The First Komodo Out in the Wild

[Simon Becker]

- Can you say if it's one or two CFAST slots behind the door ? (I'm pretty sure it's one but hey, can't hurt to ask )

You tested ProGrade cards too? Got 2 of those and would be happy not to have the need to buy new cards immediately.

Also what makes Canon batteries smarter than the others? There are plenty out there that would have more mAh so it would help to increase the run time. What makes the canon ones better in your opinion?

You’ve tested native RF glass too? What are your favorite lens choices so far anyways?

You’ve got access to the control app for iOS yet? Would love to hear your feedback on that too! Thinking about an iPad mini or sth as a monitor.

Would love for you to provide us with some footage to play around with!

Anyways, I’m glad you’ve got the very first hatchling! Wouldn’t have wanted for anyone other than you getting your hands on the baby dragon first!

 

[yann LHENORET]

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@yann - You are correct. I haven't done full media burns yet, but on a 1TB Angelbird CFast 2.0 card I'm getting 1 hour of 6K 24p at HQ.

Thanks Phil.

 

[Marios Karageorgiou]

Hi Phil, new to the forum and really excited about Komodo. Can you please verify if it has RED Raw 16-bit like dsmc2 cameras?

 

[Gregory Karydis]

@yann - You are correct. I haven't done full media burns yet, but on a 1TB Angelbird CFast 2.0 card I'm getting 1 hour of 6K 24p at HQ.

Thanks for that Phil!
Going by your super useful framesToDataRate tool on PHFX, that puts Komodo's HQ at or around REDCODE RAW 3:1, heck maybe even closer to 2:1 since for 1 hour of 6K 24p 3:1 we only get 836GB.

Gotta love REDCODE!

 

[yann LHENORET]

This is how we all imagine Phil nerdy testing Komodo's OLPF/Color Science/DR/FR/GS/Res/Sens in his lab, right?

Is it close to reality Phil?

 

[Jason Henne]

Phil,
How about the startup time? What are we looking at right now?

 

[Remington Chase]

Phil,
How about the startup time? What are we looking at right now?

He may not be authorized to give out useful info yet as you would think it would take less then 24 hours to post some footage if you got the first camera, I think this is a marketing play.

 

[Phil Holland]

He may not be authorized to give out useful info yet as you would think it would take less then 24 hours to post some footage if you got the first camera, I think this is a marketing play.

Don't do drugs. Amidst this quarantine and currently a curfew due to riots (generally where I am they don't want people outside) I am also supporting my extended family and my father is in the hospital post a triple bypass. If you want shots of my backyard I can do that, but I'd rather create some insight and test the camera for myself, but at the moment it's hard to arrange a shoot anywhere amidst our current situation in our nation. I guarantee I tested more in 24 hours than most would ever do in an extended review even.

FYI. A whole bunch of cameras were shipped to the other first batchers. So you can clamp your conspiracy crap right there. You'll be seeing footage from me and all of the others shortly. The question is if you want crappy footage or good footage, well yeah. At the moment I can't even organize a shoot or really leave the house.

Phil, How about the startup time? What are we looking at right now?

Currently the boot up time is about 22 seconds. If this goes like the path of other RED cameras released, that boot up time will shrink as firmware and other code is optimized. I think DMSC2 was what, 45 seconds plus at some point? Now it's 20 something seconds too. Wouldn't be shocked if Komodo ends up booting much faster.

I have a list of tests I'm going through, like Monday is "battery burn day" to see which ones work the best. But some quicky answers.

Yes. It's 16-bit REDCODE RAW. IPP2 is on board and there's a surprise in there for you too which we'll talk about later.

@Andrew. Audio. Scratch mics are scratch mics. Only a 3.5mm jack to get sound in. I have a 3.5mm shotgun in a box somewhere, one of those smaller rode mics I think. I'll try that. I'll be piping audio into it today from a Sound Devices recorder. I'll echo Jarred's sentiment about XLRs on here. On the Komodo body itself there very literally isn't space for it. 3.5mm feed in is the best you can do. I personally and would always suggest an external recorder for great audio. I do wonder if an EXT breakout can be made with XLRs on there. Bare camera though, what you have is 3.5mm.

@Simon - The Canon batteries have chips in them to report battery capacity. The cheep ones are just cells, they power the thing on, but there's not two way communication. Oddly all my RF glass here at the moment is Manual glass, not sure RF is fully supported. EF is however and I can control Iris and all that. Found some fun rear of lens issues on the bloody speedbooster which sucks, looks like I might modify the lenses affected if I go that route. IOS app, not yet, but soon. Looking to dive in on that wireless monitoring.

@Christopher - I guess I can do a side-by-side with DSMC2, but it's significantly quieter. There are two fan modes, Adaptive and Quiet. I'm on Quiet and it is actually very Quiet.

I think RED will be releasing a "minimum card spec" for Komodo. They have the financial ability to literally test all the options. I suspect below 256GB capacities will be iffy due to write speed limitations. I'm using the media I tested that proved to be "best". I will say CFast cards got bloody hot. Haven't done a full long take roll yet, but bare in mind as heat increases as well as capacity fills CFast, CFexpress, and other similar media has some pretty gnarly hits. Generally speaking I think I'd aim at cards 256GB and up in capacity to help avoid most of that chaos. But personally I'd wait on hearing what's officially supported first.

 

[Mestizo Devon]

Sorry to hear about your father Phil, hopefully he will be turning wood in no time!

Yeah best to stay in right now, film what you can when you can and try to keep things balanced.

Oh and thanks for providing access to all of us!

 

[Phil Holland]

Whelp. Backyard it is.

And a good, good, good discovery. My first image posted from Komodo isn't sexy, but it is exciting:



Those of you who are RED owners or experienced with filming with RED cameras, and hell other cameras for that matter, are aware of the Deep Aperture Point Source Magenta Orbs. This occurs due to Infrared and internal reflections. In the RED world we have OLPFs, which have not truly just become Color Science Filters (Low Pass/AA is now in the Sensor Coverglass), to combat this. The best filter usually is the Skin Tone - Highlight Filter and Komodo's OLPF feels somewhat along the lines of that filter in terms of color reproduction and optics. Nice micro-contrast too.

However! It's a new OLPF entirely and combined with the Komodo sensor tech you will notice no array of magenta orbs. Not going to lie, I noticed it in a flashlight test yesterday, but today my jaw hit the ground. This one thing that has been the pain in the butt of many DPs, Colorists, and VFX artists has evolved into the image you see above.

That was captured with the Sigma 50mm T1.5 at T16 and I cranked the shutter to 1/4000th. No ND. Clean. No orbs. Happy Phil.

This is probably the biggest optical advancement in the RED world since Dragon fixed the IR chaos that plagued Mysterium-X. Better image quality.

And before you ask, I think this is a byproduct of the CSF, Sensor, and Board tech. Don't think it's as easy as just making a new OLPF, but if it is, yes please.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Whelp. Backyard it is.

And a good, good, good discovery. My first image posted from Komodo isn't sexy, but it is exciting:



Those of you who are RED owners or experienced with filming with RED cameras, and hell other cameras for that matter, are aware of the Deep Aperture Point Source Magenta Orbs. This occurs due to Infrared and internal reflections. In the RED world we have OLPFs, which have not truly just become Color Science Filters (Low Pass/AA is now in the Sensor Coverglass), to combat this. The best filter usually is the Skin Tone - Highlight Filter and Komodo's OLPF feels somewhat along the lines of that filter in terms of color reproduction and optics. Nice micro-contrast too.

However! It's a new OLPF entirely and combined with the Komodo sensor tech you will notice no array of magenta orbs. Not going to lie, I noticed it in a flashlight test yesterday, but today my jaw hit the ground. This one thing that has been the pain in the butt of many DPs, Colorists, and VFX artists has evolved into the image you see above.

That was captured with the Sigma 50mm T1.5 at T16 and I cranked the shutter to 1/4000th. No ND. Clean. No orbs. Happy Phil.

This is probably the biggest optical advancement in the RED world since Dragon fixed the IR chaos that plagued Mysterium-X. Better image quality.

And before you ask, I think this is a byproduct of the CSF, Sensor, and Board tech. Don't think it's as easy as just making a new OLPF, but if it is, yes please.

Very cool. Thanks for the updates Phil.

 

[Remington Chase]

There we go thanks for the legit info. BTW you're a actual active member of the media and are not subject to the curfew and with some of the best gear in the world and a incredible moment in time you need to get out the and capture it as every reduser should.

Every dip shit is shooting this on their phones but we need real footage and we will pay for it.

 

[Matt Beardsley]

No orbs! Awesome discovery, Phil.. agreed that's a big step forward

 

[Luke Marcus Rosen]

There we go thanks for the legit info. BTW you're a actual active member of the media and are not subject to the curfew and with some of the best gear in the world and a incredible moment in time you need to get out the and capture it as every reduser should.

Every dip shit is shooting this on their phones but we need real footage and we will pay for it.

Agreed. I was out in NYC Union Square shooting on my iphone xs. While I was impressed with the stabilization even when zoomed, I need to get my paws on Komodo.

 

[David Rasberry]

Thanks for the shot Phil. It may not be great art, but it does show a lot of potential from Komodo. Highlight and specular source handling looks exceptional from the way the sun and cloud are rendered. Frankly amazed at the retention of foliage detail surrounding the sun.

 

[Phil Holland]

Problem with me filming the crowds is the shear risk of Covid-19 still unfortunately. Every trip to the hospital they do the 15 and 45 minute Covid-19 test, swab you deep in your nasal cavity. My priority at the moment is to stay healthy if my father needs me. Under normal conditions I would very much be out there capturing this moment in history.

Anyways.

More actual information. REDCODE RAW. The astute viewers have notices within my images and Jarred's 'gram'n we are looking at HQ and MQ. And I believe an LQ is planned. RED's been the victim of "some" over complicated concepts to a degree and having REDCODE RAW being able to go from 2:1 through 22:1 has been somewhat one of those. I mean, that's 20 settings.

Generally speaking the best way to work is always at the lowest possible compression ratio and people have discovered things that work for them. Like 8K 10:1 for a 4K finish and all that. More or less instead of 20 settings this will be simplified to 3, which is nice inside a camera like Komodo.

You'll have some flexibility, but nothing too complicated. For the curious on DSMC2 Monstro 8K VV I shoot 8K 24fps 5:1 and when overcranked to 60fps 12:1. I don't think I've filmed beyond 12:1 in I don't know, probably the entirety of DSMC2 existing really. I mean one of it's strengths was/is meatier data rates. It becomes more important as you get closer to your output resolution, like 4K for 4K should always in my opinion be done at the lowest compression ratio. It's clear RED's looking to simplify things. I'm on board for it and think it's a good move.

I suspect I won't be moving from HQ much with Komodo as the 6K data rates are very reasonable, but if I needed a longer roll time perhaps. I'm using chunky 1TB cards though.

But here's a scoop and I'm pretty sure Jarred hasn't dropped this nugget yet:




Yep. ProRes is in there. In HQ and 422 for both 4K and 2K resolutions. I'll dig into it a bit, but it looks like Komodo properly scales the footage to the appropriate delivery res. Nice for fast turnaround work. I prefer the REDCODE RAW Workflow, but when you need to be super damn fast and deliver right then and there, here you go. It is an either or situation, so you pick REDCODE RAW or ProRes and go from there.

Thoughts while I'm eating dinner.

Some of what's on my mind is just how far tech has come on a camera like this, can't stress enough how tiny this is. And this is pretty damn early on really in the Komodo journey. RED has an active development team, engineers, and programmers. I'm betting there's stuff I'm not even thinking off that will jump into firmware eventually. Even the touch screen opens up some new possibilities. So far it appears RED's put a lot of effort on image quality, as they should as a digital cinema camera company. I'm doing lighting and low light tests tonight to see where all that lands, but I'm already impressed for a camera that hits this general tier. More people will have it very shortly and start uncovering the goodness too. I've spent most of my time so far testing the camera and getting to know it rather deeply. This is what I do with every camera really. Still no noise reduction on board, which is good. You can see it in the quality of the pixel information, which is important to some of "us". Chromatic Noise Reduction in RCX is nice when you want to dance that dance and there's no performance hit there.

 

[Remington Chase]

I did not know 1tb was out for Cfast 2, I can't find that. What do you think about this camera being in a gimbal on a helicopter? I would think size, weight and global shutter would all be good things with this hooked up to a Canon 50-1000.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Problem with me filming the crowds is the shear risk of Covid-19 still unfortunately. Every trip to the hospital they do the 15 and 45 minute Covid-19 test, swab you deep in your nasal cavity. My priority at the moment is to stay healthy if my father needs me. Under normal conditions I would very much be out there capturing this moment in history.

Anyways.

More actual information. REDCODE RAW. The astute viewers have notices within my images and Jarred's 'gram'n we are looking at HQ and MQ. And I believe an LQ is planned. RED's been the victim of "some" over complicated concepts to a degree and having REDCODE RAW being able to go from 2:1 through 22:1 has been somewhat one of those. I mean, that's 20 settings.

Generally speaking the best way to work is always at the lowest possible compression ratio and people have discovered things that work for them. Like 8K 10:1 for a 4K finish and all that. More or less instead of 20 settings this will be simplified to 3, which is nice inside a camera like Komodo.

You'll have some flexibility, but nothing too complicated. For the curious on DSMC2 Monstro 8K VV I shoot 8K 24fps 5:1 and when overcranked to 60fps 12:1. I don't think I've filmed beyond 12:1 in I don't know, probably the entirety of DSMC2 existing really. I mean one of it's strengths was/is meatier data rates. It becomes more important as you get closer to your output resolution, like 4K for 4K should always in my opinion be done at the lowest compression ratio. It's clear RED's looking to simplify things. I'm on board for it and think it's a good move.

I suspect I won't be moving from HQ much with Komodo as the 6K data rates are very reasonable, but if I needed a longer roll time perhaps. I'm using chunky 1TB cards though.

But here's a scoop and I'm pretty sure Jarred hasn't dropped this nugget yet:




Yep. ProRes is in there. In HQ and 422 for both 4K and 2K resolutions. I'll dig into it a bit, but it looks like Komodo properly scales the footage to the appropriate delivery res. Nice for fast turnaround work. I prefer the REDCODE RAW Workflow, but when you need to be super damn fast and deliver right then and there, here you go. It is an either or situation, so you pick REDCODE RAW or ProRes and go from there.

Thoughts while I'm eating dinner.

Some of what's on my mind is just how far tech has come on a camera like this, can't stress enough how tiny this is. And this is pretty damn early on really in the Komodo journey. RED has an active development team, engineers, and programmers. I'm betting there's stuff I'm not even thinking off that will jump into firmware eventually. Even the touch screen opens up some new possibilities. So far it appears RED's put a lot of effort on image quality, as they should as a digital cinema camera company. I'm doing lighting and low light tests tonight to see where all that lands, but I'm already impressed for a camera that hits this general tier. More people will have it very shortly and start uncovering the goodness too. I've spent most of my time so far testing the camera and getting to know it rather deeply. This is what I do with every camera really. Still no noise reduction on board, which is good. You can see it in the quality of the pixel information, which is important to some of "us". Chromatic Noise Reduction in RCX is nice when you want to dance that dance and there's no performance hit there.

Huge thanks for those infos Phil.
I'm willing to bet (a coffee ) that Redcode HQ is roughly 2:1 or 3:1, MQ 6:1 and LQ will be 12:1.

I did not know 1tb was out for Cfast 2, I can't find that. What do you think about this camera being in a gimbal on a helicopter? I would think size, weight and global shutter would all be good things with this hooked up to a Canon 50-1000.

Angelbird, among others, makes a 1TB card : https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1452851-REG/angelbird_avp1tbcf_av_pro_cf_1tb.html ;-)

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Phil, thank you for this thread. I know that what you do is a thankless task sometimes. After reading and watching so many gear reviews, I understand that it's not as easy as readers think it is.

Still no noise reduction on board, which is good. You can see it in the quality of the pixel information, which is important to some of "us".

Is this why the shadows look so dirty in the frame you posted? Man, they are DIRTY. ;-)

 

[Dmitry Shijan]

Can you test how many stops is it possible to bring back from underexposed source?
Something like 3-4 stops underexposed, or extreme 6 stops underexposed test like this: