The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

[John J Ellerbrock]

Underwater Housing Comparison

Underwater Housing Comparison

Will,

I think a comparison of all EPIC housing offerings is a great idea. You have the opportunity to highlight the differences amongst the various manufacturer’s offerings.

Before I commit, however, I would like to see your plan, and the criteria to be evaluated. I suspect the forum members will have some valuable input as well.

John

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Do you have a sponsor Will? Many thousands of dollars in airfare, hotel, food and diving charges here, how would that be offset?

 

[Greg F]

My bad Greg. I'm breather guy too. Maybe I'm just too close to this conservation stuff to get a joke sometimes.

The most difficult part for me is the people who are just terrified of the sharks, yet I have all my fingers and toes. I do not understand the illogical fear that just runs rampant and then people want to destroy without even giving a thought. Not to say there has not been times that I have seriously been concerned when submerged with these creatures but thats a rarity.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Like the large dome on this Ryan. Did they figure out a good handle for it other than the bottom rails. Is it going to have a vacuum check device port installed also? HD-SDI out for surface monitor?

Frazier: (Ryan please correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm pretty sure that is the same dome (same glass from same manufacturer) as you have on your current housing as well as all of the glass domes we sold for Redone and Epic over the past three years.

As far as vacuum check and HD-SDI, no reason not to ask that question, but actually either one is a pretty easy installation for any decent camera tech on virtually any housing.

Cheapest way for HD-SDI is with a compression seal - just requires good quality cable and the right drill and tap, and the ability to put a couple BNC connectors on the cable. About $150 more expensive is with off the shelf pluggable underwater connectors, but still just drill, tap, and install the bulkhead connector. With the pluggable style you have to either send the cable to the connector manufacturer to have them install the cable connector or do a field splice (which isn't the greatest idea with fussy digital signals). It's hard to mark up cables and connectors enough to cover the shipping, logistics and inventory costs of keeping those "connectorized" cables on hand (in different lengths no less, which is probably why you don't see everybody listing them with their accessories. I'm a little jealous of John at Gates because he is only an inexpensive and quick one day UPS shipment from the major underwater connector manufacturers in Southern California .

In my case, since we have a clear acrylic backplate that is relatively inexpensive and easy to switch (just pop the 4 clamps) we normally just run the cable through a cable seal (standard rating to 100 psi/225 feet) in a spare backplate and pop it off and on when we need it.)

We have 200 foot lengths of high quality Belden SDI cable made up with a special thick neoprene coating for better sealing and cut/abrasion resistance. (Even with the best cable, they only rate it for about 200 feet of HD-SDI signal - you can probably push it but most people aren't monitoring that deep anyway. For really long distance applications you would go with extenders or fiber optics). This way it also lets us cut the cable to whatever length the customer needs and no splices, just run the cable through the compression seal and pop a BNC connector on both ends and you're done.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Without giving too much away on the subject of vacuum seal check port and HD-SDI out, we have chosen a modular approach and, we think, a more refined solution.

Each DeepX housing comes with a threaded hole, much like Mike described above, with one difference that the thread is precision machined and hard anodised preventing corrosion. The blanking cap is made out of precision machined titanium offering the ultimate reliability.

The blanking cap can be replaced with vacuum seal port, additional trigger switch, 8-way selector switch (to control internal monitor or other function), HD-SDI out, HDMI out, external monitor (compatible with Nauticam), magnetic switch and other accessories. The current DeepX has one port standard on left hand side of the housing body, no need for drilling or tapping. Additional ports can be added on the back plate, which is made from a special type of polycarbonate that has tensile strength about double of regular polycarbonate or acrylic.

BTW, we do not use acrylic or PVC because they can crack and break on impact or due to stress fracture. Polycarbonate does not break.

The signature series (not yet formally announced) will feature four universal ports on the side of the housing, which will offer all external cabling and additional trigger and switch options needed for dual DeepX beam splitter rig.

3Deep has 5 universal ports at the back, each of which can be customised and installed in the field to perform functions as required.

Our auxiliary connectors, switches and ports are much more than $150 each, though. We make them in-house to the highest precision from titanium alloys.

We believe it is the best solution. Extensive use of precision machined titanium sets a new standard in the industry and provides reliable and modular solution to what appears to be a common problem.

There is a reason why RED titanium lens mounts cost 3 - 4 times their aluminium counterparts. We made our best efforts to make our titanium components and housings affordable despite much higher manufacturing cost than plastic, stainless steel and aluminium components commonly used in the industry.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Will,

I think a comparison of all EPIC housing offerings is a great idea. You have the opportunity to highlight the differences amongst the various manufacturer’s offerings.

Before I commit, however, I would like to see your plan, and the criteria to be evaluated. I suspect the forum members will have some valuable input as well.

John

I'm with John, I'd like to see the plan. I think it's much more difficult to fairly and objectively evaluate something like underwater housings than something like lenses where you are only testing one component. Not only are there personal preferences but you have numerous possible configurations of lenses, batteries, monitors, etc. Do you choose one battery configuration? One type of lens? One monitor? That's not really fair to the housings that accept multiple configuration. And if you have multiple configuration possibilities, that requires a bit of tweaking for balance and buoyancy and if not done properly makes it look very bad. Who is responsible for that? I've had one of the most famous underwater photo reviewers of all time give AquaVideo an excellent review mostly because I took 10 minutes in the hotel pool to balance it nicely. And in another supposedly objective test, there was a lot of negativity because the reviewer didn't take 10 minutes to do balancing with their configuration, and I could give other examples.

In our case, we make a very solid, capable, reliable system that - in it's base configuration - sells for between $5000 and $20,000 less than others and if you stick to a few recommended (VERY GOOD) lenses (and mostly the same as end up getting used on the other systems) you can get extremely good results with maybe (not always) a little bit more effort in setup or understanding of how to use it. And with add-on ports and accessories or simply different configurations - that same base housing is one of the most flexible available. But which one should be evaluated? PVC or Aluminum? Manual cine-style lenses or manual SLR lenses or Electronic lenses with simple controls utilizing the buttons on Camera and LCD (which are standard on the base models) or more sophisticated electronic control using something like Jacek's Optitron which we can control with the same electronic control that we sold for the REDONE Birger mount 3 or 4 years ago? Or with the optional frontplate for Nikonos lenses that could simply attach to the front of the housing which isn't particularly hard to do and that I first proposed over 5 years ago.

I won't expect anyone here to trust my opinion, even though I have personally shot with at least 75 different movie and video cameras underwater - including at least 10 different highend broadcast types - since I could obviously be biased but I can tell you having watched Frazier Nivens over the past ten years or so shoot with Gates, AquaVideo, Light and Motion, etc. - and achieving outstanding results on almost every dive - it is mostly not about the housing, it's ABOUT THE SHOOTER.

Do you have a sponsor Will? Many thousands of dollars in airfare, hotel, food and diving charges here, how would that be offset?

And how do you objectively evaluate different systems with the varying conditions out in the wild? It would be easier to be more objective in a pool setting. It might make a lot more sense to do in conjunction with DEMA (the Dive industry trade show) where virtually all of the manufacturers display. It's in Orlando this year and plenty of pools around - If nothing right there we have a vacation home 75 miles away in sebring with a pool where we could comfortably setup, or there are also crystal clear springs with walk in access just an hour or so away and of course the Bahamas are an hour and a half away as well.


Not to be negative but also not sure why Kona makes much sense - it's generally fairly expensive and not known for particularly good diving.

And as far as travel:

flight from LA to KOA for Gates is about $800 and 6 hours. LA to NASSAU BAHAMAS (1 stop) is about $700 and 8 to 9 hours.

For us from MIAMI/Ft. Lauderdale its $1300 and 17 hours

From Montreal it's about $900 and 17 hours as well

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I'm with John, I'd like to see the plan. I think it's much more difficult to fairly and objectively evaluate something like underwater housings than something like lenses where you are only testing one component....

John and Mike bring many valid points, which I also raised privately with Will by email.

...For us from MIAMI/Ft. Lauderdale its $1300 and 17 hours...

What!? Only $1,300 and 17 hours!

Indeed, I raised this issue too.

 

[Will Keir]

Hey guys, if you have any questions or wanted to keep up to date on the UW Housing Epic tests jump on the official thread and we can field questions in one place.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...WATER-HOUSINGs-Comprenhensive-Test-amp-Review

 

[Will Keir]

I thought I'd teach my son how to swim in warm water. There are no sponsors, though I'm not opposed to one stepping in. As they say, it's the experience of a lifetime, a challenge and an adventure. I'll be there. I hope to bring a few more along for the ride.

Do you have a sponsor Will? Many thousands of dollars in airfare, hotel, food and diving charges here, how would that be offset?

 

[Will Keir]

Michael your always welcome to come to the tests to get your rig the way you want, or you could let us know how you'd like it and we'll take care of it. 10 minutes in the hotel pool it is. Do you put that in the instruction manual?

Who is responsible for that? I've had one of the most famous underwater photo reviewers of all time give AquaVideo an excellent review mostly because I took 10 minutes in the hotel pool to balance it nicely. And in another supposedly objective test, there was a lot of negativity because the reviewer didn't take 10 minutes to do balancing with their configuration

Put your best foot forward. Send whichever housing you want tested. The difference is only $2000. When I look at buying my own housing, 2k isn't going to steer me either way.

For lenses I believe we should have each builder select with lens they'd like us to use and also agree upon a "standard" lens for all housings to use. Each housing is different, some benefit from fisheye to counter refraction I believe while others can do without. It's up to you.

But which one should be evaluated? PVC or Aluminum? Manual cine-style lenses or manual SLR lenses or Electronic lenses with simple controls utilizing the buttons on Camera and LCD (which are standard on the base models) or more sophisticated electronic control using something like Jacek's Optitron which we can control with the same electronic control that we sold for the REDONE Birger mount 3 or 4 years ago? Or with the optional frontplate for Nikonos lenses that could simply attach to the front of the housing which isn't particularly hard to do and that I first proposed over 5 years ago.

Housing are going to have their differences, we know that. We are here to highlight them, their advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation.

it is mostly not about the housing, it's ABOUT THE SHOOTER.

I'm not here to do a bad job. This test is going to be the most comprehensive test of Epic Underwater Housings on the planet, I'm glad to do it. All you gotta do is FEDX your units to Hawaii.

April 1st, 2nd, and 3rd seem like good dates. That gives everyone time to pack up and get ready for NAB on the 7th.

Is one month a reasonable amount of time for you guys to get your units out to Hawaii?

 

[Mauricio Handler]

The tests need to have an operator for each one of the housings present- an operator that knows and understands how to use the housings inside out- sending them blind is not really beneficial to anybody.
This needs to be thought out a little more so each housing gets the most out of the tests and you can have questions answered and clarified on each
unit then and there on the spot.

I agree that hawaii may not be the most practical of places for these tests given the fact that as explained earlier,
more convenience and less expensive locations exist closer to the manufacturers themselves.

Food for thought.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

This is getting a bit ridiculous...

 

[James Killion]

Hammerheads & Housings

Hammerheads & Housings

Had some weather come in so here are some clips of some dirty water shooting and all the Gates Housings. Sorry for not showing the Money Clips but they went straight into the Bank!

 

[Ron Lagerlof]

Cool, Jim! Can I get R3Ds or PR4x4s of the shots of me from about 1:10 to 1:56? I have some stuff of you to pull together as well...
Ron

 

[Michael Hastings]

This is getting a bit ridiculous...

surprise, surprise

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Gentlemen, for what is worth,

I will testing all Epic housings for UnderwaterCinema.com in the next 4-6 weeks. I had meant to do it before December's end but could not get out of my work commitments. I will put the housings to a battery of tests, including:

- Balance, buoyancy & trim (attitude underwater, ballast/float requirements, maneuverability of use with one and two hands, etc, etc)
- Drag (behavior when moved through water column at different speeds)
- Integration as part of larger ecosystems (coupling with several light systems as well as mounting to scooter, feasibility of said integrations as well as ease of use in said configurations)
- Optical performance (ascertaining the housing options for exploiting 3 main types of lenses, fisheye, rectilinear and macro)
- Access to camera functions (ease of button interface, ergonomics of said interfaces, etc)
- Monitoring (versatility of use of available monitoring options)
- Heat dissipation (after 30 minutes continuous use, measure camera temperature and compare to recommended specs)
- Use under extreme conditions (usability of housing when wearing both heavy technical gear and freediving gear)
- Ease of assembly/disassembly (time spent on said procedures as well as how intuitive they are)
- Ease of storage (how small can they broken down for transport, etc)

And a few other things. Anything I may be skipping, please let me know. I will try to test housings that are used, not new, to get a feel for their relative durability as well as operator-performed improvements if any. Whenever this is not possible, I will contact the manufacturers for a loaner. I am debating whether to go out to sea for the tests, given how predictably bad the weather has been in South Florida, and how many times housings will need to be reopened, I will probably opt to use a diving tank in a pool complex in Ft. Lauderdale, which will allow me to probably finish the tests in 2-3 days tops. Again, I'm open to suggestions in terms of additional criteria.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I know Rudi has been working on his tests for awhile. This next month and a half is still not ideal but it will be easier to support Rudi's tests and I think he has things covered fairly well, so I think I will pass on the Kona version.

 

[ANDY BRANDY CASAGRANDE IV]

"GREAT HAMMERHEAD SHARK"

"GREAT HAMMERHEAD SHARK"

"GREAT HAMMERHEAD SHARK" - BAHAMAS - 5K RED EPIC @ 75fps © Andy Brandy Casagrande IV / www.ABC4EXPLORE.com
​

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Great shot Andy, nice diving with you.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Thought I'd share some of the Rouge details here, the ones that clearly show the Aquatica attention to detail, as applied to the Amphibico product. Much more to discover still.

First pic, the rotation lock that comes installed on all port extenders, in this case, the one I use for the Duclos 11-16, positive lock of the port-to-extender interface against any accidental or unintended rotation.

Second pic, bayonet port lock lever, as above, securely locks the bayonet dome port/extender combination to the housing.

Third pic, mentioned by a few guys early on as a possible issue, neatly solved here by the light baffle that ships standard with the housing. Semi-soft foam construction, can be cut to adapt to any size lens.

Spoke with the factory engineers yesterday, a specially designed seal check unit should be ready shortly, I will post details and pics as soon as I get them.

Cheers All

:beer: