Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Internal Focus Motor Thread

Yep Dan, that's the plan, but griffin has no powermate bluetooth iOS SDK and they sell it as a computer accessory but will see about brewing my own hack if Apple lets us access BT devices easily from the sandbox...
 
Griffin encoder has more or less 24 steps per turn.
What that means is
1. count the steps 1:1 and keep turning as lenses have anywhere from 600+ to 2500 step encoders,
2. skip to every 50-100 step rotation and lose precision.
Your choice- no other solutions with the Griffin AFAIK. don't forget- it's just a mouse...
 
Jacek, your solution is very interesting! Where can I find more information about the Optitron 2 Wireless FF? Just a few other questions:
- Did I read this right that now it's possible to use it with a normal RED Canon EF mount? No need to replace this with a custom one, right?
- What do I need to purchase exactly for using it wirelessly? And how much would that cost?
- Is iris control in 1/3 steps or stepless? The latter would be incredible!
- Your Vimeo links don't work anymore, you have a video that shows your product on a RED camera?
- Any more pictures?

Thanks in advance! Cheers,
JD
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Griffin encoder has more or less 24 steps per turn.
What that means is
1. count the steps 1:1 and keep turning as lenses have anywhere from 600+ to 2500 step encoders,
2. skip to every 50-100 step rotation and lose precision.
Your choice- no other solutions with the Griffin AFAIK. don't forget- it's just a mouse...
Click to expand...

Sorry Jacek, just dis a quick test here and it looks like it has 96 steps not 'more or less 24'...

And you can map those steps to any fast or precise focus modes...

Of course it doesn't have hard stops nor 4096 steps or anything but it is perfectly usable as a cheap focus controller...
 
We counted 24- maybe we had another version.
Anyway, 24- 96 makes no difference for all practical purposes. There always have been and will be ghetto solutions. And they work fine for ghetto work- sometimes it's all you need-nothing wrong with that.
But for a top of the line $50K camera system it is probably not something to seriously consider.
"Cheap" and "focus controller" is a dangerous combination. Focus is not something you can fix in post- especially in 6K resolution...
Just a fair warning so you are not unpleasantly surprised after getting your hopes up ;)
 
Jean-Christophe Dupasquie said:
Jacek, your solution is very interesting! Where can I find more information about the Optitron 2 Wireless FF? Just a few other questions:
- Did I read this right that now it's possible to use it with a normal RED Canon EF mount? No need to replace this with a custom one, right?
- What do I need to purchase exactly for using it wirelessly? And how much would that cost?
- Is iris control in 1/3 steps or stepless? The latter would be incredible!
- Your Vimeo links don't work anymore, you have a video that shows your product on a RED camera?
- Any more pictures?

Thanks in advance! Cheers,
JD
Click to expand...
Thank you Jean!!!
Yes we do offer OptiTron2 now that controls lenses via the native RED Canon and Nikon mounts.
Iris steps(actually 1/8 stop increments with1/4 "detents") are the lens motor property so that's the way it is with current EF AF lenses
We have to move to "video planB" as of this morning as my editior bailed out for two weeks.
I'll just shoot straight through and post with no editing.
Not too happy about that FWIW :(
For now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQCy0WKLmEk
is all I have...
 
Jacek, I do not have high hopes because it works today... RCP SDK, as you know, has been working very well for a few month to control focus on motorized lenses...

Giles Harvey (on the photo with the gimbal...) shot that other video BBC-World-Cup-2014-Title-Sequence-shot-on-Carbon-Dragon... (loved the ghetto style btw) and I thought posting a photo of real world usage of REDLink to control focus on set could be an interesting news for redusers reading this thread...

Of course one can buy a $50K+ camera system and 100K$+ real cinema lenses, work with a top qualified AC and super high end follow focus system, even shoot with multiple similar setups.
One can also buy quality motorized photo lenses and your optitron and be super happy without spending real glass + FIZ system money.
One can also run a camera underwater, on a crane, in an helicopter or need to adjust focus punctually in any awkward situation like on a gimbal only once in a while and be happy to simply be able to control iris, motion mount ND, playback or any other parameter thru an iPhone, computer or anything else.

RED opened the REDLink SDK so *everyone* can make their own app or controlling device. I consider it as a playground to experiment and altho it is certainly a 'niche' market you do not necessarily have to devaluate other's solution to succeed... quite the opposite actually.

But since this thread seems more about the "expensive" or "high end" professional follow focus systems... I'll simply won't publish any other post here and let you discussion here without interrupting with some foolish toys. It will save both of us some of our time and energy.

Going back to my coding... gotta add new tiny feature to easily sort cameras in connection list for someone on set today with 12 connected cameras... and I sincerely wish you good luck and great success with your system (if that is what your are after by bashing most of my postings in here).
 
Mikael Lubtchansky said:
Jacek, I do not have high hopes because it works today... RCP SDK, as you know, has been working very well for a few month to control focus on motorized lenses...

Giles Harvey (on the photo with the gimbal...) shot that other video BBC-World-Cup-2014-Title-Sequence-shot-on-Carbon-Dragon... (loved the ghetto style btw) and I thought posting a photo of real world usage of REDLink to control focus on set could be an interesting news for redusers reading this thread...

Of course one can buy a $50K+ camera system and 100K$+ real cinema lenses, work with a top qualified AC and super high end follow focus system, even shoot with multiple similar setups.
One can also buy quality motorized photo lenses and your optitron and be super happy without spending real glass + FIZ system money.
One can also run a camera underwater, on a crane, in an helicopter or need to adjust focus punctually in any awkward situation like on a gimbal only once in a while and be happy to simply be able to control iris, motion mount ND, playback or any other parameter thru an iPhone, computer or anything else.

RED opened the REDLink SDK so *everyone* can make their own app or controlling device. I consider it as a playground to experiment and altho it is certainly a 'niche' market you do not necessarily have to devaluate other's solution to succeed... quite the opposite actually.

But since this thread seems more about the "expensive" or "high end" professional follow focus systems... I'll simply won't publish any other post here and let you discussion here without interrupting with some foolish toys. It will save both of us some of our time and energy.

Going back to my coding... gotta add new tiny feature to easily sort cameras in connection list for someone on set today with 12 connected cameras... and I sincerely wish you good luck and great success with your system (if that is what your are after by bashing most of my postings in here).
Click to expand...
It's not about you- get over it . It's about PROPER (excuse the caps) tool for the job.
And Griffin knob is just a toy- not a proper tool. We used it quite a bit in the initial Optitron software development two years ago..
Grow some skin Michael- you need it in business. Self pity and playing a victim will not change the technical specs- only proper engineering will.
And this thread is about that-proper control of AF lenses- not about egos being hurt...
People deserve to know the truth (well that didn't sound quite right for the occasion ;)
As a side note I think that your app is great for camera control-no question about it.
Lens control is a different story- you need a dedicated hardware.
I've done this for over 25 years and believe me- I'm very resourceful-if there was an easier and cheaper way to do that I would in a heart beat.
The optitron is a basement bargain compared to other wireless systems out there. If one can't afford it they should not be buying $10000+ camera system-makes no sense...
And I don't know what you mean by $100K of lenses and high end focus system- more like $10K worth of lenses and $2K lens control to achieve very close to what used to be $100K lenses and $30K focus system. Not to mention the weight and complexity.
But if that's too much...well....not much more I can do...;)
 
exactly, tool for the job... someone may prefer to use non motorized 100K$ lenses that do not breath when focusing with 15.000+ FIZ system and that's great.

On the other end, someone may be happy to precisely set focus or do small focus pulls on a static shot from an iPhone. And if some of them want to use it on a gimbal or underwater, let it be.

It certainly is not equivalent to a "full time use" professional AC follow focus from preston or a unit like yours. I just mentioned it was in use *today by people who do not look like amateurs to me.

Was just not right telling everyone a griffin or any other device has 24 steps when it actually has 4x more and does lets you move focus motors with accuracy...
It obviously has no marking disk, hard stops or anything a proper FF system (costing 10-20 times more minimum) can offer.

Been in his industry for 25 years but my life path did not necessarily gave me the interest to fight against you or anyone else.

Call me a fool but I'm passionate about what I do and try to offer the best customer support I can and sell my tools for fair price and if that side-business doesn't work in the long term then I'll move on or go back to just writing tools for my own use when needed.

As a single man with no business plan I also edit my own product demo videos or coded my little website... also I have (an)other job(s) shooting, editing and doing motion graphics so I see no interest in loosing much more time over this *proper FF system talks that's why I said I wished to let you enlighten everyone here without derailing the thread.
 
Mikael Lubtchansky said:
exactly, tool for the job... someone may prefer to use non motorized 100K$ lenses that do not breath when focusing with 15.000+ FIZ system and that's great.

On the other end, someone may be happy to precisely set focus or do small focus pulls on a static shot from an iPhone. And if some of them want to use it on a gimbal or underwater, let it be.

It certainly is not equivalent to a "full time use" professional AC follow focus from preston or a unit like yours. I just mentioned it was in use *today by people who do not look like amateurs to me.

Was just not right telling everyone a griffin or any other device has 24 steps when it actually has 4x more and does lets you move focus motors with accuracy...
It obviously has no marking disk, hard stops or anything a proper FF system (costing 10-20 times more minimum) can offer.

Been in his industry for 25 years but my life path did not necessarily gave me the interest to fight against you or anyone else.

Call me a fool but I'm passionate about what I do and try to offer the best customer support I can and sell my tools for fair price and if that side-business doesn't work in the long term then I'll move on or go back to just writing tools for my own use when needed.

As a single man with no business plan I also edit my own product demo videos or coded my little website... also I have (an)other job(s) shooting, editing and doing motion graphics so I see no interest in loosing much more time over this *proper FF system talks that's why I said I wished to let you enlighten everyone here without derailing the thread.
Click to expand...
Michael I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't know why you take the technical discussion so personally but I digress- I was not aware of this.
On a technical level- RED offers 16 bit resolution- 65000 or so steps. We use all of them to achieve the precision needed.
You claim you can do the same with 24 or 96. That's fine lets just agree to disagree like gentlemen...
Peace???
 
i'm all about peace.

To stay on technical side, yes there is 65536 steps on those RCP commands, but as you said it does't mean the lens iris or focus motors has that many steps.
If not a secret sauce, super secret info but actually a product tech spec, can you say how many steps you get on optitron with those 320 degree encoders ? I imagine 4096 steps would be plenty considering what one can already do with a cheap' 96 steps infinite knob.

Lastly if I may give you 3 foolideas :
- accept Dan's offer to help you shoot *proper video demo of your product.
- try to have one simple web page up to date with good photos and minimal product info.
- try to concentrate on what you do best and to do it even better without the feeling that everyone's else idea is a foolish one compared to the way you'd do it.

Shoot better videos, make a simple webpage, and focus on giving the best support and product to your existing and future customers.

Thank you
 
Hang in there, Mikael. Your products have been impressive e and your passion commendable. I always like to hear what you've got cooking. In fact, I bought a Griffin BT controller in hopes it will work with your app.
 
Guys guys, this thread is about internal motor focus control. "Professional" or not. The idea is that we discuss to create something better.
both of you have been doing fantastic work in this area and yes there is a place for pricer fine control and inexpensive course control in all markets. You are both developing compleatlely different systems. One does not replace the other so there is no need to argue.

Keeping your eye on the ball and doing what you do best will ensure your survival and prosperity when internal control catches on and you have 20 other companies doing the same thing for a fraction of the price. Look at what is happening in the gimbal market right now.
Be ready, build a solid costomer base and do what you do best.
 
Last edited:
I emailed you last week and posted in here about buying an OPT2 - didn't hear anything - have no idea what the price is, but if an invoice comes across my inbox I'll likely buy one just to have something to turn the motors in my sigma ART lenses and other EF mount glass.

until I can buy something I'm open to trying anything - even a Bluetooth speaker knob and a super sweet App.

Keep up the good work all devs, and let's not make this a gimbal wars style battle .
 
Dan Kanes said:
I emailed you last week and posted in here about buying an OPT2 - didn't hear anything - have no idea what the price is, but if an invoice comes across my inbox I'll likely buy one just to have something to turn the motors in my sigma ART lenses and other EF mount glass.

until I can buy something I'm open to trying anything - even a Bluetooth speaker knob and a super sweet App.

Keep up the good work all devs, and let's not make this a gimbal wars style battle .
Click to expand...

Also emailed you to purchase. looking forward to a reply.

Phil.
 
Dan Kanes said:
I emailed you last week and posted in here about buying an OPT2 - didn't hear anything - have no idea what the price is, but if an invoice comes across my inbox I'll likely buy one just to have something to turn the motors in my sigma ART lenses and other EF mount glass.

until I can buy something I'm open to trying anything - even a Bluetooth speaker knob and a super sweet App.

Keep up the good work all devs, and let's not make this a gimbal wars style battle .
Click to expand...
OK let me be clear here in my opinion: Our products are not a competition- never were, never will be
If I have to explain to you the differences...- good luck with the griffin- it's much cheaper and works just as well apparently- what's not to like.
You may be in for a surprise however...
I'm just trying to be realistic here- you may or may not chose to listen.
Now I'm sorry that I even expressed my opinion suppored with solid data and professional experience.
Hyping up and self pity works much better here.
Sorry but I don't subscribe to that, never have, never will.
Guys by all means use the toys first, don't listen to me, experience it youself. You'll come around eventually.
I just ask for one thing- please do not call these two products a competition- it does not speak well about your technical competence ;)
 
Jacek, I think you have a very interesting product and I am certainly considering it but it almost seems as if you don't want to sell it. Why so secretive? What's so difficult about putting up a simple webpage with a price and some videos? I don't get it.
 
Mikael Lubtchansky said:
i'm all about peace.

T
- accept Dan's offer to help you shoot *proper video demo of your product.
- try to have one simple web page up to date with good photos and minimal product info.
- try to concentrate on what you do best and to do it even better without the feeling that everyone's else idea is a foolish one compared to the way you'd do it.

Shoot better videos, make a simple webpage, and focus on giving the best support and product to your existing and future customers.

Thank you
Click to expand...
Michael you are disarming :001_rolleyes:
I can't even get mad at you because I know that you have no clue how insulting this post was...Oh well- I just love you guys, it is the only way :cheers2:
 
sander kamp said:
Jacek, I think you have a very interesting product and I am certainly considering it but it almost seems as if you don't want to sell it. Why so secretive? What's so difficult about putting up a simple webpage with a price and some videos? I don't get it.
Click to expand...
It's very simple Sander:
It wasn't ready up until couple of weeks ago. We are in summer mode and low on staff while the demand for our other products is increasing and we are struggling to keep up. Something has to give...
RED version of the OptiTron is extremely important to us and we don't want to blow it by misfiring the launch. In the mean time- cash flow is king- everyone knows that.
Got to keep manufacturing and shipping...
Got to thread lightly here. Look what happened to Dragon- I learned from that....And that's a RED product on RED forum-torn apart for no reason...
Patience guys- for the non patient ones you're welcome any time at our shop to give it a test drive or go to Radiant and check it there.
See- no secrets just 14 hour days and tons more to do...- what else is new?
 
OK Jacek, got it. Thanks for being open about it.

It's just that I think you have an interesting product but I also have been burned by buying products early (ahumm some wifi cube thing). Many of these products that are announced around here seem straight from engineering heaven only to find out later that actually it takes a lot of time to set up and maintain or even just work right.

So I come back to this thread every now and then for the past weeks and months and just don't get any more information. I still don't know what the price of this thing is and I still havent seen a video of a lens actually focussing, which is kind of the point of it all, no?

But well, I'll try to keep patient...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top