The lack of monitor

[Christoffer Glans]

Now that Raptor has been released and we also got the DSMC3 RED TOUCH 7.0" I want to raise the question about a Red dedicated Komodo monitor.
The new monitor doesn't work on Komodo and I also think it's too big for the smaller form factor.

If Red, by any chance, is still reading this part of the forum. We need a monitor that isn't SDI and that isn't Komodo Link. Neither of those options really are optimal, for many reasons already mentioned everywhere. We need a monitor that can be powered by BP batteries. A 5" monitor that can be mounted on top of Komodo without any extra cables and that is powered by BP batteries makes a lot of sense.

Now that Raptor is out of the cage and hard work of getting that together is done, I would urge Red to look into making a Komodo dedicated monitor. Don't leave Komodo behind just because the Raptors were released into the world.

 

[Tim Szczesniak]

Is there any word if the top pins can even *support* image? I know power's a no-go but not sure. I can't really imagine they would have gone with the SmallHD focus as their "monitor of choice" if they were going to come out with a proprietary monitor, doesn't seem like it was ever in the cards

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Is there any word if the top pins can even *support* image? I know power's a no-go but not sure. I can't really imagine they would have gone with the SmallHD focus as their "monitor of choice" if they were going to come out with a proprietary monitor, doesn't seem like it was ever in the cards

If it can support Komodo Link, it should be able to support something else that pulls the image through it. If the Type-C cable and phone app is the thing that keeps screwing up reliability and quality, then a direct connection to a screen without anything else would be more than possible.

I mean, we don't even have to have a touch screen. Just make a basic BP powered native monitor in 5" that cost around $700 or something, it's not rocket science but it would be an extremely welcome addition to a Komodo package.

 

[Chris W.]

Is our only option using the Link Adaptor or the komodo phone app if we don't want to use the SDI port? I'm kind of scared of frying the SDI port and then having to pay $500 or so every time. Would love a monitor made for the komodo especially if they came out with a new outrigger side handle that you could use with it

 

[Phil Holland]

Is our only option using the Link Adaptor or the komodo phone app if we don't want to use the SDI port? I'm kind of scared of frying the SDI port and then having to pay $500 or so every time. Would love a monitor made for the komodo especially if they came out with a new outrigger side handle that you could use with it

Don't panic. I've been using SDI since Komodo's release without any "protection" and haven't blown anything up. Use good cables and displays from brands you can trust, and look at the best practices.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Personally I can't really wrap my head around the fact that my DJI spark that cost something like 300USD gives video and control to my phone without cables without lag or any other kind of hicups and Komodo simply cant do it, not even with a cable attached. the DJI FPV does really high quality video to my phone over cable and then the picture is flawless even when the drone is some hundred meters away. Those toys cost pretty much nothing in comparison to what I think it would be worth to have the same functionality on Komodo.

and while I'm on it... DJI can control focus, start stop etc over USB-C on Sony cams and some other trough the R2S... Komodo is like built for that little gimbal, still no camera or RF / EF camera control trough DJI focus. I so hope that Red continues to work on komodo even though this raptor thing just got released. Seams like there is so much potential. But I guess if it's as difficult as it seams to get components for them and get Komodos out the door it's not much benefit for red to continue to develop for them.

 

[andrewhake]

You seem to have a love of being unbelievably negative about every thought that pops into your head haha. I think it was made extremely clear there won’t be a direct attach monitor for the Komodo that doesn’t require external power/connection

I am sure you have probably even been told this directly by Red in this forum but here we are.

Would it be nice? Yes. Will it happen. Probably not. Do we really need a wall of text about it? Nope.

The only likelihood would be a display that is supported over USB-C. Technically possible but not many companies making USB-C displays. Getting enough power is an entirely different problem though. Right now the best USB-C displays are on the phones which are already supported.

 

[Björn Benckert]

You seem to have a love of being unbelievably negative about every thought that pops into your head haha. I think it was made extremely clear there won’t be a direct attach monitor for the Komodo that doesn’t require external power/connection

I am sure you have probably even been told this directly by Red in this forum but here we are.

Would it be nice? Yes. Will it happen. No. Do we really need a wall of text about it? Nope.

Have you tested the usb thingy? I can tell you it's seriously frustrating.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Don't panic. I've been using SDI since Komodo's release without any "protection" and haven't blown anything up. Use good cables and displays from brands you can trust, and look at the best practices.

That's not the point. If someone don't care and just hope nothing happens that's fine, but it doesn't help those who actually followed procedures and then get SDI blown anyway, or the ones who rent out gear and people don't follow procedures very well. This is not the type of reliability and robustness that are expected of pro gear. Yes, it's well known that SDI is flimsy in this regard, but not having any good native monitoring options is just plain bad. It was well known to Red as well that SDI wasn't the safest way to have as the primary monitoring solution.

The point is that unnecessary risk of damage should be avoided. And anecdotal remarks about a subjective positive experience is not really the way to handle this question. Remember that it might be easier for you to also "fix" these things if you do get any problems. For people around the world, it could mean weeks of getting a solution, while they need to work with the camera.

The request is for Red to make a basic monitor that functions with BP batteries. I don't see how this request is bad in any way. It makes logical sense. A native cable-less monitor with BP batteries is the only thing lacking on this camera.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I bought this:

https://www.cinegearfactory.com/products/csp1-sdi-protector-cable

Get it and stop worry so much.

I been doing everything to my komodo except following those SDI cable safety protocols, and it still comes video out of mine. Partisan II was shot on two komodos, think something like 80 days total, no kind of cable routines and without hiccups.


Still, I would love to use a phone with Komodo same way as I do with my drones.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

You seem to have a love of being unbelievably negative about every thought that pops into your head haha. I think it was made extremely clear there won’t be a direct attach monitor for the Komodo that doesn’t require external power/connection

I am sure you have probably even been told this directly by Red in this forum but here we are.

Would it be nice? Yes. Will it happen. Probably not. Do we really need a wall of text about it? Nope.

The only likelihood would be a display that is supported over USB-C. Technically possible but not many companies making USB-C displays. Getting enough power is an entirely different problem though. Right now the best USB-C displays are on the phones which are already supported.

I'm not unbelievably negative, I'm just not buying into Red as a lifestyle cheering all the time. It's an, for many people, extremely expensive investment, and if a camera isn't done, like still being in beta for AF and only having limited variable framerate options while not even getting communication about what we can expect, it's easy to get frustrated about this status quo.

And I'm not really sure why you talk about a monitor that has no power... I've said numerous times now: a dedicated native 5" monitor powered by BP batteries, that gets its image from the pins on top. All SDI monitors right now use Sony batteries, which means that if we even want to use SDI monitoring, we have to have separate chargers and Sony batteries for those monitors. A 5" monitor that doesn't use SDI but gets power from a BP slot on the back so that we can charge all batteries on the same kind of charger for both the camera and monitors makes huge sense.

How is this not a logical product for Komodo? I'm not even sure why it's even debatable, the question is whether or not Red choose to do one. We already know it's possible to get data through those pins due to Komodo Link.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I bought this:

https://www.cinegearfactory.com/products/csp1-sdi-protector-cable

Get it and stop worry so much.

I been doing everything to my komodo except following those SDI cable safety protocols, and it still comes video out of mine. Partisan II was shot on two komodos, think something like 80 days total, no kind of cable routines and without hiccups.


Still, I would love to use a phone with Komodo same way as I do with my drones.

People have already pointed out that isolators do not protect as people might think. They might mitigate, but it can still blow. I just don't think the hassle of having other battery types (sony) for the monitors and BPs for the camera, while having cables and isolator cables, grinding them down by connecting and disconnecting them every time batteries need to be changed and so on is in any way better than just Red making a native monitor with BP battery slots on the back. I feel like people just accept this half-baked monitoring solution when we could have a better solution.

 

[Andreas F. Scheucher]

Dear Christoffer,
I watched your several statements on the SDI issue and I will agree totally to Your opinion, that Komodo needs a cableless Monitor. I own 2 Monitors (SDI) for my Komodo, but the power Managment and the cables are a problem !!

 

[william howell]

I’m hoping RED looks at this topic… because I have a hydrogen, and a komodo… how hard would it be to make them talk to each other and supply power via the usb-c Komodo adapter?

Put the tattoo guns down, and write a little code…. Plain and simple.

I’m joking of course… i don’t care if you put the tattoo guns down while you write the code.

Edit: I am aware of using “red control”, however the need for an app that turns the hydrogen (or any other phone) into a latency free-ish red touch monitor is obvious. I wouldn’t care if we had to flash the firmware to uninstall the android os and turn it into a dedicated piece of Komodo hardware.. I’m aware of the development time required for something like this, and honestly.. I’m half joking.. but.. it would be nice to have a hassle-free dedicated monitoring solution that doesn’t have a chance to fry your camera every time you boot up. Flip the switch on the Komodo, and everything just works.. I know that’s probably not going to happen, but… this is a discussion board, so.. as long as we’re here, might as well discuss stuff… even though none of us really care about anything but the Raptor right now.

 

[Jason Gorman]

Wonder if it will ever support that dsmc3 monitor. The pins and bolts seem the same no? It even runs the same OS as smallhd.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I’m hoping RED looks at this topic… because I have a hydrogen, and a komodo… how hard would it be to make them talk to each other and supply power via the usb-c Komodo adapter?

Isn't this exactly what Komodo Link is? The problem with Komodo Link is that its main focus is to be able to control the camera through Red Control. Mikael is a great guy and his apps are superb, but they're focused primarily on control (in the name). What is lacking is a proper monitoring system that strips away everything that interferes with consistency, latency, and reliability. In Red Control, when used purely as a monitor, there are constant frame drops and sometimes even dropouts entirely, while the latency makes shooting with the camera feel extremely sluggish. It's hard to do fast action and know that you got the shot. Especially if you're shooting documentary style and there's fast-paced stuff going on and you can't stop and check recordings to see that you got it. So the performance as a pure monitoring solution is not optimal at all, it works as a good backup if the monitor used has problems, but it's not a good primary source for monitoring. Outside of this, there's another problem with Komodo Link and it's that whenever you use WiFi with Red Control, you can have the camera and the phone used with Red Control already set up and good to go when you turn the camera on, but with Komodo Link you need to setup USB tethering every time. You can't just have the things ready to go by just flipping the switch and start monitoring.

This was the reason that I, back when Red Control and everything was unveiled, thought the Hydrogen could utilize the pins on its back that were supposed to be used with the modular concept of that phone, but was ditched when they pulled the plug on it. And I get that there's no reason to make some product just for Hydrogen owners, but the concept shows a solution that can be built upon for a dedicated monitor.

We have pins on top of the Komodo, ready for any type of monitoring attachment. If the data for Komodo Link can go through it, just cutting out the USB bottleneck and phone/RedControl software interference and have a signal that goes straight to the monitor makes a lot of sense. And since Komodo uses BP batteries, I can't see why we couldn't just have a slot on the backside of such a monitor to power it.

This would mean that you essentially have a fixed monitor on the camera, you attach a BP battery on the backside of the monitor, and on the camera, you flip on both the camera and monitor and it's ready to go as soon as the camera and monitor have started up. Why in the world is this something that can't be or won't be done? I really can't figure out why this is so off the table for Red? Why can't they make another collaboration with SmallHD in this style if they don't want to make their own monitor screen?

So far I haven't heard a single argument against this idea that makes logical sense. It's either that "Red said they won't" or "yeah, just use SDI". It's just excuse-type arguments. Not only will a native monitor first get rid of the potential risks of SDI, not only will it improve on the performance of using Komodo Link and a phone, it will also make monitoring cableless, a feature people actually like outside of all other arguments. It will also make it so that you don't have to use two different battery types. And for those using V-lock batteries, buying BPs does not only power the monitor, it also gives the option to use them on the camera itself when needed. This is such a logical solution to the monitoring question on Komodo that it's like stating the obvious.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Isn't this exactly what Komodo Link is? The problem with Komodo Link is that its main focus is to be able to control the camera through Red Control. Mikael is a great guy and his apps are superb, but they're focused primarily on control (in the name). What is lacking is a proper monitoring system that strips away everything that interferes with consistency, latency, and reliability. In Red Control, when used purely as a monitor, there are constant frame drops and sometimes even dropouts entirely, while the latency makes shooting with the camera feel extremely sluggish. It's hard to do fast action and know that you got the shot. Especially if you're shooting documentary style and there's fast-paced stuff going on and you can't stop and check recordings to see that you got it. So the performance as a pure monitoring solution is not optimal at all, it works as a good backup if the monitor used has problems, but it's not a good primary source for monitoring. Outside of this, there's another problem with Komodo Link and it's that whenever you use WiFi with Red Control, you can have the camera and the phone used with Red Control already set up and good to go when you turn the camera on, but with Komodo Link you need to setup USB tethering every time. You can't just have the things ready to go by just flipping the switch and start monitoring.

This was the reason that I, back when Red Control and everything was unveiled, thought the Hydrogen could utilize the pins on its back that were supposed to be used with the modular concept of that phone, but was ditched when they pulled the plug on it. And I get that there's no reason to make some product just for Hydrogen owners, but the concept shows a solution that can be built upon for a dedicated monitor.

We have pins on top of the Komodo, ready for any type of monitoring attachment. If the data for Komodo Link can go through it, just cutting out the USB bottleneck and phone/RedControl software interference and have a signal that goes straight to the monitor makes a lot of sense. And since Komodo uses BP batteries, I can't see why we couldn't just have a slot on the backside of such a monitor to power it.

This would mean that you essentially have a fixed monitor on the camera, you attach a BP battery on the backside of the monitor, and on the camera, you flip on both the camera and monitor and it's ready to go as soon as the camera and monitor have started up. Why in the world is this something that can't be or won't be done? I really can't figure out why this is so off the table for Red? Why can't they make another collaboration with SmallHD in this style if they don't want to make their own monitor screen?

So far I haven't heard a single argument against this idea that makes logical sense. It's either that "Red said they won't" or "yeah, just use SDI". It's just excuse-type arguments. Not only will a native monitor first get rid of the potential risks of SDI, not only will it improve on the performance of using Komodo Link and a phone, it will also make monitoring cableless, a feature people actually like outside of all other arguments. It will also make it so that you don't have to use two different battery types. And for those using V-lock batteries, buying BPs does not only power the monitor, it also gives the option to use them on the camera itself when needed. This is such a logical solution to the monitoring question on Komodo that it's like stating the obvious.

One reason could be that they can't get the komodos out the door. Developing accessories for a camera that they have problem moving does not sound like good business tactics. If doing it Komodo would gain even more interest and if there is none to sell, what do you do?

As of now komodos almost only seams to slowly trickle out via Keith at a prime price, no?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

One reason could be that they can't get the komodos out the door. Developing accessories for a camera that they have problem moving does not sound like good business tactics. If doing it Komodo would gain even more interest and if there is none to sell, what do you do?

As of now komodos almost only seams to slowly trickle out via Keith at a prime price, no?

Yes, makes sense... but as long as a monitor like I describe is on the drawing board I'm happy with knowing it's coming. It's the silence, the "not knowing anything" that's a bit frustrating. How to plan investing into a kit when it's unknown how all of this will be handled.
I get that the Raptor monitor can't work due to not having any powering option from BP batteries, but I strongly think that SmallHD and Red should look into a BP monitor for Komodo, that also takes into account the smaller size of Komodo, meaning a 5" or 6" monitor is preferred.

I could help with concept drawings just to show how awesome this would be, I just want it to happen in order to have a strong camera kit that's robust and reliable.

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

I bought this:

https://www.cinegearfactory.com/products/csp1-sdi-protector-cable

Get it and stop worry so much.

I been doing everything to my komodo except following those SDI cable safety protocols, and it still comes video out of mine. Partisan II was shot on two komodos, think something like 80 days total, no kind of cable routines and without hiccups.


Still, I would love to use a phone with Komodo same way as I do with my drones.

What does the protector you link to actually do? I don't see details. Is it an isolator?

 

[Robert Hofmeyr]

Hey Christoffer, I too would love a native monitor, or usable wireless or wired video to android. Meanwhile I did get a Sony to canon BP battery adapter so at least my monitor and camera use the same batteries. I still have some Sony batteries for lightweight setups, but the large BPs run all day. https://www.vfgadgets.com/shop/power/battery-adapters/sony-npf-to-canon-bp-battery-adapter-bp-dv/