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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Mark van Coller said:
I am new to the filming world so please understand if I show my ignorance. I come from the stills photo world where I have been happily shooting since the NikV with the amazing 15mm. People are shooting 5D's @20MP and D800's @37MP quite successfuly behind dome ports. What becomes very important is getting the correct extension ring length to match your lens. Also it is just a given that rectilinear lenses need bigger domes than fisheyes. I notice Gates only offer 2 different extension rings and I am not sure about Amphibico. I have been very happy with the resolution and sharpness shooting stills with my 5DMkiii and 16-35mm behind a 9" dome with the correct length extension ring. Is shooting moving pictures fundamentally different in this regard.
Mark
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Mark, welcome to Reduser.

Shooting motion pictures is similar to stills with one important exception: you don't have much control over the shutter speed (which is usually set fixed to 1/2 of the frame rate) and the amount of light that video lights provide is only a fraction of what you get with a strobe. This means that you may need to shoot at wider apertures than with stills.

This has some consequences because dome ports, due to image field curvature, do not perform well at wider apertures and need to be stopped down to f/8 - f/16 to obtain reasonable results.

For this and other reasons we developed DeepX that uses Nikonos lenses - the only optics able to out-resolve the Epic sensor. Even at f/2.8 the Nikonos 15mm resolved more than 4k on my optical bench. This is not possible with dome ports.
 
Hi Mark,

Currently Gates offers 6 extension rings for the Deep Epic/Scarlet.
The D800 is an amazing beast for u/w stills. It's also not bad at video either.
Cheers and welcome!
Michael
 
Hey Guys,
Networking like a dervish on LinkedIn, have been approached by a potential stock client in Korea, wants some underwater 4K stock. As yet a 3 to 5min HD showreel is requested.

Happy to act as a go between for the intro, sale.

PM or Email.

Cheers,
mark.
 
Rudi:

I believe that all of us manufacturers will be happy to buy such an optic from you if it is available at a reasonable cost that we can apply normal manufacturer markup and readily adapt it to our various housing styles. However, that is no easy task.

The advantage of the Nikonos 15 was that it was a specific optical correction design for a specific focal length for a specific lens for a specific camera that was selling in the thousands - at a time when both the dive market and underwater photography market were growing and the camera was at a consumer price point. Nowadays none of that is true.

I am told by a usually reliable source that at its peak the Nikonos sold about 16000 units per year which translated to about $5 million a year for Nikon. (and a great many were not actually used underwater - they were taken as weatherproof alternatives to regular SLRs.)

The dive market itself is shrinking, and high end housings are a really small niche market. GoPros and dSLRs are already eating into everybody's market share.

I suspect that if for example the next gen Nikon three to four thousand dollar camera can do 4K video, they may actually come out with a version of a digital Nikonos - as electronics make a lot of things simpler than sealing all of the mechanical stuff that went into the Nikonos RS - and that would probably knock all of us out of the game. There's also off the shelf 4K sensors now that could be integrated into a dedicated underwater camera by anyone willing to invest $250K TO $500K. And there's nothing to stop Sony, Canon or Pentax doing it either. In the early 80s Sony spent a million or so on making a housing, mainly so they could use it in an advertisement.

So the minimal market size plus the possibility of one of those dedicated cameras being introduced are big disincentives for us small companies to put time, effort, and money into something with a questionable return.

The better strategic play for me if you don't create that optic for us will be to revisit the Nikonos 15mm option once RED gives us that 8K or 9K 36mm x 24mm full frame sensor.
 
Michael Hastings said:
Looks like the Rouge setup wasn't focused.
Click to expand...

The three grabs you refer to, #1 Aquavideo setup, #2 and #3, Rob McDonald stills, SLR & housing unknown.

Please check facts before posting.
 
Tom Hamilton said:
The three grabs you refer to, #1 Aquavideo setup, #2 and #3, Rob McDonald stills, SLR & housing unknown..
Click to expand...


It would be great to see some 5k frame grabs from Aquavideo and the Rouge housings, Tom.
 
Michael,

You put it quite well, in fact, you nailed it. Were I to step off my ranter's shoes for a second and try to inhabit the uncomfortable skin of a manufacturer, yes, I'd have to agree that the risk appears to overweight the foreseen, thought not guaranteed, gains. So yeah man, screw it. We are a very small group, underwater shooters, and then, the ones that actually manage to get paid enough for their work to justify this as a fully functional business are probably a 5% of that already tiny group. Undertaking the work to design, and the not inconsiderable expense to build, a superior optic when you can be sure your customers will be in the tens, not the hundreds or the thousands, is a sure way to erase your family's financial stability or, worse, take your company to the brink of insolvency. I know. I've been there, a silly dreamer with the stupid perception that if the market would not accommodate my visions I would change the market. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. And I've put myself in that unenviable position not once, not even twice, but three times. Each of those ventures had incredible potential, and yet that potential was only matched by its catastrophic failure. But I'm still here man, and the day we get up in the morning without a dream, a cherished project, something that excites us and instead just go to work to make a penny, well, shite, that is not living. And before I keep sinking ever deeper into cliche quick sands, I will say that for far too long we've gone under the mantra that underwater optics are simply not as good and there's nothing we can do about it. So yes, I may sell very few of those optics, I probably will not recoup my investment, I may be beaten to the punch by some of the giants. So what? I'm tired of putting so much money, effort, time, sweat and tears into the best gear, the most exotic locations, the most sophisticated cameras, the best housings, scooters, rebreathers, lights, RGB diving computers, RED rockets, 128 GB RAM computers, shark skin wetsuits, blah, blah, blah, just to come home and lament soft corners, chromatic aberration and all that stuff just because, you know, it ain't worth the trouble, better to wait until somebody else does it. How has that worked out?

I'm tired of crappy images man, I may fail but, at least, I'll stop whining about it once I know I gave it a shot.
 
Well put, Rudi.

I used to say that this passion was cheaper than a psychiatrist, but I think I lost this argument long time ago...

Good luck with your exciting project and, if you ever need a hand to measure the results with Imatest, let me know. It is fully automated and repeatable process giving consistent results that can be easily analysed and compared.

Ok....where was I at? back to work...submersible beam splitter...:biggrin:
 

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Wise words Rudi, respect!
 
Yeah.....let's see if I can walk the walk as well as talk the talk...
 
Michael Maes said:
RED Johnny ;-)
Click to expand...

Nah---RED is terrific and opening up new roads in the digital realm. Certainly a game changer...but i mean mass sales and everyone has one or has to have one....like a cell phone, or wait an i-phone. Well, i've never owned and iphone or a cell that cost more than $20. I do now feel the need to own an iphone, but only for the app that 3ality has that integrates the Atom rig to it, in order to calibrate the cameras & lenses.
 
Hey Johnny, you know you could just use an iPod Touch. No need to have a full iPhone, unless you're just trying to justify a new iPhone purchase... I won't stop you - AAPL is heading back up ;-)

Also, a really cool lens app "pCAM Film+Digital Calculator" (but it costs more than your $20 phone)

Peace,
Ron
 
Johnny Friday said:
Nah---RED is terrific and opening up new roads in the digital realm. Certainly a game changer...but i mean mass sales and everyone has one or has to have one....like a cell phone, or wait an i-phone. Well, i've never owned and iphone or a cell that cost more than $20. I do now feel the need to own an iphone, but only for the app that 3ality has that integrates the Atom rig to it, in order to calibrate the cameras & lenses.
Click to expand...

Johnny,

You got to be teasing about the app to work the atom???
 
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