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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Kinefinity was using cineform. Do they have a license to only use it in certain markets?
 
When is Sony going to realese their 3 layer, 100 mp and 16k holographic sensors, they had in works years ago?
 
Or is it all going on the same over 132mp+ sensor soon?
 
One thing is certain, Arri might be trouble relying on past perceived superiority.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
One thing is certain, Arri might be trouble relying on past perceived superiority.
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I have to say that this is very, very true.
I visited Jarred today at RHS, and had a sneak peek at Helium. Man, its gonna be good.
 
I really wish I could ask more, but you would be under confidential disclosure.

People say dragon is good, butbI have an approximately ten year old el-cheapo camera with 16 stop hdr, and an older still camera with 15 year old more stop HDR still. We have been waiting this long to get native stop inna high quality cinema camera, but so much more can be done, and on smaller pixels. I look forwards to 20 stops and more native saturation on a weapon sized sensor.

20 stop, matches one of the human visions ranges I think from memory.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
One thing is certain, Arri might be trouble relying on past perceived superiority.
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Arri is not in trouble. If I could afford it I would get one. Most of the Academy nominated films were shot on Arri, not Red or Sony. It's not about the specs? It's how the image looks. Roger Deakins can shoot on anything he likes and his goto camera is a 2.8K Arri.
 
You're right, Arri is not in trouble right now. But they are not innovating. At least not in the way RED is, and quite frankly always had. Arri is resting on their laurels, while Jarred and co. keep forging ahead, innovating. That perception that Arri is better is slowly changing and it will continue to change. Dragon, Panavision, Helium. All these things are innovations that are attracting more people to take a longer look at RED and liking what they see. And when you see the latest, Helium, I think there will be no going back...
 
The way I see it about the ARRI story is that Arri Users I know hated and criticized RED a lot and loved ARRI... Now, Not so much, they like a lot what RED is doing... So, they even Admit what's happening under RED's hood... and soon, I am sure, a lot of them will jump into RED and those laurels ARRI has been sitting on will lose their cushion. Unless ARRI do some shit about it... LOL

ARRI is great! and the image it reproduces is beautiful. Yet, RED is amazing and on the upside and 6K, 8K and new sensor options, workflow options, not to mention custom cameras for some highly known directors, that is just pristine!

Today I started to see footage from my film "UMA". Shot in Italy with DRAGON EPIC X @ 6K (Thanks to the RED TEAM), after been for a few years SCARLET X owner. It is just amazing how RED produces images. and 6K I thought it was just a plus, but no, it actually helps a lot do to great things...

UMA's Private teaser will be shared soon with you guys... Finally after a couple of months of an amazing and crazy journey in Italy. :)
 
Like you know what Arri is working on. They might not announced half finished cameras like others do, but when they do, you know it will be ready to ship.
 
David Ruzicka said:
Like you know what Arri is working on. They might not announced half finished cameras like others do, but when they do, you know it will be ready to ship.
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It's good to make jabs here and there, but warrant a few of those punches with some other information.

To be explicitly clear and for those who have a short memory, Arri's original plan was to release a "4K+ Alexa" in 2011, one year after Alexa's launch. This was something that was known from about 2007-2008 on by "some". It seemingly was forgotten about, but Franz Kraus finally mentioned it in a public interview in 2013 to the Hollywood Reporter. There were a host of reasons why that was scrapped in 2011.

There have been and are prototypes out there since that interview, things have even been shot with them, and then there's the new sensor that's in the works.


Conversely, wrangling things over to the RED side of the fence, they have been pressing down on the gas pedal creating a new body type, improving sensor performance, and developing new sensor technologies. In some cases "teasing" us with the new stuff, but mostly a tease is there to inform you that something is coming to help you plan accordingly. Frustrating at time in terms of allocation, but the shear number of orders and this type and quality level found in these cameras represent a very hard task to deliver. It's not something you realistically can make a 1000 of a day.
 
Daniel Stilling said:
You're right, Arri is not in trouble right now. But they are not innovating. At least not in the way RED is, and quite frankly always had. Arri is resting on their laurels, while Jarred and co. keep forging ahead, innovating. That perception that Arri is better is slowly changing and it will continue to change. Dragon, Panavision, Helium. All these things are innovations that are attracting more people to take a longer look at RED and liking what they see. And when you see the latest, Helium, I think there will be no going back...
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6K medium format sounds pretty damn innovative to me. Arri has never been about resolution anyway. They prefer image quality and reliability over anything else. Which is why Arri is so popular with high-end productions. Imo Red and Arri aren't even competitors.
 
David Ruzicka said:
Like you know what Arri is working on. They might not announced half finished cameras like others do, but when they do, you know it will be ready to ship.
Click to expand...

You mean like the Alexa Mini, which was not ready to ship when launched? It wasn't nearly finished, as we had to wait for full support of Anamorphic mode and internal RAW recording to get enabled, which they finally got around to in March of this year. On top of that, there were a bunch of little bugs early on. Don't get me wrong, I love shooting with the Alexa Mini (I also love RED's stuff), but Arri suffers from announcing and releasing not-quite-ready cameras just like every other camera manufacturer seems to do these days.
 
Phil Holland said:
Conversely, wrangling things over to the RED side of the fence, they have been pressing down on the gas pedal creating a new body type, improving sensor performance, and developing new sensor technologies. In some cases "teasing" us with the new stuff, but mostly a tease is there to inform you that something is coming to help you plan accordingly. Frustrating at time in terms of allocation, but the shear number of orders and this type and quality level found in these cameras represent a very hard task to deliver. It's not something you realistically can make a 1000 of a day.
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Helpful perspective, Phil. It's tough not feeling a little put out when new tech is teased before old tech is even delivered – hard to plan, for that matter, when shipping estimates are off by a few months. I love what Red's putting out there for us, though. Crazy compromise between size, resolution, remote operation, frame rate, color science, etc. etc. Very few compromises to make when choosing a camera (well, except maybe that they don't seem to be actually able to sell them at the moment :)

Question: do you think the cost of Weapon Mg is worth it over Scarlet-W? The two are so darn close in specs, but spaced out on price, it's a tough call. 6K vs 5K seem like two in-between resolutions for over-sampling 4K delivery.
 
Matt Beardsley said:
Helpful perspective, Phil. It's tough not feeling a little put out when new tech is teased before old tech is even delivered – hard to plan, for that matter, when shipping estimates are off by a few months. I love what Red's putting out there for us, though. Crazy compromise between size, resolution, remote operation, frame rate, color science, etc. etc. Very few compromises to make when choosing a camera (well, except maybe that they don't seem to be actually able to sell them at the moment :)

Question: do you think the cost of Weapon Mg is worth it over Scarlet-W? The two are so darn close in specs, but spaced out on price, it's a tough call. 6K vs 5K seem like two in-between resolutions for over-sampling 4K delivery.
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Cheers Matt. I think the first thing that will need to be said is there's nothing "old" about DSMC2 bodies and the Dragon Sensor Technology despite Helium's announcement/reveal. This is going to be about choice at the end of the day in many ways. Good choices nonetheless if you're interested in 8K and want that in S35 or VV format sizes.

For me, I use and shoot at 6K resolution a fair amount as well as the formats found within (6K FF, 2:1, WS, HD, 6:5 ANA). So a Weapon MG investment would make sense to a shooter like me. Resolution works very nicely in the worlds I work with, so in many ways more is better.

Data Rates, Resolution, Format Size. All of those things are important really. How important they are to you is the harder question. Truthfully I rarely shot below 5K on Epic Dragon and Weapon 6K. Most of my jobs were indeed at 5.5K or 6K HD when I look at the numbers.

Just another perspective to add into the bucket. Value in RED often comes in the form of the upgrade paths. For instance to upgrade Weapon MG to the "next" will be less expensive likely than Scarlet-W to the "next" depending on features and other factors.

At the moment however, I personally feel Scarlet-W is a great amount of bang for the buck. It's price point and feature set is incredibly compelling. However, that's also resulted in a fairly large queue.

If you do go to Weapon MG 6K I can't fathom you regretting it in terms of what the camera itself produces when it comes to image quality. These DSMC2 bodies in my opinion are pretty much the best option out there, which of course is my opinion. But my opinion comes from rigorous testing, comparing, and sleepless nights.
 
Phil Holland said:
At the moment however, I personally feel Scarlet-W is a great amount of bang for the buck. It's price point and feature set is incredibly compelling. However, that's also resulted in a fairly large queue.
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This. At least for me, I can't find another competitor that has the features and compromises that fit the way I shoot better. I almost wish I didn't need the lightweight body or less-compressed footage -- otherwise I'd already have a Varicam LT in my hands. But hot damn if it's not a killer deal. I'm stoked to get my S-W and will also be stoked when I move to Helium...assuming that will happen for me in the future :). The upgrade paths are so interesting and quite literally an investment if you look at it that way. The DSMC2 bodies with Dragon sensors are out in the wild for non-custom users...the Helium though is still being developed and implemented. Wouldn't be surprised if in one year, people are still SPECulating about Helium (that's my horrible pun).

edit: spelling
 
Will there be any Scarlet-W Allocations this week?
 
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