The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo...

[Roberto Lequeux]

Digital 4k delivery is a smart play. More will do it very soon.

Can't wait to get back and see it.

 

[Jannard]

Well spoken Michael...

Jim

 

[Christian Munoz D]

Michael,
Since I read the books and notes from the earlier explorers like Darwin, Livingston, Clark, etc, nobody inspired me like you just did with your post.
Thank you for being part of our little community.

 

[Kevin Marshall]

I have been to Regal in Silver Spring, MD, and AMC Tysons Corner in VA, and seen the "Presented in Sony 4k" logo every time.

However, all the theaters had weird stair stepping-ish things on text, like the opening titles. has anyone else noticed this. it looked like something was being played "double size," could clearly see pixels/squares that made up the text. Tthe theater in Tysons was an AMC "ETX" (enhanced theater experience). i got used to it and it looked amazing but there was something really weird and not cool happening the entire time. all the times i saw the movie, it was being projected from two projectors at once. are there any 4k theaters with just a single projector playing the movie, and what is up with that stair stepping? it reminded me of playing DOOM on a computer that wasn't fast enough back in the day, and you had to set the graphics on "double" size or "half res" or something...

Saw it at a Regal up in Frederick, MD, and didn't notice any stair-stepping (and I was fairly close). Also advertised as "Presented in Sony 4K." I haven't been to a 2K projection before, so I don't know if this was a 2K DCP on a 4K projector, or if it was the 4K DCP - but it looked damned good. Better than the 35mm projections I see there. And again I was pretty close (packed theater).

 

[Julian Banos]

My favorite visit at NAB was to see .red files playing. I ended up taking more time looking at the RedRay than anything else.
For the next weeks I realized the power of it, the revolution it can start. I am wondering when is this going to be deployed?

Michael C: Did you do any testing of .red files for GDT?

We need this technology to come full circle.

 

[Bruce Allen]

OK - just saw the movie. Great film! Fantastic job all around.

I saw it at the Arclight (upper theatre 10 - nice large one)... and it sure didn't look like a 4K DCI source though.

To be honest... I always find it really rather difficult to tell because with most shots the motion blur kinda obscures everything making it difficult to tell 4K from 2K - but there were some locked-off shots that just looked a bit soft to me.

Actually, I think the projector could have been out of focus? I would have rated the projection at around 900p of true resolution. Ah heck, have to see it again (oh man that's going to be a chore - NOT).

So - anyone verified that it is actually playing in true 4K from a true 4K DCI anywhere in LA?

And thank you Michael for confirming the niceness of EXR files - will feel free to bug the post production software folks without guilt

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[wshultz]

I saw the Sony 4K digital trailer tonight for the first time here in Vancouver, WA. Didn't realize I was in a 4K theater.
It looked great.

 

[Bruce Allen]

I saw the Sony 4K digital trailer tonight for the first time here in Vancouver, WA. Didn't realize I was in a 4K theater.
It looked great.

Agree it looked great - but there's a difference between having a 4K projector and having a 4K source. For example, you can watch 720p footage on your 1080p monitor at home. Another example: Blade Runner was widely publicized as a 4K restoration... but although they worked at 4K, the final files was a 2K DCI file... which was still 2K, even though I saw it on a 4K projector at the Landmark.

Soo... anyone know who is actually showing from a real 4K DCI source file? Guess I'll have to phone up the theatres... but I have to say I'm surprised that nobody bothered to publicize it if they are!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I only performed a small part of a very large process on Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. -So is the nature of DI, to which we provide a small, yet important and creative role that needs to blend well with all the work done up until that point.


But what makes this project an interesting case study for me is that it truly represents the cultivation of many years of theory, hope, development, experimentation and practice finally being put to the test. Perhaps many of you on this forum are like me in that we have to examine ideas on a theoretical level before a physical one. Do you realize that many of our beliefs and motivations for the future of digital cinema look like "hopes" to the outside world? In my experience, some revere our beliefs as unnecessary. Some make our predictions out to be inaccurate or unlikely. And many suggest the results behind these beliefs are imperceivable.


I never liked the phrase "to each his own." It's too passive for me. If I see someone making a poor choice, I'm going to say something and lovingly try to show them a better alternative. I don't like seeing people get burned, especially when ego or lack of available information are reasons. But what's interesting about that phrase as it relates to the issues of 4K and digital cinema is that more and more people are starting to agree. Thanks to the work of so many great people (with quite possibly the highest concentration of these people on this powerful message board), I believe we are finally about to start the last lap in a race we've been running for more than 10 years. I am just one among many who have dedicated their professional life to finding the best ways we could to improve and preserve motion pictures forever, and I took a rare moment this week to look back and realized we are well beyond the halfway point. We have come further than I thought and the future is really starting to show herself to us. But guess what? There is something more important than knowing we are almost finished with this long race: We are going to win!


4K is finally here. The last step in making this a reality is being able to take the access of ten thousand and give the access to 100 million. I find the importance of 4K exhibition to be of greater importance than the invention of 4K acquisition. If the message that Jim and his team put out 6 years ago was unnecessary, inaccurate, unlikely or imperceivable, the development of a 4K future would not have developed outside of RED. Understand that in order for RED's entire mission to succeed, it requires the adaptation of as many strangers to the subject as competitors. Beyond that, 3rd party companies from all over the world have to find sound ways to profit from 4K without RED's direct influence. And I believe that has finally happened on a massive scale. I believe that we are starting down a bridge that took many years to build and the whole community is going to cross it together. Some at the front and some at the back, but like Moses and the RED Sea, a little ways from now, we're all going to be on the other side and everything will have changed.


What this ultimately means is that we are all responsible for continuing to fuel this change with more conviction than ever so that it picks up momentum and rapidly matures. To do this, everyone needs to take a moment and consider the technical impact it has on your creative work and ensure you are prepared for what is going to be required of each of us in 2013. I cannot express how excited I am to finally see this happening, and hope everyone is able to take notice and realize how important you are to the success. Dragon Tattoo is a flagship that we can all get behind: a tool that can be used to educate and inspire. The request for 4K and 5K will now go up and each of you need to be able to answer the call and be able to deliver the answer.

I've written on my blog some notable theories and steps that allowed us to do Dragon Tattoo in 4K and nearly as fast as a 2K. My hope is to share information that will ultimately benefit us all, since we will need to be as prepared as we are united on this in 2012.

m

http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/

An entertaining read Michael, great wording on your post, I love it!


I share this passion like many here, and more then some here, Image quality for me is everything, so much so that has taken me an entire life to get were I am today, yet not having Produced my Movie,
even with with RED ONE I was just not happy in off, even so an incredible camera, were NOW with the EPIC and its 5K RAW files allowing for a TRUE 4K finish, with never sen before Detail, I finally set out to
also conclude my long life Journey and make my First Movie, and it will be in 4K!!


I look forward to the day were we don't have to insure ourselves that a particular Movie shot on Epic is actually been finished and projected at 4K, but safely enter any Movie Theater and with
confidence know that the Movie we are about to watch is shot, finished and projected in full 4K!!

In this I also devote myself to be part of this solution and continue to push forward to do my small part in this resolve to see it done!

 

[Steven Caesare]

4K in cinemas isn't equal.

Be aware of the difference between a Sony SXRD (reflective LCD) 4K projector and a Barco/Christie 4K DLP projector. The Sony will always be softer, particularly on a larger screens.

Of the big Cinema chains in the US, Regal and AMC will be Sony 4K, while Cinemark will have Barco 4K DLP projectors.

Smaller chains like Malco Theatres (323 screens at 30 locations) and SR Entertainment Group run Barco's.

Be careful with this assertion. DLP often appears "sharper", but there can be a lot of false detail with the sharp transition between the pixels as a result of the edges of the DLP mirrors... these are in essence a "square wave" transition from one pixel to the next, and a square wave is lots of false high-frequency detail.

Real nature isn't made up of harsh pixel tranitions. It's an analog world, and much like Red's philosophy of using proper low-pass filtering to digitally sample an analog image, smooth transitions in LCoS/SXRD devices may not "look" as sharp, but they often can be more "correct".

-sc

 

[Steven Caesare]

I'm very interested in this as well. I'm near the 4K Tyson's AMC that's been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I don't know if they are equipped to show 4K source files, or simply scale up the 2K DCPs....

For that matter, has it been conformed that this movie is being DISTRIBUTED in 4K DCP's?

-sc

 

[Patrick Grossien]

My hope is to share information that will ultimately benefit us all, since we will need to be as prepared as we are united on this in 2012.

m

Great speech Michael! Very well spoken!

Cheers to the future!
Patrick

 

[Detlev Eller]

...

What this ultimately means is that we are all responsible for continuing to fuel this change with more conviction than ever so that it picks up momentum and rapidly matures. To do this, everyone needs to take a moment and consider the technical impact it has on your creative work and ensure you are prepared for what is going to be required of each of us in 2013. I cannot express how excited I am to finally see this happening, and hope everyone is able to take notice and realize how important you are to the success. Dragon Tattoo is a flagship that we can all get behind: a tool that can be used to educate and inspire. The request for 4K and 5K will now go up and each of you need to be able to answer the call and be able to deliver the answer.

I've written on my blog some notable theories and steps that allowed us to do Dragon Tattoo in 4K and nearly as fast as a 2K. My hope is to share information that will ultimately benefit us all, since we will need to be as prepared as we are united on this in 2012.

http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/

Excellent ... (!)

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

but there were some locked-off shots that just looked a bit soft to me.

I am only speaking from an armchair, because I have not been to a cinema in a long time, but I think I know why it looked softer than you expected. Go the Michael Cioni's blog if you haven't already*:

http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/

Have a look a the CENTER-EXTRACTION FRAMING CHART and you'll see that the final pixel count is 4122x1718. That's still 4K, but it's only about 7Mpx. Or, the way I prefer to read it: 1,718 lines. EPIC's 5K output is 5120x2560, or 12Mpx, or 2,560 lines. To me that's too much padding. I suppose 1,718 lines is still a bit more than 250D 2-perf 35mm, but if you have 2,560 lines available to you, discarding 842 of them seems overkill.

EDIT: That's a loss of about 1/3 of resolution. Ouch.


But read the blog which will explain why they made their choices. Their reasons are 100% valid even though I think they discarded too much of the frame. All IMHO.

*A very intersting blog. Thank you, Michael.

 

[Bruce Allen]

I am only speaking from an armchair, because I have not been to a cinema in a long time, but I think I know why it looked softer than you expected. Go the Michael Cioni's blog if you haven't already*:

http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/

Have a look a the CENTER-EXTRACTION FRAMING CHART and you'll see that the final pixel count is 4122x1718. That's still 4K, but it's only about 7Mpx. Or, the way I prefer to read it: 1,718 lines. EPIC's 5K output is 5120x2560, or 12Mpx, or 2,560 lines. To me that's too much padding. I suppose 1,718 lines is still a bit more than 250D 2-perf 35mm, but if you have 2,560 lines available to you, discarding 842 of them seems overkill.

EDIT: That's a loss of about 1/3 of resolution. Ouch.


But read the blog which will explain why they made their choices. Their reasons are 100% valid even though I think they discarded too much of the frame. All IMHO.

*A very intersting blog. Thank you, Michael.

Karim, I don't want to dispute your points... but trust me that either the projection or the use of a 2K DCI was the limiting factor in my case IMHO.

It looked a heck of a lot softer than a 20% blowup from full-resolution RED footage.

Gonna just have to see it again somewhere else... again - anyone have confirmation of a 4K projector showing a 4K DCI in LA?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Phil Holland]

Arclight Hollywood. Screen 14 I believe it was.

Avoid 1, 2, 8, & 9; which are 2k.

 

[christopher witzke]

I only performed a small part of a very large process on Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. -So is the nature of DI, to which we provide a small, yet important and creative role that needs to blend well with all the work done up until that point.


But what makes this project an interesting case study for me is that it truly represents the cultivation of many years of theory, hope, development, experimentation and practice finally being put to the test. Perhaps many of you on this forum are like me in that we have to examine ideas on a theoretical level before a physical one. Do you realize that many of our beliefs and motivations for the future of digital cinema look like "hopes" to the outside world? In my experience, some revere our beliefs as unnecessary. Some make our predictions out to be inaccurate or unlikely. And many suggest the results behind these beliefs are imperceivable.


I never liked the phrase "to each his own." It's too passive for me. If I see someone making a poor choice, I'm going to say something and lovingly try to show them a better alternative. I don't like seeing people get burned, especially when ego or lack of available information are reasons. But what's interesting about that phrase as it relates to the issues of 4K and digital cinema is that more and more people are starting to agree. Thanks to the work of so many great people (with quite possibly the highest concentration of these people on this powerful message board), I believe we are finally about to start the last lap in a race we've been running for more than 10 years. I am just one among many who have dedicated their professional life to finding the best ways we could to improve and preserve motion pictures forever, and I took a rare moment this week to look back and realized we are well beyond the halfway point. We have come further than I thought and the future is really starting to show herself to us. But guess what? There is something more important than knowing we are almost finished with this long race: We are going to win!


4K is finally here. The last step in making this a reality is being able to take the access of ten thousand and give the access to 100 million. I find the importance of 4K exhibition to be of greater importance than the invention of 4K acquisition. If the message that Jim and his team put out 6 years ago was unnecessary, inaccurate, unlikely or imperceivable, the development of a 4K future would not have developed outside of RED. Understand that in order for RED's entire mission to succeed, it requires the adaptation of as many strangers to the subject as competitors. Beyond that, 3rd party companies from all over the world have to find sound ways to profit from 4K without RED's direct influence. And I believe that has finally happened on a massive scale. I believe that we are starting down a bridge that took many years to build and the whole community is going to cross it together. Some at the front and some at the back, but like Moses and the RED Sea, a little ways from now, we're all going to be on the other side and everything will have changed.


What this ultimately means is that we are all responsible for continuing to fuel this change with more conviction than ever so that it picks up momentum and rapidly matures. To do this, everyone needs to take a moment and consider the technical impact it has on your creative work and ensure you are prepared for what is going to be required of each of us in 2013. I cannot express how excited I am to finally see this happening, and hope everyone is able to take notice and realize how important you are to the success. Dragon Tattoo is a flagship that we can all get behind: a tool that can be used to educate and inspire. The request for 4K and 5K will now go up and each of you need to be able to answer the call and be able to deliver the answer.

I've written on my blog some notable theories and steps that allowed us to do Dragon Tattoo in 4K and nearly as fast as a 2K. My hope is to share information that will ultimately benefit us all, since we will need to be as prepared as we are united on this in 2012.

m

http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/

Wonderful Voice!

Inspiring - motivating - validating -

Thank you for being here!

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

For that matter, has it been conformed that this movie is being DISTRIBUTED in 4K DCP's?

-sc

at this point i would that has not .... it seems hard to believe that there is no trace online of any dock about it... no one in any theater seems to confirm etc....
Red did not say a word about it ...

so i guess sis a myth ...(hope not , but seems like it )

g

 

[Bud Anderson]

I talked to the manager of our local theater and he said the version they had was a 2K on a hard drive distributed by Technicolor (!). That was a Regal Cinema theater outfitted with Sony 4K projectors. I called Technicolor to see if there is some sort of list or something of where the 4K versions went in the US but no response just yet. Like everyone here, I am dying to see it in 4K.

So my question is this....if it was shot by Fincher on 4/5K and goes to a theater with a 4K projector, why are so many people seeing the 2K version? If the capability is there, why not use it? Does it have something to do with the number and cost of the hard drives containing the 55 terabytes that Michael mentions on his blog?

Anyone out there have direct experience with this?

And BTW great post Michael. Thanks for the unique perspective.

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

I called Technicolor to see if there is some sort of list or something of where the 4K versions went in the US but no response just yet. Like everyone here, I am dying to see it in 4K.

please let us know if they answer ..

ps: a 4K DCP version would no be 55 TB... (probably not even 1TB ...(it's Jpeg2000 compression )


at this point i think that there is no 4K version around ( if technicolor delivered a 2K to a Regal cinema that have Only 4K projectors .....)

g