The industry has finally engaged...

[Waleed Al Shehhi]

Well, I don't think there's any way in the world RED would make a 2K camera.

Camera one is probably the base Scarlet Fixed with a 3K image sensor, around $8k complete excluding media.

Camera two would be the Scarlet interchangeable with 3K.

Camera three would be the replacement for EPIC-S. 4K, S35, maximum frame rate 60fps. His original price point was about $20k-25k minimally complete. (The $12k price was for the brain alone).

Toughest to focus on is Camera Three. Seems like it offers a bit too much compared to much more expensive EPIC-X. But Jim has promised us something revolutionary and it seems unlikely to be Scarlet 3K since we've known the basic specs on it for quite a while.

But perhaps finally making it available after all these years of development is revolutionary?

Only two days to find out ...

D

.... +1

 

[Lliam Worthington]

LIiam… I saw you got the RED post blues last time, I was going to post back to you and say don’t worry I’m sure you will wake up tomorrow all bright eyed and bush tailed…

I cannot take your praise…its NOT me…

Its

Todd Brisson, Walid, its Rob, its Victor, its drew, its Conrad, its Pete, and Even.. and and Lliam too.

I think this is a good case study of what an “environment” as such can draw out of someone.

I sense a sort of proof of concept for a “culture” shift in REDUSER.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a Members program was introduced….

I don’t know like $1000/year down… (maybe breaks for academic/non-profit members) or not…

The idea might be to separate “fan-boy” styled stroking and random “gibbling” from coherent and focused thinking, as an online environment (there’s a concept). I know that there was talk of Jim “leaving” REDUSER, at some point… It makes sense. The way it is now is nearly unsustainable. With the influx of much broader programs and a far larger number of users REDUSER become a mathematically intractable problem, i.e. people will not be able to get the information they need. I see much more tiered access and better structured resources in the near future as well as a slight culture shift and change in relationship between Jim Jannard and REDUSER forum. I don’t know how he sleeps at night.. my brain would be full of the “chatter” of a million posts… how do you not go insane??? (As we have demonstrated rather well…he, he).

Basically distilled… A good environment can bring out the best in people… How you measure or determine meritocratic status would be an interesting problem. Like the Grinch I have a wonderfull and awful idea, a wonderfully awful idea…

I guess JUST like a MEMBERS only club it would be by INVITATION ONLY. I.e. a certain number of members would recommend other members. That would be a terrific solution to the problem. It would substantially raise the quality of “thinking” and posting. The idea is that in the “member’s section” you have to be a member to post, but its open for everybody to read…? So it’s more about people who are doing things “networking” with others to share expertise and knowhow and perhaps start really good projects together. I have to admit that’s how I sort of originally hoped that Reduser would be… but not enough of that has happened. I think it takes a critical tipping point to achieve that; I think the Scarlet numbers out there will indeed enable that type of usefully-networked culture to emerge. By having a MEMBERS program then people who really need to bounce stuff off each other and start something new can. It’s a way of filtering and bringing much needed focus. I would like to see more of that, than a weird “relationship” with hundred’s of fan boys telling Jim how brilliant he is (he knows… so it’s not much value to him perhaps).

The opinion of your peers is much more valuable if there is real thinking, soul and doing that is behind that opinion. An understanding of the tech is important but over focusing on techy features can be rather destructive to more valuable (project based) higher level thinking.

Something has to be done…


My 3 cents…

Eric

Hi Eric,

Interesting post.

I believe that a version of this may exist in some form with "select" Epic owners getting their own threads or some such.

I'm not clear what my opinion is on this in truth. It makes sense to have an exclusive members club. Maybe there already is one ) And you only know when your in it ) But exclusivity of course brings it's own sets of issues and I'm not sure where those would stack up when measured against
putting up with trolling or overkill fawning - and I should note that I have made my own share of RED as well as a recent pro Jim post )

But I also take the point that traffic is bound to continue to increase significantly, and you are probably right that RED must be thinking that this place
could become less than what it has been for it's established users and professionals.

Still they moderate well. Certainly don't take any crap, yet allow constructive freedom of speech - though again, some users struggle at times

So Im just not sure where I'd sit with this.

Best Wishes

Lliam

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Well, I don't think there's any way in the world RED would make a 2K camera.

Camera one is probably the base Scarlet Fixed with a 3K image sensor, around $8k complete excluding media.

Camera two would be the Scarlet interchangeable with 3K.

Camera three would be the replacement for EPIC-S. 4K, S35, maximum frame rate 60fps. His original price point was about $20k-25k minimally complete. (The $12k price was for the brain alone).

Toughest to focus on is Camera Three. Seems like it offers a bit too much compared to much more expensive EPIC-X. But Jim has promised us something revolutionary and it seems unlikely to be Scarlet 3K since we've known the basic specs on it for quite a while.

But perhaps finally making it available after all these years of development is revolutionary?

Only two days to find out ...

D

Yes I agree David. And your post is after all these weeks of speculations, what would be almost exactly my best guess also.

less than two days to find out...

tick...
tick...

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

I guess JUST like a MEMBERS only club it would be by INVITATION ONLY. I.e. a certain number of members would recommend other members.
Eric

Ohdammititwhatwillmylifebeifimnotoneofthepriviledgedonestobeinvited!!!!!???!!!!

I guess I'll be an outsider.

Kinda like RED was/is. When RED becomes Canon, there'll be another RED hopefully for the eternal outsiders like myself.

 

[Eric Lange]

Hi Eric,

Interesting post.

I believe that a version of this may exist in some form with "select" Epic owners getting their own threads or some such.

I'm not clear what my opinion is on this in truth. It makes sense to have an exclusive members club. Maybe there already is one ) And you only know when your in it ) But exclusivity of course brings it's own sets of issues and I'm not sure where those would stack up when measured against
putting up with trolling or overkill fawning - and I should note that I have made my own share of RED as well as a recent pro Jim post )

But I also take the point that traffic is bound to continue to increase significantly, and you are probably right that RED must be thinking that this place
could become less than what it has been for it's established users and professionals.

Still they moderate well. Certainly don't take any crap, yet allow constructive freedom of speech - though again, some users struggle at times

So Im just not sure where I'd sit with this.

Best Wishes

Lliam

I share your ambivalence too. I have also been very guilty of all of the above in every extreme…. And of course I appreciate there is a very good chance of me being on the outside too (big time). I think better and more comprehensive on line resources should take care of all of this… and yes REDUSER had been surprisingly well managed.

One does not like to be elitist but I think a more aspirational mindset of whatever dimension might be a better fit perhaps…maybe there's a different angle to all of this?

Meanwhile I see what that big shiny ball of light in the sky is (I’m not sure I remember….).

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Richard ndumu]

anyway, i like what "Petter Jackson" said, he 's not a technical guy, he just like the texture of the red, and well i'm a bit like him
red one was all ready great,epic is crazy, so what ever happen, canon, red, arri, no matter how many pixel there is, the gold is to tell a story

 

[Bill Anderson]

Has it ever been announced that Scarlet will have HDRx option?
Apart from the resolution, RAW, I expect the DR to be another factor in Scarlet's success. Did I mention RAW?

Now, will the Canon camera(s) be RAW, baked in a poor codec, or... ?????
Interesting times.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Has it ever been announced that Scarlet will have HDRx option?
Apart from the resolution, RAW, I expect the DR to be another factor in Scarlet's success. Did I mention RAW?

Now, will the Canon camera(s) be RAW, baked in a poor codec, or... ?????
Interesting times.

Yes. Months ago Jim specifically said it was too important of an innovation to leave out and would add approximately $1000 to the price tag. Of course, anything can change but I don't think this is something that will.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Thanks Terry, I thought I might have dreamed that.
Now, who's gonna win the first Palme d'Or for Scarlet ((( :

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Ohdammititwhatwillmylifebeifimnotoneofthepriviledgedonestobeinvited!!!!!???!!!!

I guess I'll be an outsider.

Kinda like RED was/is. When RED becomes Canon, there'll be another RED hopefully for the eternal outsiders like myself.

You end up in the other user group for the the misfits, rebels and the trouble-makers. =)

 

[conrad gaunt]

Dude, now that I am more awake...

What you offer for rental is the deal of the century base price 200 Quid a day!!! A rental house that has the student in mind....Talk about accesibility....my head is a little clearer today...Conrad that's super impressive, YOU are the hero...

That's amazing...

I really should make more effort to find out what people are doing, i.e. their back story.

E

Maybe when I go to the Uk (next time) we should have a chat...

Ha, maybe not hero .. Anyway, thanks.. these are my new increased prices btw.. lets see if I have the hardness to implement them.

One of my clients made me the website (the second one he's done, without being asked)

People get confused if you ask them what they'd like to pay, so the website may help

Feel free to drop me a line if in the UK Eric, or anyone else

email: helloconradgaunt < hats > "gmail.com" (<- a spambot free jigsaw puzzle)

My problem is, if a red drive cable breaks during a shoot, I loose money. I've never really had to charge anyone for a breakage, because its normally just a cable..which eventually break anyway. Maybe i've got my fair:stupid ratio wrong.. we'll see


PS,

For me, a modular camera system is only useful if it has a "sensor module", or a sensor that can be upgraded, otherwise sensor upgrades (the most important upgrade generally speaking?) just got priced "stupid" (ie, new sensor = new brain = £$£$£$)

Thankfully, Red seem to have backtracked a little with the introduction of the "Red Dragon" epic upgrade..

..anyway, I made noise at the time the modular system arrived about this oversight (maybe I'm being generous there), but their decision reminded me of other decisions, that other people make on my behalf.. like, for example, all the laws the uk parliament quietly pass to help me, without my input ever (funny that)... which normally involve removing some of my basic freedoms or human rights (those they pretend to uphold, and often ones my grandfather thought he'd already fought for and won..normally to help protect me etc etc).. but actually just give me the right to get whacked in the face with a batton/CS gas/Pepper spray/Tasar etc, then go straight to jail when I open my mouth, or get extradited to American without judicial due process etc for dubious political reasons etc etc. Thats just a metaphor btw.

The point is, you can only really help someone if you really know what they want.. and really want to. Telling them something is for their benefit, whilst making their life more expensive.. is hard to swallow.. but some people are swallowers

 

[Thomas Church]

RED, it would be nice to get some support in South America.

São Paulo, Mexico City and Buenos Aires, the three largest capitals.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Tom Peters on innovation. I agree with a lot of this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AGTpu_i8sc

 

[Charlie Kuttner]

I love this stuff. So much. Apparently we have finally got the attention of "the big guys". Now the real fun begins. And the customer wins.

Upgrades. Prices that consumers can swallow. Japan, China and Germany vs. the USA. Love it.

We fully recognize that we are the underdogs in this fight. Just the way we want it.

LOL You're crazy



… in a good way

 

[Eric Lange]

Ha, maybe not hero .. Anyway, thanks.. these are my new increased prices btw.. lets see if I have the hardness to implement them.

One of my clients made me the website (the second one he's done, without being asked)

People get confused if you ask them what they'd like to pay, so the website may help

Feel free to drop me a line if in the UK Eric, or anyone else

email: helloconradgaunt < hats > "gmail.com" (<- a spambot free jigsaw puzzle)

My problem is, if a red drive cable breaks during a shoot, I loose money. I've never really had to charge anyone for a breakage, because its normally just a cable..which eventually break anyway. Maybe i've got my fair:stupid ratio wrong.. we'll see


PS,

For me, a modular camera system is only useful if it has a "sensor module", or a sensor that can be upgraded, otherwise sensor upgrades (the most important upgrade generally speaking?) just got priced "stupid" (ie, new sensor = new brain = £$£$£$)

Thankfully, Red seem to have backtracked a little with the introduction of the "Red Dragon" epic upgrade..

..anyway, I made noise at the time the modular system arrived about this oversight (maybe I'm being generous there), but their decision reminded me of other decisions, that other people make on my behalf.. like, for example, all the laws the uk parliament quietly pass to help me, without my input ever (funny that)... which normally involve removing some of my basic freedoms or human rights (those they pretend to uphold, and often ones my grandfather thought he'd already fought for and won..normally to help protect me etc etc).. but actually just give me the right to get whacked in the face with a batton/CS gas/Pepper spray/Tasar etc, then go straight to jail when I open my mouth, or get extradited to American without judicial due process etc for dubious political reasons etc etc. Thats just a metaphor btw.

The point is, you can only really help someone if you really know what they want.. and really want to. Telling them something is for their benefit, whilst making their life more expensive.. is hard to swallow.. but some people are swallowers

I hear you bro…. things developed in partnership are a win win and the cost is spread (less expensive for first party). In our case a stack of NDAs, some engineering face time and the scrounging of particular test footage.

Funny handshakes aside, a consortium might be the ticket, and Yup the "Nanny" state can be a real drag... something I know all too well!

E

 

[conrad gaunt]

I hear you bro…. things developed in partnership are a win win and the cost is spread (less expensive for first party). In our case a stack of NDAs, some engineering face time and the scrounging of particular test footage.

Funny handshakes aside, a consortium might be the ticket, and Yup the "Nanny" state can be a real drag... something I know all too well!

E

I understand half of that, in a kind of interlace pattern .. I understood the win bit.. yeah, the nanny state.. I always want to bite the teet :drool:

I think R1 footage, under-exposed enough is pretty darn good.. slightly easier done on an mx, but very natural. It doesn't make me think "go shoot a short conrad", it says goes shoot anything you feel like (which ironically never happens because of rentals, until Im numb from driving), I haven't always felt that way about an image.. but I'll hold out for something Monstro if I can.. if I can find some rubber money and stretch it :Chevy_anim:

Im going to click on consortium now, this better not be a trap , I think MFI are after me, even though I've never yet expressed an interest in buying a new sofa :sosp:

Ill risk it.. here goes..

 

[conrad gaunt]

consortium

/\
fake link

oh, it was just coloured text.. darn .. I'm going to try the wardrobe in the spare room instead..

 

[Eric Lange]

I understand half of that, in a kind of interlace pattern .. I understood the win bit.. yeah, the nanny state.. I always want to bite the teet :drool:

I think R1 footage, under-exposed enough is pretty darn good.. slightly easier done on an mx, but very natural. It doesn't make me think "go shoot a short conrad", it says goes shoot anything you feel like (which ironically never happens because of rentals, until Im numb from driving), I haven't always felt that way about an image.. but I'll hold out for something Monstro if I can.. if I can find some rubber money and stretch it :Chevy_anim:

Im going to click on consortium now, this better not be a trap , I think MFI are after me, even though I've never yet expressed an interest in buying a new sofa :sosp:

Ill risk it.. here goes..

He, he, he… (no I’m not messing with you)....

From our perspective it’s much more about nuts and bolts engineering, we do very very advanced and (right now) unusual work in s-3d/VR. For us we need to amp up precision by various means, and possibly control certain characteristics of the 3rd stage acquisition and processing/delivery. If there is some sort of means to control transfer and acquisition and talk to the camera from other devices a little bit…then that would be super helpful and RED Cameras might find their way into a whole plethora of other systems.

I don’t have an issue with the imagery. As I have said you don’t have to give away the crown jewels, but the keys to the castle can help a great deal with much better systems integration. That would be a terrific step forward I think.

I think the folks you help must be very lucky to have you. It must be a lot fun for you as you seem to really enjoy helping people get their RED on.

Awesome stuff Conrad,

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Víctor Corona Silva]

Well, it's my school's and I've just been shown they have a few red ones... Yes, it's mind blowing awesome. For most of Mexico, including the state of Jalisco, the time zone is GMT -6, and for the rest (Baja California, Sonora, Sinaloa, Nayarit and others) it is GMT - 7.

 

[Víctor Corona Silva]

Here the time is two hours ahead of that of California, know that for sure from a few relatives that live in Stockton. Right now it is 8:18 here, and 6:18 in California. Now that just made me notice the hour in my previous posts matches my time zone. Yikes!

Yes, I also hope scarlet is 4k on a 2/3 sensor, but only time will tell. Thats not so unrealistic, as the pixel size would for sure take down some dynamic range, then 2/3rds is not compatible with 35mm glass without major compromises.
With that in mind, it would be no epic for $8k. Hopefully.... Maybe Jim will speak early if we keep tempting him >