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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

THE M8 (008) Discussion thread

This has created an intriguing discussion on Internet footage quality, and by the way thanks guys for answering so many posts. It's truly unreal -- most people forget how busy your professional lives are (not even considering personal) so the fact you are taking so much time here to post is just mind-bogglingly generous.

In terms of internet quality video, with so much more streaming videos and films -- and many more moving online in the coming years -- I really hope Red can help pioneer a shift in the quality of internet video. I know it is dependent on other things outside of Red's control -- such as quality of screens, internet speeds/bandwidth, etc -- but I truly dream of a day when I can see 4k or 5k footage on my Macbook Pro or large monitor and not have to worry about the compression/quality issues that have arisen on this thread.

In the meantime, I believe it's still very possible to appreciate the footage particularly the clarity and overall character and range of the image. Obviously not as much as on a projector, but I have a feeling some of the coming tests from Ketch and others will begin to further blow people away -- even compressed.

Anyway, thanks again guys -- watching the Epic's development unfold in this way is the most exciting story I've seen in years ..... :coolgleamA:
 
Thank you Meryem...

The lens used for the Zion motion sequence and tunnel sequence was a Ruby 14-24 T2.8. The lens used for the Kolob Canyon pan and ramped sunset was a Red 17-50 T2.8. The lens used for the snow shots was a stock Canon FD 150-600 F2.8, with a Century PL mount conversion. I'll look forward to when Red has their Canon mount ready - because as you know, I normally shoot almost exclusively with 35mm still lenses on Red One, and plan to with Epic. For my work, where I use a lot of zooms, my mainstay Canon lenses on Epic will be the 16-35 F2.8 MkII, 24-70 F2.8, and 70-200 F2.8. Fun times ahead...

When viewed in raw, especially on a good monitor, there is amazing detail in all those shot sequences.

Human close-ups coming. Ketch has the camera in California now, and he's well known for his human shots. I believe they re prepping for some of those types of shots right now.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
... my only wish to see "something different" would be to see human close-ups - some eyes (for sharpness and facial detail) and some skin tones - everyone was all bundled up tight and wearing googles!

as tests of DR, motion handling, and lowlight, these serve us very well. thanks, team!
Click to expand...

AnthonyFlores said:
...but I have a feeling some of the coming tests from Ketch and others will begin to further blow people away -- even compressed. :coolgleamA:
Click to expand...

few shoots coming up, will be exactly in this terms, shot in a very controlled environment,
with a full Cine Style set up and Crew, to bad that our Master Diopters for full screen Eye shots are not here yet,
so will do those with the MP 75mm and the RPP 300mm.

Will be most likely starting a new Discussion Thread for it, so not to mix EFP and Cine Style shooting ;)
 
Steve Gibby said:
The lens used for the Zion motion sequence and tunnel sequence was a Ruby 14-24 T2.8.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response, Steve...

Do you happen to also know the ISO setting? (probably a lot to ask to remember a detail like that, on something you shot a week ago...)

Last night I was shooting a sign at a wildlife sanctuary with just headlights lighting it and my 18-50mm at T2.9 and ISO 1280, with my MXed RED ONE, so I have an image in my head which I can immediately compare to...

So many lowlight shots we have seen posted have been shot with speedy lenses, MPs, etc., and outdoors shooting rarely happens on these fast lenses, usually we are using much slower zooms, so I'm curious to compare what is in my head with a similar shot from EPIC...looks super clean. Mine will probably show a little noise, but then again, I'm frequently surprised at detail that shows up in the footage review, which wasn't apparent in the little LCD monitor.

Looking forward to your humans, Ketch!
 
Meryem,

The ISO setting for the tunnel sequence was 1600 - and no HDRx was used. The native ISO for the sensor is 800. I shot almost all of the other shots at ISO 800, but when it got heavily overcast toward the end of the snow shooting I boosted the ISO to 1000.

Epic will be an amazing tool for the low light shots you described - even without going to HDRx. Than if you need HDRx, its there to use. The 1600 ISO tunnel shot was amazingly noise free. The ISO 1000 snow shots, done late in the afternoon, were shot just above f5.6, and also were noise free - even in the dark trees behind.
 
Steve Gibby said:
The ISO setting for the tunnel sequence was 1600 - and no HDRx™ was used. The native ISO for the sensor is 800. I shot almost all of the other shots at ISO 800, but when it got heavily overcast toward the end of the snow shooting I boosted the ISO to 1000.

Epic will be an amazing tool for the low light shots you described - even without going to HDRx™. Than if you need HDRx™, its there to use. The 1600 ISO tunnel shot was amazingly noise free. The ISO 1000 snow shots, done late in the afternoon, were shot just above f5.6.
Click to expand...
Steve, just curious...do you keep a shot log to record this kind of info? Or do you just remember it? Either way, it is very helpful to those of us that are trying to "reverse engineer" the parameters of each shot.
 
Before I finished my college degree, and launched into into TV production, I had an eight year run as an air traffic controller with the USAF and then FAA. That's the ultimate multi-tasking (and stress) job, and remembering numbers and facts is critical to the job. Ever since then my brain seems to quickly record numbers and facts - thus I don't keep a written shot log - it all seems to just stick there in my brain :)
 
much appreciated, Steve! I get the sense that EPIC will be somewhat of an improvement in terms of lowlight, non-HDRx shots. Maybe a stop or so, but I'm just guessing.

It is the ergonomics which I can't wait for...when I spend more time on producing or editing instead of shooting RED ONE, it feels a bit like going to the gym, when you haven't been going to the gym, if you have to carry it fast or far. EPIC is my dream.
 
Meryem, I'm guessing you're going to really love Epic :)

One of the camera setups we did with Epic M8 weighed only 15 pounds - and that was with a cine lens and Red brick. With a small Canon lens, the 5" LCD, and a Red Volt battery in a side grip, I'd estimate the camera setup weight would be right around 9 pounds, and just under 10 pounds if you use the Bomb EVF in lieu of the LCD. Also, to increase camera run times, I'll frequently add the bottom case containing another, Red Volt battery would probably add about a pound to that.

A lot of my wide angle, mobile run and gun production, will be with a rig setup like I've described. Put the rig in a small backpack with extra Red Volt batteries and an extra SSD, sling a Cine Saddle or small fluid head CF tripod over your shoulder, and you're a crew of one off to shoot 5k :hurray:
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
I am offering up the possibility of Steve and Ketch and mark to come visit us on Spiderman and compare notes on the Epic progress.

Let me know. Steve, Jim knows my numbers so although you are busy doing your tests you are welcome to come to Universal and hang and talk. We have 7 EPICS working 14 hours a day.

Peter
Click to expand...

Peter, thanks again for the invitation...

it was a true pleasure seen you at Spiderman yesterday, and great to see the incredible work you guys are doing over
at Sony, don't worry we will not say anything about the Secrets you shared he he, and off course nice sharing tough
of EPIC with you, and see EPICs hard at work, and Brook Willard, and thanks to Nate form RED for taking us around ;)

Here is the quick snap shot Pamala Gibby tucked of us...

Ketchstevepeterjoseph.jpg
 
Thanks Peter, for the invitation. It was great meeting you and Brook after all this time of seeing your activity here on REDuser.

It also nice meeting Nate, as well.

Cheers and good luck to the rest of you guy's shoot!
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
Has anyone tried to test the Rolling shutter effect at all? I'd love to see some quick pans and camera shake to see how hard it is to create.
-Ryan
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You know, I think I pose a pretty valid question here and no one has even bothered to address it at all. Do all these threads turn into group hugs? No offense guys... just want a decent reply here.
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
You know, I think I pose a pretty valid question here and no one has even bothered to address it at all. Do all these threads turn into group hugs? No offense guys... just want a decent reply here.
Click to expand...

Hehe, nice. That'll get the very limited few who actually have access to an Epic to take the time to respond to you. :thumbup1:
 
Ryan,

There have been several recent threads here on Red User where someone asked about rolling shutter questions. I'd suggest you use the search tool and find them. In short, Jim and other Red Team members have clearly defined that Epic has a very quick read/reset time (around 5ms), thus rolling shutter simply isn’t an issue with Epic. Yes, I’ve done many quick pans and tilts with Epic – with no apparent rolling shutter issues.

Just because you ask for something doesn’t mean you’ll immediately get it – or get it at all. Everyone who has an Epic has paid a lot of money for it, has busy professional schedules, and takes time out from their regular work to answer questions here. We do that on our own free will – but we don’t jump when someone here says “jump”. In fact, that attitude leaves us less likely to answer a question.

You have just 32 posts here, and in your sarcastic “group hug” comment you’ve managed to insult three longtime heavy contributors to Red User and the Red community (me, Ketch, Joseph), and a deeply respected ASC member who is currently a DP for one of the highest profile feature films in production (Peter Collister – “Spiderman”). I’d say you need to re-think your sense of entitlement, realize that nobody here “owes’ you an immediate answer (or any answer at all), and that insulting longtime contributors here isn’t the best course of action here or anywhere in this industry. Being demanding and insulting to experienced veterans will only bring you grief in this industry - trust me on this.
 
I just really loved this thread and it kind of dwindled after all the personal messages. That's all I mean by it.

Steve, thanks for your response. Glad to hear that the rolling shutter is not an issue with Epic.

My appologies if you feel offended by my comment. I think it sounds harsher than I meant it. If you reread it, I did write "no offense guys." Which means, I'm meaning no offence by what I've written. Think of "no offense" as a smily face of the past, before smily faces existed ;) I'm glad you guys get along and are happy to see one another. It's nice to see you guys hang on the set of a major motion picture too. I personally feel like it might be more appropriate on another thread though. Online forums have ediquette and I was trying to nudge the forum back to a more informative camera Q&A which it started as. Apparently I failed with a bad joke. :( Again my oppologies to anyone who may have felt offended.

Steve, my mear 32 posts haven't yet let me realize (until now) that the happy inflection :) in my voice doesn't correlate to the written word and people often assume the worst. :( Steve you've now publicly chastized and embarrassed me in front of everyone because you missunderstood my message. How about a little grace for the little guy? Surely after 3000+ posts you've come accross a misunderstanding in these forums before? Again, I wasnt trying to insult anyone, thats why i wrote, "no offence."
 
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Ryan,

Networking, alliances, and personal messages are the bedrock of this industry. Obviously understanding the technology we use is also critical. That said, we can be the best tech person and/or artist in the world, but if our interpersonal skills are lacking nobody wants to work with us.

I mentioned in my very last post that Jim and others from Red Team have put the recurring rolling shutter questions to rest in recent threads. Use the search tool, find those threads, and read them for yourself. I also just mentioned in my last post that I had done fast pans and tilts with Epic, with no evident rolling shutter problems. I knew before I even did those fast pans and tilts with Epic that the fast read/reset time of the sensor would eliminate any rolling shutter issues. I'm satisfied with that - and IMO you should be too.

In summary, I've done tons of fast pans and tilts with Epic - with no rolling shutter problems at all. Huge amounts of the work I do are in genres that require fast pans and tilts, including the genres of action sports, wildlife, music, etc. I've written tons of tech review articles for multiple TV/film trade magazines over the years, and I have 30+ years experience in this industry - - thus you should be able take my word on this. Just sayin'...

I'm glad you've enjoyed this thread - I have too. Beyond this thread, there are two other active Epic M8 threads, the "M8 (aka 0008) thread, and the "Ketch Rossi Cine Style Shooting Epic M8" thread. We're balancing all this with our regular work schedules - which naturally have to take first priority.

BTW - I see you're from San Clemente. That's my home town - I lived there for many years. I also keep a few surfboards at my family's home there for when I need a surf fix. Sometime when I'm there, and have an Epic with me, I'd be happy to demonstrate Epic's lack of rolling shutter in person - maybe by shooting some surfing at Lower Trestles.
 
Steve Gibby said:
Ryan,

There have been several recent threads here on Red User where someone asked about rolling shutter questions. I'd suggest you use the search tool and find them. In short, Jim and other Red Team members have clearly defined that Epic has a very quick read/reset time (around 5ms), thus rolling shutter simply isn’t an issue with Epic. Yes, I’ve done many quick pans and tilts with Epic – with no apparent rolling shutter issues.

Just because you ask for something doesn’t mean you’ll immediately get it – or get it at all. Everyone who has an Epic has paid a lot of money for it, has busy professional schedules, and takes time out from their regular work to answer questions here. We do that on our own free will – but we don’t jump when someone here says “jump”. In fact, that attitude leaves us less likely to answer a question.

You have just 32 posts here, and in your sarcastic “group hug” comment you’ve managed to insult three longtime heavy contributors to Red User and the Red community (me, Ketch, Joseph), and a deeply respected ASC member who is currently a DP for one of the highest profile feature films in production (Peter Collister – “Spiderman”). I’d say you need to re-think your sense of entitlement, realize that nobody here “owes’ you an immediate answer (or any answer at all), and that insulting longtime contributors here isn’t the best course of action here or anywhere in this industry. Being demanding and insulting to experienced veterans will only bring you grief in this industry - trust me on this.
Click to expand...

Well said
 
Steve Gibby said:
BTW - I see you're from San Clemente. That's my home town - I lived there for many years. I also keep a few surfboards at my family's home there for when I need a surf fix. Sometime when I'm there, and have an Epic with me, I'd be happy to demonstrate Epic's lack of rolling shutter in person - maybe by shooting some surfing at Lower Trestles.
Click to expand...

Steve,
Its people like you that make me love working with the RED and the community thats built up around it. Truly. Give me a shout if your ever in Ireland and need a fixer/DIT/driver on the ground.
 
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