The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

[Kip Evans]

Great pic! Nothing like living on the bottom of the sea. Thank you Matt for making the connection! It's time to plan another big adventure with all our RED gear!

 

[Tom Hamilton]

And here, a hero shot of all six Mission 31 Aquanauts;

[/URL]A002_C006_05305E by Red Sea Pictures, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Tom -- you gotta have an adjustment for lenses somewhere. If it's the camera, then the housing must grow in size to accommodate. A certain volume is necessary for any given lens. All trade offs considered, PE's are the best approach -- at least that we've found.

J-

I think, John, you are quite correct in that PE's are the most efficient way to align entrance pupils with dome port nodal points. But, with every new lens that comes on to the market, we are forced to use a combination of pre-existing PE's to approximate that adjustment. It always comes close, but never quite gets there. So unless you want to offer a machined PE, to micro specs, for every lens out there, past, present and future, at great cost to the end user, maybe the answer is an adjustment mechanism that can tweak that distance, in very small increments, in combination with an existing PE that gets it just right. That should mitigate any housing volume/buoyancy problems you mention.

Axial alignment is another story, what do you propose there? It is not enough to machine a camera saddle that locks the the lens/camera into precise alignment with the dome optical center, there are always minute errors in machining that come into play.

Maybe I am trending too much towards the perfectionist solution, who out there is going to notice small errors in edge distortion and chromatic aberration, especially in the underwater shot where color and subject are so completely foreign to the average topside citizen? Certainly not the man in the street. They trust what they see, and do not question it. Maybe it's time to bring Pawel back in to the discussion?

We all try harder for that perfect shot. Any imperfection, the pros will see it, and take note, I guess that is why we all talk here, ever striving to improve.

The housing folks are tasked with getting all of these tech measurements exactly right.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Tom -- you gotta have an adjustment for lenses somewhere. If it's the camera, then the housing must grow in size to accommodate. A certain volume is necessary for any given lens. All trade offs considered, PE's are the best approach -- at least that we've found.

I agree, port extenders are the most practical approach. The reason is mainly because once you start moving the camera, even a few millimeters, other basic controls have to move. For instance, even if most of your other controls were electronic,the epic requires you to hit the button on the right side to power up, if I'm not mistaken that's the only way to power the camera up. (I think the weapons now have a way to auto powerup when you supply voltage.)

I know on our housings the mounting plate has a continuous row of mounting holes so you could shift the camera to any position from the front of the housing to the rear in 12.5mm increments but then controls for power, trigger, and the two front programmable buttons wouldn't line up. We have made them with dual sets of power and trigger controls so you can use some extremely short superwide and fisheye lenses as well as the normal length lenses, but that's not really what Tom was talking about. And I think the issue would be the same for the Gates housings and certainly the nauticams that have all those controls for the side handle.

As a practical matter there really isn't much need for more than two or three lenses, particularly for open water work. For underwater work, a set of Canon 11-24L Rectilinear, 8-15L fisheye and 100L macro really can't be beat - even by high end cinema lenses. You could get by with 2 camera positions ideally set for the 11-24 and the fisheye. The macro would use a flat port and position isn't that critical. (And personally I wouldn't worry too much about the fisheye - I like to shoot rectilinear whenever possible and these days we have extremely high quality rectilinear superwides that work well with domes - some of the reason for people using fisheyes was to get the extreme wide angle and also tended to work better with domes compared to some of the rectilinear lenses of a few years ago but that has been somewhat obviated by both newer lenses like the 11-24 and the larger 8" domes.)

For the most part there are only two situations where you need a lot of lens/port flexibility

1) where the DP, director, or producer doesn't really know better and wants to use a longer focal length lens even though they would probably be better off with a wider lens. And in some of those cases you just have to go with it rather than try to argue them out of it.

2) Something like the Titanic with all those shots in the hallways and other flooded areas where you are in a waterproof housing but doing normal above water type of shots so need the different focal lengths and for those shoots I generally recommend them to go with a Gates as they have really done a good job in characterizing a lot of lenses and the proper ports and port extenders for them.

The advantages in color saturation and image clarity of using wide angles and getting closer to shoot through less water are generally so great that they offset most other considerations.

Maybe it's time to bring Pawel back in to the discussion?

Won't even go there ...

Except to point out that Gates already has a solution for using Nikonos lenses that are probably the closest thing to the precision you are seeking.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

DEEP WEAPON Upgrade details

DEEP WEAPON Upgrade details

I just posted details about the DEEP WEAPON Upgrade.

http://www.gateshousings.com/gates-news/deep-weapon-update/

Upgrades begin next week.

Big thanks (again) to the RED team for endless support of the underwater community. Sean Ruggeri in particular - you rock. And special genius mention to Mikael Lubtchansky for insight on the REDMOTE - DSMC² tether.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

DEEP ATOM 3D Housing For Sale

DEEP ATOM 3D Housing For Sale

Bob Cranston's 3D system DEEP ATOM is for sale. It includes *everything* for underwater 3D acquisition except cameras and lenses. Bob used the rig for several projects including his own California marine life production. IMHO, there is a clear difference between acquired 3D and converted, and Bob has some of the most remarkable underwater 3D ever captured.

Please spread the word. Anyone interested can PM me or reach us through the Gates website. http://www.gateshousings.com/contacts/

 

[Peter Lightowler]

Hi guys, I have a customer looking for a used Dragon/Gates combination.

If anyone is willing to sell, could you please contact me either through the forums here or via email at pete@duai.com.au

Cheers Pete.

 

[Nuno Sá]

Hi Guys,

The dreaded day of a client demanding macro soots has come ;-) I am wondering what some of you would recommend for a MX user with a Canon mount. I own the Canon 100mm 2.8 (really like but would like the flexibility of a zoom), as well as the Sigma 50mm (horrible AF but ok to use in MF). Any thoughts?

Thanks, Nuno.

 

[Matt Ferraro]

Hi Nuno,

Many of us used the Sigma 17-70 macro on the MX sensor. At 5K it vignettes a little on the wide end but it does give you a decent zoom range for close up work. For a complete macro package I have found using this lens in combination with a 100mm and a super macro converter to be a good setup, it also depends on your subject. I would be interested to hear what some of the other bubble blowers have had success with.

 

[Nuno Sá]

Thanks Matt, 17-70 sounds like a very extreme range of focal distances, but it would prove very useful if it does work, would that be used behind a flat port or a dome (guessing 17mm would only work behind a dome). I guess Nikon users are better of in macro with the 70-200 f/4.5, hoping to find a similar range for canon users.

Thanks, Nuno.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

The Nikon 70-180 is being used by the BBC for....well, you know the project, Nuno. I personally tested that lens at Blue Heron Bridge and -- in my considered opinion -- is among the best for underwater macro work. Problem is, they are not made anymore. You can find them on the used market for $1000-1500. Flat Port or Dome Port.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Hi Nuno,

Many of us used the Sigma 17-70 macro on the MX sensor. At 5K it vignettes a little on the wide end but it does give you a decent zoom range for close up work. For a complete macro package I have found using this lens in combination with a 100mm and a super macro converter to be a good setup, it also depends on your subject. I would be interested to hear what some of the other bubble blowers have had success with.

Has anyone tried the Canon 15-85mm? More interested in 5K on Dragon which should be covered since I believe it is slightly smaller than APS-C


If it doesn't vignette on 5K it might be a good solution for those situations where you want to go from reasonably wide to Macro on the same dive, presumably with a dome port and possibly/probably with a diopter for closer focus.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/647013-USA/Canon_3560B002_EF_S_15_85mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS.html

 

[Matt Ferraro]

Thanks Matt, 17-70 sounds like a very extreme range of focal distances, but it would prove very useful if it does work, would that be used behind a flat port or a dome (guessing 17mm would only work behind a dome). I guess Nikon users are better of in macro with the 70-200 f/4.5, hoping to find a similar range for canon users.

Thanks, Nuno.

Nuno,

I used it behind a dome and I have not tried it behind a flat port. I suspect you would loose the wide end of the lens though.

Matt

 

[Nuno Sá]

Thanks John I was meaning to email you for your opinion, but here it is ;-). Yes that is the Feedback I got. However it seems that as a Canon mount user for the Nikon 70-180 I would need to go for a Optitek mount or a EF to Nikon F adaptor with a iris gear, aswell as a long PE (PE343390E I believe). Also something like the 17-70 that can go from MCU to CU/ECU and then macro sounds very sexy, and would really make our life a lot easier for the subject we need to cover. Whats your thought on the Sigma 17-70?

 

[Nuno Sá]

Nuno,

I used it behind a dome and I have not tried it behind a flat port. I suspect you would loose the wide end of the lens though.

Matt

Thanks Matt, was that your main marco lens and recommendable?

All the best, Nuno

 

[Matt Ferraro]

It was my main all around lens. Allowed me to get basic establishing, mediums, and macro. I augmented that with the 105 (100 for Canon) giving me a little more working distance and to get my 1:1 shots. Then I used the Nauticam SMC to get beyond 1:1, a lot of patience and time with that one.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

I've not used the Sigma 17-70, Nuno, but field reports are all generally positive. You have a solid rationale for selecting it as a proper fit to your application.

Thanks John I was meaning to email you for your opinion, but here it is ;-). Yes that is the Feedback I got. However it seems that as a Canon mount user for the Nikon 70-180 I would need to go for a Optitek mount or a EF to Nikon F adaptor with a iris gear, aswell as a long PE (PE343390E I believe). Also something like the 17-70 that can go from MCU to CU/ECU and then macro sounds very sexy, and would really make our life a lot easier for the subject we need to cover. Whats your thought on the Sigma 17-70?

 

[Tom Hamilton]

[/URL]A007_C010_0326HV by Red Sea Pictures, on Flickr[/IMG]


There are so many great photographers out there, so much glass to choose from. My opinion, and my opinion only, legacy glass is what will stand out from the crowd. This is Zeiss Contax 60mm Makro, for example.

 

[Jon Shaw]

Nuno,

I have used the Sigma 17-70 lots, in fact it was my go to lens on the series Life on the Reef, MX 5k vignettes slightly but now with Dragon you can shoot 5.5K pretty good and I'll have to double check but I reckon 6K HD would be close. Weird thing with this lens is it vignettes more at the long end. I haven't used it in a while as all recent projects have been WA but its very useful to have in the bag.

 

[Jonathan Bird]

New User Introduction

New User Introduction

Hi Everyone,

I have been lurking for a while and I thought I would introduce myself. I'm an underwater guy based in New England. I produce Jonathan Bird's Blue World on public television, a family-friendly underwater science/adventure program which is also on YouTube. We shoot on more traditional EFP cameras for that show. Our underwater systems are Sony AX1 and AX100 prosumer 4K cameras in Gates housings.

Last year I produced Space School, the world's first fully digitally-filmed live-action fulldome film. It was my first project on the RED (Dragon). Unlike many projects shot with the Dragon, we actually needed the full sensor resolution. RED did a BTS about the project and you can see a "making of" short doc here and a trailer here.

We are starting production now on another giant screen film and have taken possession of our own Dragon, so that's cool. I'm actually super excited about the 8K Weapon. I think the sensor size and resolution is really in line with what we need for giant screen.

Jonathan