. I'm hoping that's not the case, I'd love the ability to capture 4K ProRes from the 8K FOV. Then again, now guys are talking about the possibility of sub-24fps 8K frame rates because we still don't know for certain... I imagine Jarred wants to spill more details but Brent likes to watch us squirm.
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Sorry I was talking about the weapon helium, that's where I'm headed. I think most likely 2k prores will be in epic-w, it is basically replacing magnesium
 
Curtis boggs said:
I assume I'm gonna have to shoot at higher compression.
Redcine does fine in my machine but Resolve not so well.
Mac Pro Trashcan w best stuff.
But I'm with most here,, would seem crazy to turn down
an offer like this.

curtis
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i have a trashcan as well, and resolve does fine for me. maybe your media speed could be a bottle neck. you need around 800 mb/s for your cache and linked media for resolve to be friendly with you.
 
Kenneth C Merrill said:
I said this earlier in the thread, but nobody was listening. I'm hoping that Epic-W can still manage 24/25/30 fps at, say 8:1 in 8K. But it does seem like a long shot.
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Using Phil Holland's tools for the Helium, anything below 225MB/s, I feel will be very realistic (anything bordering 225MB/s, may be the next compression number, for best guesses) 24fps 8k FF, 6:1 or 7:1 for sure.
 
I agree with several - that it really should at least do 24fps 8K although if the price was low enough and still high frame rate at say 6K would be willing to only use 8K stills.
More curious about downsampling / interpolation - what algorithm - when you shoot on the Epic-W in 4K/6K is it crop only or downsampled / interpolated before being sent to SSD at video rates? If high frame rate with custom circuitry to downsample / interpolate in real time that would be super clean nice video plus option for 8K stills/24fps.

Pixel-binning on Sony a7Rii is apparently very primitive algorithm so no clear advantage - but maybe RED could design real-time interpolation circuitry.
If this is already specified anywhere give me a hint where to look.
 
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jordan levy said:
I am still trying to figure out which camera in 4kHD is the closest to s35mm format size on the sensor.
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cant believe no one can actually answer this question, ive been putting it out there for all about a year now and its always passed over, now with even more cameras being released it would be nice to know. i cant even give productions a real answer.
to reiterate, if every camera red sells were set to 4khd, which one would be closest to s35mm.
thanks.
 
MX sensor is closest but is not sold anymore.

Dragon sensor is the next closest at 4kHD,

Helium is quite far from s35 at 4khd.

Camera doesn't matter, sensor does. If prores is allowed, then any of the higher end weapons can do 4kUHD at any sensor 'crop factor'.
 
jordan levy said:
cant believe no one can actually answer this question, ive been putting it out there for all about a year now and its always passed over, now with even more cameras being released it would be nice to know. i cant even give productions a real answer.
to reiterate, if every camera red sells were set to 4khd, which one would be closest to s35mm.
thanks.
Click to expand...

It's really not that hard to calculate using the information on each camera's product page. It'd take you about 5 minutes.
 
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